Is Kellen Moore the Real Problem on Offense?

CowboyRoy · Jul 13, 2022

TwoDeep3 said:
We have all witnessed the struggle this team has toward the end of the season in recent years. While there will be people making their usual comments about Dak - and I challenge you to not and actually consider the question. There are contributing factors which cannot be answered by pointing at the QB.

Poor offensive line play
Injury
The wrong personnel being used

**There are those who suggest this team feasts on the under .500 teams solely. Defense has a hand in the final score. So this question(s) does ignore the defense and focus on offense, and I think, specifically Moore.

My opinion is the major factor of the offense stalling as the season progresses is Moore. It appears to me he gets stuck on plays - the WR screen just drives me crazy when you see it four times a half. And perhaps he is so married to his game plan he can't shift gears and make in game adjustments. All the clever things he does at times wander off his playbook page as he gets mired in a rut of a hand full of sets and plays.

Do you think he calls plays to the strength of his skill players?
Why doesn't Lamb fit the slant route to a Tee? And yet when was the last time you saw that with this team?

With two running backs, where is the clever play caller who gets both of them on the field at one time?
Fact is, where is the boy genius who devises a play that forces the defense to call a time out because they don't have the correct personnel?

When teams respond with defensive changes, have you seen Moore do anything to change his offense and take advantage of a defense?

I could be wrong about this, and expect the usual suspects will litter this thread with nonsense instead of taking the premise seriously.

But for those who actually like talking about the team and the particulars, and not just Dak hate and Zeke hate, what say you?

That was nothing more than a critique of Moore. Which was mostly accurate. But he is NOT the main issue with the offense the 2nd half of the year. And this has been beaten to death over and over again.

The #1 issue with the offense last year was the Oline went in the toilet. It was certainly a combo of things, but that was the #1 issue. Between poor blocking in the run, pass game and penalties the offense was inconsistent.

Here is my list in order of the biggest issues to the smallest with the offense last year:

1. Oline injuries and shuffling, penalties, poor blocking
2. Run game tanking, Zeke injury, related to poor line blocking
3. Moore' inability to adjust and to sit Zeke or find a prominent role for Pollard
4. Various injuries to the WR's missing game, Cooper 2, Lamb 1.5, Gallup 6 games
5. Dak's calf injury

RomoIsGod · Jul 13, 2022

They had the number one scoring offense in the league.

CowboyRoy · Jul 13, 2022

Oz-of-Cowboy-Country said:
It's almost as if he has no plays that can beat the blitz. Teams started blitzing us a lot more toward the end of the season. And that delayed blitz killed us a lot. Dak could just audible to a run and run away from the blitz. But every time they blitz he wants to keep the back in instead of a quick toss to the back in the flat.

Zeke and Pollard were hurt and our rushing attack died because of that. So when they weren't blitzing us they'd just fall back in coverage. That two deep shell with the linebackers playing zone gave us some headaches also. And that's when Shultz picked up the slack, because Dak couldn't get it to the wideouts anymore.

So yes there are definitely some problems with Moore. When the run game isn't working he gets conservative as heck. And I'm tired of us settling for field goals from inside the 10. So he needs to run more misdirection plays around the goal line.

20% of the posters on this site could do a better job than that yahoo.

Buddy, why do you think Dak or Moore keeps in the RB? Because the line couldnt block. The back is kept in to help the line block. IF the Cowboys had trouble with the blitz it was picking up the blitz. Dak has consistently been one of the best QB's if not the best at beating the blitz in the NFL. That is a statistical fact. But the ONL way a QB can do that is if the line actually picks up the blitz and stalls it.

Now I definitely have wondered at times late last year why the didnt just have a back flare out quick into the flat for a quick pass to try and take advantage of that. But Zeke really isnt the back for that.

CowboyRoy · Jul 13, 2022

Oz-of-Cowboy-Country said:
It's almost as if he has no plays that can beat the blitz. Teams started blitzing us a lot more toward the end of the season. And that delayed blitz killed us a lot. Dak could just audible to a run and run away from the blitz. But every time they blitz he wants to keep the back in instead of a quick toss to the back in the flat.

Zeke and Pollard were hurt and our rushing attack died because of that. So when they weren't blitzing us they'd just fall back in coverage. That two deep shell with the linebackers playing zone gave us some headaches also. And that's when Shultz picked up the slack, because Dak couldn't get it to the wideouts anymore.

So yes there are definitely some problems with Moore. When the run game isn't working he gets conservative as heck. And I'm tired of us settling for field goals from inside the 10. So he needs to run more misdirection plays around the goal line.

20% of the posters on this site could do a better job than that yahoo.

Just listen to what you are saying for a minute. "The run game wasnt working". So that means half your offense simply wasnt effective. And its not like it was a little effective. It was terrible. It was sooo bad that defenses were playing a two deep shell and flooding the secondary with nickel personnel. They werent even accounting for the run. So the offense is already one dimensional and the defense is now focusing on taking away the deep ball and flooding the underneath zones.

Now lets goto the Oline. The line could barely block in the passing game. So Dak now has little confidence in his line and has little time to get the ball out. Play action doesnt work and they are taking away the deep ball and flooding the underneath stuff. Now sprinkle in lots of Oline penalities to erase some bigger plays and make the distances even more difficult.

And your sitting here wanting Moore to dial up some magical plays that can somehow just beat all that consistently? Doesnt happen like that buddy. You arent being realistic if you think OC's can magically do things like that.

erod · Jul 13, 2022

Moore is limited by the players who run the plays he calls.

He can't read the defense faster and throw the ball accurately for Dak. He can't pick up the blitz for Pollard. He can't run the read routes for the receivers.

Play calling is wildly overrated.

You can call the same play for 5 different teams in the same situation, and get 5 different results.

It's always about execution first and foremost.

CowboyRoy · Jul 13, 2022

AsthmaField said:
Yeah, teams stopped blitzing because they were getting burned so often when they did. The offense struggled when defenses stopped.

There was area where Dak struggled during this time and he admitted as much part of the way through the 2nd half of the year. He wasnt being patient enough and simply taking what the defense gave him at times with the underneath stuff. He kept trying to pass deeper into the teeth of the defense because that is what he liked to do. Holding the ball too long. Once he saw it was covered the underneath stuff was done too.

He needed to do more of what Brady does. Off the snap get the ball out quickly and take the 4 yarder completion or 7 yarder and keep the chains moving. A QB has to be very disciplined to do that. Part of that is a Moore issue as well.

But it was nice to see Dak understand this. Hopefully it will make him a better QB coming out this year if the same situation occurs.

CowboysFaninHouston · Jul 13, 2022

TwoDeep3 said:
We have all witnessed the struggle this team has toward the end of the season in recent years. While there will be people making their usual comments about Dak - and I challenge you to not and actually consider the question. There are contributing factors which cannot be answered by pointing at the QB.

Poor offensive line play
Injury
The wrong personnel being used

**There are those who suggest this team feasts on the under .500 teams solely. Defense has a hand in the final score. So this question(s) does ignore the defense and focus on offense, and I think, specifically Moore.

My opinion is the major factor of the offense stalling as the season progresses is Moore. It appears to me he gets stuck on plays - the WR screen just drives me crazy when you see it four times a half. And perhaps he is so married to his game plan he can't shift gears and make in game adjustments. All the clever things he does at times wander off his playbook page as he gets mired in a rut of a hand full of sets and plays.

Do you think he calls plays to the strength of his skill players?
Why doesn't Lamb fit the slant route to a Tee? And yet when was the last time you saw that with this team?

With two running backs, where is the clever play caller who gets both of them on the field at one time?
Fact is, where is the boy genius who devises a play that forces the defense to call a time out because they don't have the correct personnel?

When teams respond with defensive changes, have you seen Moore do anything to change his offense and take advantage of a defense?

I could be wrong about this, and expect the usual suspects will litter this thread with nonsense instead of taking the premise seriously.

But for those who actually like talking about the team and the particulars, and not just Dak hate and Zeke hate, what say you?

His game day management is part of the problem

JBS · Jul 13, 2022

Oz-of-Cowboy-Country said:
It's almost as if he has no plays that can beat the blitz. Teams started blitzing us a lot more toward the end of the season. And that delayed blitz killed us a lot. Dak could just audible to a run and run away from the blitz. But every time they blitz he wants to keep the back in instead of a quick toss to the back in the flat.

Zeke and Pollard were hurt and our rushing attack died because of that. So when they weren't blitzing us they'd just fall back in coverage. That two deep shell with the linebackers playing zone gave us some headaches also. And that's when Shultz picked up the slack, because Dak couldn't get it to the wideouts anymore.

So yes there are definitely some problems with Moore. When the run game isn't working he gets conservative as heck. And I'm tired of us settling for field goals from inside the 10. So he needs to run more misdirection plays around the goal line.

20% of the posters on this site could do a better job than that yahoo.

You are absolutely clueless lolol. Like this couldn’t be any more wrong. Like 200% wrong. Sheesh

phildadon86 · Jul 13, 2022

I think the biggest issue was the OL. Moore did become very vanilla towards the end of the season which was odd. I think that was more him being in over his head and not adjusting because he was married to his plays. The WR screen was brutal and the fact he kept calling it was weird. Also continuing to run Zeke up the gut got old quickly.

The biggest issue I saw though was that they were able to blitz and generate pressure rushing 4 or even 3 at times and dropping everyone back into coverage. In those situations the OC is on the hook for figuring out and devising quicker plays to get the ball out.

Another HUGE issue was down field blocking. So many plays that could have been first downs or even TDs were nullified because Schultz couldn't block. Not even block, there was times where all he had to do was get in front of the guy coming towards the ball carrier and he couldn't even do that.

Moore is a product of Garrett and I fear his biggest issue is he inherited his arrogance in thinking "it worked before why cant it work now". He didn't adjust at all. That could also be the fact that the OL kept getting shuffled as well. OL play is all about continuity and when people start dropping you need to adjust to that and he didnt.

Just my 2 cents.

phildadon86 · Jul 13, 2022

CowboyRoy said:
There was area where Dak struggled during this time and he admitted as much part of the way through the 2nd half of the year. He wasnt being patient enough and simply taking what the defense gave him at times with the underneath stuff. He kept trying to pass deeper into the teeth of the defense because that is what he liked to do. Holding the ball too long. Once he saw it was covered the underneath stuff was done too.

He needed to do more of what Brady does. Off the snap get the ball out quickly and take the 4 yarder completion or 7 yarder and keep the chains moving. A QB has to be very disciplined to do that. Part of that is a Moore issue as well.

But it was nice to see Dak understand this. Hopefully it will make him a better QB coming out this year if the same situation occurs.

The best I have seen Dak play, and it may sound strange is when Kitna was the QB coach. Dak sometimes gets into his own head and plays scared almost, when sometimes just getting the ball out is the right play. Kitna is on record saying that he told Dak "let it rip" when the opportunity is there. I am happy to hear they have been working together again this offseason.

Mahomes had this issue early in the year trying to win the game with one throw. Once Reid and Bieinemy reigned him in and told him to take the underneath stuff the Chiefs looked like the Chiefs again. That is on MM and KM.

Its funny though. If Dak was playing like the way we are suggesting and taking the underneath stuff quickly. He gets called Dak and Dunk by the fan base. lol.

CowboyRoy · Jul 13, 2022

erod said:
Moore is limited by the players who run the plays he calls.

He can't read the defense faster and throw the ball accurately for Dak. He can't pick up the blitz for Pollard. He can't run the read routes for the receivers.

Play calling is wildly overrated.

I agree with this 100% even though you gave two poor examples.

-He cant block for the Oline or bounce the ball outside for Zeke when there is no hole up the middle.

You can call the same play for 5 different teams in the same situation, and get 5 different results.

It's always about execution first and foremost.

RomoIsGod · Jul 13, 2022

Number one offense in the league in yards and points scored and the board is having a conniption.

CowboyRoy · Jul 13, 2022

75boyz said:
It's an unsolved and still unexplained mystery to me. Through 6 or 7 games last year the offense had the balance and look of the 2016 style of power running mixed with opportunistic shots taken down the field.
I was actually fooled.
Then Denver happened.

And something between the OC, RB, QB and OL was never the same. The reports for the decline included injuries to the RB and QB, and the OL shuffling pieces around and Moore's inability to adjust. Or maybe all of the above.

I prefer that running style offense to return.
The one that resembled the 2016 model and temporarily fooled me. It's the only way this team can genuinely achieve success.

Moore's got a role in returning them to that style but he needs all the others mentioned to do their jobs as well.

So many things happened before that Denver game at one time that it should be no mystery. It largely had little to do with Denver.

RomoIsGod · Jul 13, 2022

I repeat. Number one offense in the league in yards and points scored and the board is having a conniption.

CowboyRoy · Jul 13, 2022

phildadon86 said:
The best I have seen Dak play, and it may sound strange is when Kitna was the QB coach. Dak sometimes gets into his own head and plays scared almost, when sometimes just getting the ball out is the right play. Kitna is on record saying that he told Dak "let it rip" when the opportunity is there. I am happy to hear they have been working together again this offseason.

Mahomes had this issue early in the year trying to win the game with one throw. Once Reid and Bieinemy reigned him in and told him to take the underneath stuff the Chiefs looked like the Chiefs again. That is on MM and KM.

Its funny though. If Dak was playing like the way we are suggesting and taking the underneath stuff quickly. He gets called Dak and Dunk by the fan base. lol.

Finally a guy that understands. You nailed the issue with Dak. He should have taken the quick underneath stuff more often then he did.

CouchCoach · Jul 13, 2022

Before I lay this on Moore, I would like to know why McC was not involved in the plan or calling and actually let that be known.

They have an OC with limited experience and a HC with much offensive experience and they are in an elimination game and they’re not working together?

I always thought if a team has a HC with specific experience that he would help mentor and teach his coordinator and help bring him along.

phildadon86 · Jul 13, 2022

CowboyRoy said:
Finally a guy that understands. You nailed the issue with Dak. He should have taken the quick underneath stuff more often then he did.

Which is weird. He did that against Tampa and was shredding them. So I dont know why he stopped. Especially if his calf was injured you would think throwing the short stuff would take stress off that leg as opposed to heaving it downfield. I hate to say it because I cant picture him as the guy that buys into his own hype but maybe he did. And again. This is when coaches are supposed to calm you down and reign you back in. They didnt. Even that toss to Amari in the playoffs. That was a BEAUTIFUL throw. Consistency needs to be a focus, and taking the underneath stuff also.

Creeper · Jul 13, 2022

The Cowboys had the number 1 scoring offense and were first in total yards. So what is the problem?

I think there were two problems witht he offense that can be blamed on Moore. 1. The play calling in the red zone. It seems like the closer the Cowboys got to the end zone, the sillier the play calling became. Those WR screens inside the 10 yard line always seemed to lose yards. Or he would run some other crazy time consuming play. 2. Penalties. How many potential scoring drives were killed by offensive penalties? How many possible TDs became FGs?

On the other hand, there are causes and effects. Maybe the plays called in the Red Zone took into account the run blocking was awful inside?

I still think this team needs to build a running game and a defense that can stuff the run and shut down drives. If they have to rely on Dak too much they will not be successful.

JBond · Jul 13, 2022

Oz-of-Cowboy-Country said:
It's almost as if he has no plays that can beat the blitz. Teams started blitzing us a lot more toward the end of the season. And that delayed blitz killed us a lot. Dak could just audible to a run and run away from the blitz. But every time they blitz he wants to keep the back in instead of a quick toss to the back in the flat.

Zeke and Pollard were hurt and our rushing attack died because of that. So when they weren't blitzing us they'd just fall back in coverage. That two deep shell with the linebackers playing zone gave us some headaches also. And that's when Shultz picked up the slack, because Dak couldn't get it to the wideouts anymore.

So yes there are definitely some problems with Moore. When the run game isn't working he gets conservative as heck. And I'm tired of us settling for field goals from inside the 10. So he needs to run more misdirection plays around the goal line.

20% of the posters on this site could do a better job than that yahoo.

A slow RB and an injured QB that struggled with reading Zone. Despite that, still the number 1 offense in the NFL. Your qualifiers are dumb. Not allowed to talk about the two most expensive pieces on the offense? Dumb.

CowboyRoy · Jul 13, 2022

RomoIsGod said:
I repeat. Number one offense in the league in yards and points scored and the board is having a conniption.

We werent the #1 the 2nd half of the year. Huge difference between our offense first half as compared to 2nd half. Or didnt you notice?

That is what we are discussing here. And in case you didnt notice, it was a big reason we got bounced in the playoffs. We actually went from prime SB contender to one and done disappointment. And it was the offense that was the difference.

Is Kellen Moore the Real Problem on Offense?

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