Cowboys offered Von Miller the Gregory deal

stiletto

stiletto

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The "WE LIKE OUR GUYS plus a couple of low tier plug-ins" mantra is an abject failure. Need to see at least one or two holes upgraded with a higher priced guy to better the overall talent. Every team does it. They keep doing the same thing over and over and it has not worked in like decades. No reason to think it is going to get better. I like that they are trying to build a team overall with the draft, etc but I think they are going overboard in that mindset.
 
Hawkeye0202

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Sydla said:
They can't release him before March 2024. Yes, they would avoid making the $6.4 million of his 2024 guaranteed but they already guaranteed the first $10 million of his 2024 salary at signing. They'd have to take massive dead money hit if they cut him in March 2024. At signing, the guarantees included his signing bonus, 2022 salary, 2023 salary and $10 million of his 2024 salary + the $13.6 million roster bonus paid in Year 2.

His contract is roughly 3 years, $52 million. You can't really compare the deals or say it's this versus Gregory's $14 million because we don't know the details of Gregory's deal.
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It appears they are prepared to take the cap hit if necessary .........notice it drops 50% after the first 2 years of his contract.
 

Sydla

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Hawkeye0202 said:
It appears they are prepared to take the cap hit if necessary .........notice it drops 50% after the first 2 years of his contract.
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It drops because of that massive roster bonus to be paid in 2023 (that is also guaranteed). That roster bonus isn't a prorated bonus so it's not spread out over the remaining life of the contract like a signing bonus is.

Miller would have to really suck for them to pull the rip cord after two years because it does nothing for them from a cap perspective. They actually lose a bit of cap space if they cut him to save the $6.4 million in guaranteed salary in 2024.
 
Hawkeye0202

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Sydla said:
If you want to look at it that way but the Bills aren't cutting him given the dead money hit.

Read the bullet point right above the bullet point about the $6.4 million. $10 million of that 2024 salary was guaranteed AT SIGNING. So if you cut him in March of 2024, sure, you don't have to guarantee $6.4 million of his 2024 salary but you still have to pay him the $10 million.

That's why if released in March 2024, they'd lose $600K in cap space (because of a $21 million+ dead money hit). He's going to play out three years in Buffalo unless traded or he agrees to a pay cut at some point.
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True but if they had that much confidence in getting three quality years of service, why do you need an out? Why not include the $6.4M guarantee
in the 3rd year also.
 

kskboys

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Von Miller has very little gas left in the tank. He needs to be where he can be more of a part time player, so he can continue to be explosive. He can be the difference maker in BUFF, unless they play him too much.

Von Miller made no sense for us, as we are not one rotational pass rusher away. Buff is. He could be the difference in BUFF. Wouldn't be an out there conclusion to say that BUFF beat KC last year in playoffs w/ Von, as they just needed a little more D, a little more up front disruption. Cincy beat KC specifically because they disrupted the pocket in the 2nd half, allowing Burrows amazing comeback.
 
Flamma

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Sydla

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kskboys said:
Von Miller has very little gas left in the tank. He needs to be where he can be more of a part time player, so he can continue to be explosive. He can be the difference maker in BUFF, unless they play him too much.

Von Miller made no sense for us, as we are not one rotational pass rusher away. Buff is. He could be the difference in BUFF. Wouldn't be an out there conclusion to say that BUFF beat KC last year in playoffs w/ Von, as they just needed a little more D, a little more up front disruption. Cincy beat KC specifically because they disrupted the pocket in the 2nd half, allowing Burrows amazing comeback.
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He had 10 sacks last year combined for two teams and played over 750 snaps. The notion that's he basically gassed and has nothing left is preposterous.
 

Sydla

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Hawkeye0202 said:
True but if they had that much confidence in getting three quality years of service, why do you need an out? Why not include the $6.4M guarantee
in the 3rd year also.
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It's not really an out. An out is when a team can get real cap space relief without shoving dead money into a future season. That wouldn't happen if they cut him in March 2024.

One other thing, look at timing of payments. The cash outlays. The Bills are paying that $10 million in Year 3 and they have to account for that in Year 3. So I am not sure how one can say it's just a two year deal when the contract requires a cash payment to Miller in Year 3 AND a cap charge in Year 3 (and maybe beyond if they June 1 designate him).

It's a 3 year contract for $52 million (or $46 million if you really want to haggle over the saved $6 million in guaranteed money in 2024).
 

kskboys

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Sydla said:
He had 10 sacks last year combined for two teams and played over 750 snaps. The notion that's he basically gassed and has nothing left is preposterous.
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Syds. I said nothing of the sort and you know it. I don't get into this polarized mess, and you know that also.

As players get older, they can still be effective, but will lose effectiveness if too many snaps are played. You know that also. Is Von Miller at this point? Most likely yes, at the age of 33 a dropoff is imminent. Is he one of the rare exceptions that can play full time snaps at his age? Unlikely, but it could happen. Might have one more full time year in him.
 

Sydla

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kskboys said:
Syds. I said nothing of the sort and you know it. I don't get into this polarized mess, and you know that also.

As players get older, they can still be effective, but will lose effectiveness if too many snaps are played. You know that also. Is Von Miller at this point? Most likely yes, at the age of 33 a dropoff is imminent. Is he one of the rare exceptions that can play full time snaps at his age? Unlikely, but it could happen. Might have one more full time year in him.
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You said this:

Von Miller has very little gas left in the tank. He needs to be where he can be more of a part time player, so he can continue to be explosive. He can be the difference maker in BUFF, unless they play him too much.
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That's preposterous. He had 10 sacks last year and played 837 snaps. He's played over 800 snaps every year for the past 7 years (accounting for close to 80% of defensive snaps in all those years). He's not a part time player and has not been a part time player. He's shown little sign of decline to the point where you can conclude he's got very little left in the tank and needs to become a situational, part time player.

There is nothing in his career right now that woudl indicate, that at best, he only has one year left in him. He has no injury history, he's not shown any real decline in play, teams haven't been protecting him by dropping his snap counts.
 
JonesBoys

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It was a honest offer. Let some other team like Buffalo go after a super bowl. We just like to give honest offers because the cap is a real thing you know.
 
Hawkeye0202

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Sydla said:
It's not really an out. An out is when a team can get real cap space relief without shoving dead money into a future season. That wouldn't happen if they cut him in March 2024.

One other thing, look at timing of payments. The cash outlays. The Bills are paying that $10 million in Year 3 and they have to account for that in Year 3. So I am not sure how one can say it's just a two year deal when the contract requires a cash payment to Miller in Year 3 AND a cap charge in Year 3 (and maybe beyond if they June 1 designate him).

It's a 3 year contract for $52 million (or $46 million if you really want to haggle over the saved $6 million in guaranteed money in 2024).
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Whatever....the bottom line is they can avoid paying him $6.4M of his guaranteed money if he's not on the roster in March 2024. The clause is there for a reason. $45M guaranteed at the signing and $6.4 before the start of the 3rd season.

It's 3 years $51M only if he plays 3 years, otherwise 2 years $45M.........BTW, where are you getting your number from?


https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/von-miller-7717/
 

Sydla

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Hawkeye0202 said:
Whatever....the bottom line is they can avoid paying him $6.4M of his guaranteed money if he's not on the roster in March 2024. The clause is there for a reason. $45M guaranteed at the signing and $6.4 before the start of the 3rd season.

It's 3 years $51M only if he plays 3 years, otherwise 2 years $45M.........BTW, where are you getting your number from?


https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/von-miller-7717/
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What number? $52 million? I was just rounding it quickly. It could be $51 million.
 
TwentyOne

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America's Cowboy said:
Micah Parsons
Sam Williams
Dorance Armstrong
Chauncey Golston
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- The von Miller deal was a topic before the draft. So he wouldnt have taken snaps from Williams just because we wouldnt have drafted him.
- If we would have signed Miller we would have cut LVE. Miller also would have played DE for us. He never would have taken snaps from Micah away.
- Armstrong and Golston are backup material, rotational players at best. No Pro Bowl starter stops JAGs from progressing.
 
Jstopper

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CowboysZone DIEHARD Fan
jwooten15 said:
And we wonder why Dallas hasn't had success in a quarter century.

Tight wad Stephen is so inept that he thought the Gregory deal was acceptable for one of the top edge rushers of the last decade.

The front office DRASTICALLY overestimates the appeal and allure of being a Cowboy. As if the players should accept an insulting offer just because they'll get to wear a star on their helmet.

This organization is a joke.
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you sound ridiculous. Idc what Miller was in his past he’s 33 years old. 14M a year at his age is damn sure a good deal. You would have signed him to a horrible deal glad you’re not the GM
 
Fire407

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Von was good last season, but remember he was playing next to Aaron Donald who was getting double teamed on almost every play. I don't think Von will be as productive this year
 
glimmerman

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The gregory deal still irks me. We gave the same offer and he turned it down and wanted to leave after JJ kept him relevant..
 
TequilaCowboy

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G2 said:
So is the front office supposed to be frugal with older player salaries or nah?
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Yeah, i have to side with the FO on this one. We have some younguns mixed with some vets already at DE. Paying top money for Von would not have been worth it at his age. Save it for the big contracts coming next year.
 
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