CFZ Basham and Williams Roughing the Passer Flags and Rule

DallasEast · Aug 15, 2022

ESisback said:
Even if they end up say, 9th or 10th statistically, my point remains. This new standard will negatively impact the improvement of the defense. I can envision a number of 3rd and 4th down stops being negated by yellow flags: “…third and 18, Tampa at the Dallas 42. Dallas up by two. Sam Williams with a sack! The Bucs will have to punt! But wait, a flag! Roughing the passer! First down, Tampa! Now all they have to do is kick!”

Is that scenario happening in the regular season or postseason?

ESisback · Aug 15, 2022

DallasEast said:
These are good questions that I will not be getting into. They do not address securing officiating good enough for a multi-billion dollar industry though.

The league is compensated with astronomical exclusive broadcast rights contracts. In exchange, the NFL employs sometimes subpar officials, who make critical decisions during their weekly product broadcasts.

The league should use the same principal with players. Just jettison all the players. Sign all CFL players for a fifth of what they were paying their players. tada! No one will notice the dip in on-the-field quality play.

The size of the business shouldn’t matter in this context. Your local hospital makes MILLIONS. Do they pay their nurses over 200k? I don’t see subpar officials as much as I see HUMAN officials waffling over ever-changing and inconsistent rules.

ESisback · Aug 15, 2022

DallasEast said:
Is that scenario happening in the regular season or postseason?

I can see it happening this year, but even if it doesn’t happen quite that way, my point remains. This new mantra will negatively impact our team.

Praxit · Aug 15, 2022

..its going to be long year for NFL. I bet half way through season, TWTR and other media outlets will explode with blown calls.

TheGoat73 · Aug 15, 2022

DallasEast said:
I have felt the same way in the past but started attempting to evaluate possible bias on a penalty-by-penalty basis. That said, it is hard for me to not lump all offensive holding calls together as an example of biased officiating. I can literally focus my attention on the other team's line when they have the ball and spot what I consider is blatant holding. No flags thrown. Then swap my attention to our offensive line and see the same thing.

Flags thrown. In my opinion, fans have a valid argument there is no uniform consistency between calls in separate games or even within individual games. However, I do also believe all teams suffer from some degree of officiating bias in every game.

DandyDon52 · Aug 15, 2022

DallasEast said:
Feelings do not matter. Basham's head was up. He drew the penalty because he drove the quarterback into the ground. A simple tackle would have not drawn a flag.

The rule does not care about the split-second anyone perceives either. If Williams went in head up, the flag may not have been thrown.

The team must get a grip on these stupid penalties. Giving the opponent 15 yards and an automatic first down is too much in today's NFL, especially if your defense has not established itself as a dominant unit.

Here's what's worse. Giving a referee an opportunity to subjectively call the hit flagrant gets the player automatically disqualified. Do not give zebras an excuse to permanently sideline a player, especially if it is one of your best players on defense. Don't help refs. They do not care about Dallas winning anyway.

your right , but coaches have that hit mentality, so this will continue lol.
about the hits, I watched your vids in op, and basham did spear qb with his helmet, and took him to the ground, falling on his legs.
williams head was lowered and off to side, but I can see where they might call that hitting with helmet.

Thing is neither hit was necessary ! why not just grab the guy and hold him? or just shove him, the pass is already gone, and this was a preseason game
so no need to hurt other players. No matter how u hit them, you risk a penalty like you say.
I think they should be trying to block the pass rather than hit the qb after throwing the ball. but that goes back to how they are coached.

It is weird some posted in this thread where they want to see our players hit brady in game 1, but why ?? to knock him out of game so that maybe
then dallas can beat them ? QB's are hard to come by, and they(the good ones) make the games interesting, so why people want them to get hit hard
by a giant defender is beyond me.

Players want the sack stat, as it helps their pay, but if qb has thrown the ball or is in action of throwing it as they get to him, it is better to block the pass
or knock it out of his hand than to hit him.

Both hits were not smart, or needed, but coaches are probably more to blame than the players.

shabazz · Aug 15, 2022

Runwildboys said:
And you'll have the softest hands out of all your friends!

Oooh, you so nasty.....but I like that!

Btw. Runnage, have you given any thoughts to becoming a mod for awhile?.....could always use quality people like you helping out the forum

cowfan · Aug 15, 2022

plasticman said:
So then why are there so many more injuries today than there was back then?

In the 70's, the average number of Cowboys that started every game in a season is 14.2. A little more than 14 players each year started every game. The lowest number was 11`.

In the 2010's there was only two seasons in which the number of "complete season" starters was a two digit number and both times that number was 10. Starters are missing a larger proportion of games today than they were 50 years ago despite all the new safety technology in the NFL.

I mean, I agree that they must follow the rules. They hurt their chances of winning if they don't. I'm just kind of skeptical when it comes to justifying these rules.

I'm also puzzled by the fact that football players today make exponentially more money today than those in the 70's. I would think by now that it is understood that part of the reason for the higher salary is accepting the risks associated with playing this game. Think of it as hazardous duty pay. If a soldier can accept $150 a month to put himself in harm's way, then maybe players should look at part of their half million to 40 million dollars a year as the same.

After doing so then maybe the NFL can change back to their original rules in the 70's and actually play football again.

You do realize those older players played with injuries. No one is going to pay a Quarterback $45 million a year and allow someone to hit him late. The league is not going to change rules and go back to the past.

DogFace · Aug 16, 2022

Runwildboys said:
They do it all the time.

Uh huh

Runwildboys · Aug 16, 2022

shabazz said:
Oooh, you so nasty.....but I like that!

Btw. Runnage, have you given any thoughts to becoming a mod for awhile?.....could always use quality people like you helping out the forum

Thanks, but I don't want to commit to anything with my schedule. Besides, that would mean no more ignore list.

atlantacowboy · Aug 16, 2022

You basically can't hit the QB hard. The league has for years been protecting the QB position with new rules. I think if Goodel could get away with it, he would eliminate sacks altogether and put velcro flags around the QBs waist. I don't know how the game ever grew without all these rules.

nhcowboysfan · Aug 16, 2022

DallasEast said:
A tackler cannot throw any of his weight atop the quarterback. This is 2022 in the NFL. It is not changing.

This has to be one of the dumbest replies I have seen in years on this forum. Newsflash: If a defender has his arm on the QB while on the ground he has part of his body weight on the player. Apparently, we now require 300-lb defensemen to utilize levitation when bringing a QB to the ground. I agree with changing the rules: Let's require QBs to wear skirts surrounded with a belt with flags. That way defenders can pull the flag for a sack and not worry about getting flagged or injuring themselves to protect prima donnas.

J-man · Aug 16, 2022

terra said:
Roughing the passer penalties will NOT be called for Dallas Cowboys QBs.

THEY WILL BE CALLED On Dallas Cowboys defenders hitting any other QB.

Secret NFL codicil on the Roughing the Passer rules.

This I believe

nhcowboysfan · Aug 16, 2022

nhcowboysfan said:
This has to be one of the dumbest replies I have seen in years on this forum. Newsflash: If a defender has his arm on the QB while on the ground he has part of his body weight on the player. Apparently, we now require 300-lb defensemen to utilize levitation when bringing a QB to the ground. I agree with changing the rules: Let's require QBs to wear skirts surrounded with a belt with flags. That way defenders can pull the flag for a sack and not worry about getting flagged or injuring themselves to protect prima donnas.

Let me follow up Dallas East by apologizing for that first sentence. I understand you were making an observation consistent with the rule - as obscure as it may be. It was borne out of frustration by one of many fans who are tired of the subjective rules that are inconsistently applied and are ruining the game.

America's Cowboy · Aug 16, 2022

DallasEast said:
Whoa whoa whoa. Maybe I am misunderstanding.

Isaiah Stanback's evaluation of the play is invalid because he played offense?

So, it should be assumed any football broadcaster, who only played on one side of the ball during their career, cannot make an accurate assessment of a play on that same side of the ball?

Is that correct?

It's an honest question. If you never experienced it on a daily basis, how could you give an accurate assessment? It's like talking about the mechanics of throwing a football even though you never were a QB.

DallasEast · Aug 16, 2022

Source: https://operations.nfl.com/inside-football-ops/rules-enforcement/accountability-fines-appeals/

DallasEast · Aug 16, 2022

nhcowboysfan said:
This has to be one of the dumbest replies I have seen in years on this forum. Newsflash: If a defender has his arm on the QB while on the ground he has part of his body weight on the player. Apparently, we now require 300-lb defensemen to utilize levitation when bringing a QB to the ground. I agree with changing the rules: Let's require QBs to wear skirts surrounded with a belt with flags. That way defenders can pull the flag for a sack and not worry about getting flagged or injuring themselves to protect prima donnas.

nhcowboysfan said:
Let me follow up Dallas East by apologizing for that first sentence. I understand you were making an observation consistent with the rule - as obscure as it may be. It was borne out of frustration by one of many fans who are tired of the subjective rules that are inconsistently applied and are ruining the game.

No problemo. :thumbup:

DallasEast · Aug 16, 2022

America's Cowboy said:
It's an honest question. If you never experienced it on a daily basis, how could you give an accurate assessment? It's like talking about the mechanics of throwing a football even though you never were a QB.

If that is the correct conclusion, it would mean that every official, who has never played defense, does not know what they are talking about either. That would certainly invalidate every flag they throw against the defense.

Taken from a football broadcaster/analyst perspective, Booger McFarland, for example, met this defensive requisite. If he assessed the Basham tackle and agreed with the call, he would be "correct." Conversely, Troy Aikman would be "incorrect" since he did not meet this defensive requisite if he reviewed the Basham tackle and disagreed with the call.

Okay.

VACowboy · Aug 16, 2022

I knew when I saw the Basham hit that a flag was coming. Live, it looked like Basham drove the QB into the ground. It's a snap judgement for officials without the benefit of the replay which we scrutinize, and right or wrong it's gonna get called every time. I knew Williams was gonna get flagged too. Whether it's legal or not, if a guy hits a QB hard he's gonna get penalized.

America's Cowboy · Aug 16, 2022

DallasEast said:
If that is the correct conclusion, it would mean that every official, who has never played defense, does not know what they are talking about either. That would certainly invalidate every flag they throw against the defense.

Taken from a football broadcaster/analyst perspective, Booger McFarland, for example, met this defensive requisite. If he assessed the Basham tackle and agreed with the call, he would be "correct." Conversely, Troy Aikman would be "incorrect" since he did not meet this defensive requisite if he reviewed the Basham tackle and disagreed with the call.

Okay.

The officials got BOTH CALLS WRONG. The infuriating part is this is what they train for over and over for.

As for Troy and Booger, there have been times they get a call or two wrong.

CFZ Basham and Williams Roughing the Passer Flags and Rule

Did Basham drive the quarterback into the ground?

Yes

No

Not sure

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