Throw the ball to Zeke more

fivetwos · Oct 5, 2022

I could be wrong but it seems as though every pass to a RB in this offense is a dump off/check down situation.

How do you not have any planned screeens, etc to get your backs more involved, or give defenses something else to prepare for or think about?

thunderpimp91 · Oct 5, 2022

RonnieT24 said:
Drops have really only been an issue for Zeke for that one year.. Which was also the only year in which fumbles were an issue. I am more than prepared to chalk that up to Covid after-effects because we know it affects strength, stamina and concentration. He never looked himself at all that season. But the fact remains that as long as the majority of his receptions are just going to be of the last minute desperation heave that handcuffs him to the sideline he's never going to have big receiving numbers in yards. The biggest difference on the big play Sunday aside from the fact that the defense ignored him was that he got the ball with room to do something other than step out of bounds. The other one is the dump over the middle with a linebacker standing right next to him. They did try lining him up wide and running routes with him last year but that was after the knee injury and it looked absolutely horrid. A healthy Zeke is a legit receiver.. Pollard is a better one though.. So they need to figure out how to get both of them the ball in space.

Everything you said is fair. I still struggle to view Zeke as a true weapon in the receiving game, and a lot of that has to do with the fact that he looks lost sluggish, and out of his element on most passes his way. Also fair to note though that these are mostly dump plays in traffic either over the middle or right by the sideline as you said. I dont see it in Zeke but they haven't given him a real chance to be that guy probably since the 2018 season either.

RonnieT24 · Oct 5, 2022

fivetwos said:
I could be wrong but it seems as though every pass to a RB in this offense is a dump off/check down situation.

How do you not have any planned screeens, etc to get your backs more involved, or give defenses something else to prepare for or think about?

They used to send Zeke on deep routes when Garrett was here.. Who can forget that 50 yard over the shoulder bomb he caught against Detroit back in 2018? I think it was.. They don't do it much anymore even though they did line him up wide quite a bit last year it was always in the most ridiculous situations .. like 3rd and long or 4th and 5. And several times they threw it to him with a corner covering. How did we think that was going to turn out?

morat1959 · Oct 5, 2022

CATCH17 said:
His big play last week came off of a pass play where he was left wide open.

Leonard Fournette was a complete bust until he got to Tampa and instead of just cramming him between the tackles they started dumping it to him in space and he is a tough guy to bring down with a little space.

Zeke can catch and if you actually do some thing to get him in space he might actually give us some production.

Everything else with him is pretty much a wasted play that Pollard should’ve got the touch instead of him. Zeke just doesn’t have the juice anymore that made him special and he’s nothing but a big slow back now.

And run him less between the tackles!

Sydla · Oct 5, 2022

One catch doesn't really prove much.

He's not much of a big threat in the passing game, not nearly like Pollard. But on the flipside, more often than not, he's the better pass blocker. So it creates a dilemma on passing downs. Playing them both at the same takes a TE or WR off the field as well.

RonnieT24 · Oct 5, 2022

thunderpimp91 said:
Everything you said is fair. I still struggle to view Zeke as a true weapon in the receiving game, and a lot of that has to do with the fact that he looks lost sluggish, and out of his element on most passes his way. Also fair to note though that these are mostly dump plays in traffic either over the middle or right by the sideline as you said. I dont see it in Zeke but they haven't given him a real chance to be that guy probably since the 2018 season either.

I think once they acquired Cooper, developed Gallup, Schultz and Wilson and then drafted Lamb Zeke became at best the 5th or 6th receiving option on the team. So I really don't have a huge problem with how little they have thrown him the ball as a designed play over the last three seasons. Sprinkle in Pollard who played more receiver than RB in college and that bumped him down the list even further. So he's getting low productivity targets.. It reminds me of that basketball player who gets the ball with 2 seconds left on the shot clock 25 feet from the basket a lot. He's never going to shoot a high percentage under those circumstances (unless his name is Steph Curry) because the degree of difficulty is just much higher.. With Gallup back Zeke is still at best the 5th best receiving option on the team behind Lamb, Brown, Gallup and Pollard. And yes I am inclined to nudge him ahead of Schultz. If this team could ever figure out how to run a screen again though.. look out!!

fivetwos · Oct 5, 2022

RonnieT24 said:
They used to send Zeke on deep routes when Garrett was here.. Who can forget that 50 yard over the shoulder bomb he caught against Detroit back in 2018? I think it was.. They don't do it much anymore even though they did line him up wide quite a bit last year it was always in the most ridiculous situations .. like 3rd and long or 4th and 5. And several times they threw it to him with a corner covering. How did we think that was going to turn out?

I remember some very effective screens going his way back when.

As you’ve said, I’d like to see him have a head of steam when he get his touches. That flat footed shotgun handoff looks awkward and fools no one.

MyFairLady · Oct 5, 2022

thunderpimp91 said:
When he does catch the ball its for 6 yards per pop on average....Decent, not great.

FYI this is not decent. This is horrific. Some running back finish the season with higher yards per carry than Zeke finishes with yards per reception. His yards per pass attempt can only be described as an abomination.

RonnieT24 · Oct 5, 2022

fivetwos said:
I remember some very effective screens going his way back when.

As you’ve said, I’d like to see him have a head of steam when he get his touches. That flat footed shotgun handoff looks awkward and fools no one.

It definitely doesn't work when the left guard and center both get blown up and the TE barely touches the backside DE. I don't think people truly appreciate what a miracle it is that Zeke gets positive yards on those plays.. Pollard had 4 carries for MINUS 14 yards in the second half on Sunday. All four of his runs lost yardage. Yet there are people still screaming that he should have gotten MORE touches. In that same half against that same defensive line that was killing our offensive line Zeke had 8 carries for 13 yards.. Nothing to write home about but juxtaposed to MINUS FOURTEEN it takes on a different hue. Zeke was able to eke out JUST enough yards in most cases to keep us on schedule with the chains and to keep the defense from teeing off on Rush. Let's say you give Zeke's 8 carries to Pollard.. He might end up with mines 30+ yards.. Turn it around and give Zeke Pollard's 4 carries and you get another 10-12 positive yards. And the added bonus of beating down the defense.

thunderpimp91 · Oct 5, 2022

MyFairLady said:
FYI this is not decent. This is horrific. Some running back finish the season with higher yards per carry than Zeke finishes with yards per reception. His yards per pass attempt can only be described as an abomination.

Ehhh that may be a little strong. I agree with his numbers and tape I dont see any reason to dial up any more passes his way than they currently are, but his yards per catch average is in line with guys like Najee Harris, Fournette, Gibson, etc. a FAR ways away from being in the Ekler, CMC, etc type category for receiving backs, but I'm not upset about those numbers for a guy who doesnt do it often.

It's also fair to say that Zeke isnt getting any designed throws his way. These are dump passes & check downs mostly. 6 yards a pop on those is solid, especially considering he isnt breaking any of these for 40+ yard gains.

TequilaCowboy · Oct 5, 2022

CATCH17 said:
His big play last week came off of a pass play where he was left wide open.

Leonard Fournette was a complete bust until he got to Tampa and instead of just cramming him between the tackles they started dumping it to him in space and he is a tough guy to bring down with a little space.

Zeke can catch and if you actually do some thing to get him in space he might actually give us some production.

Everything else with him is pretty much a wasted play that Pollard should’ve got the touch instead of him. Zeke just doesn’t have the juice anymore that made him special and he’s nothing but a big slow back now.

The problem are the type of passes to Zeke. Having him running in the flat laterally toward the sideline are the worst because he is too slow to turn himself upfield and usually does not make the first guy miss. He turns slower than the Titanic. Now a normal screen pass might be better with his momentum moving forward. But Pollard is the best guy to use because he does have the breakaway speed and elusiveness to go all the way.

fivetwos · Oct 5, 2022

RonnieT24 said:
It definitely doesn't work when the left guard and center both get blown up and the TE barely touches the backside DE. I don't think people truly appreciate what a miracle it is that Zeke gets positive yards on those plays.. Pollard had 4 carries for MINUS 14 yards in the second half on Sunday. All four of his runs lost yardage. Yet there are people still screaming that he should have gotten MORE touches. In that same half against that same defensive line that was killing our offensive line Zeke had 8 carries for 13 yards.. Nothing to write home about but juxtaposed to MINUS FOURTEEN it takes on a different hue. Zeke was able to eke out JUST enough yards in most cases to keep us on schedule with the chains and to keep the defense from teeing off on Rush. Let's say you give Zeke's 8 carries to Pollard.. He might end up with mines 30+ yards.. Turn it around and give Zeke Pollard's 4 carries and you get another 10-12 positive yards. And the added bonus of beating down the defense.

You’re much better than I at XO stuff, but I still say there’s some sort of a ‘tell’ in this offense somewhere. Too many times it looks as if the defense knows a run play is coming and to who and where.

I’m not sure if it’s purely on being predictable.

At any rate I’d wager to at a sweep to 21 on 3rd and 12 was about the last thing NY expected to see.

MyFairLady · Oct 5, 2022

fivetwos said:
I still say there’s some sort of a ‘tell’ in this offense somewhere.
At any rate I’d wager to at a sweep to 21 on 3rd and 12 was about the last thing NY expected to see.

There sure is a tell. The tell is the fat sloth of an RB standing still in the backfield with the ball looking around like he is trying to find his bag of oreo cookies.

SteveTheCowboy · Oct 5, 2022

MyFairLady said:
I am sorry but this is madness. For the last 2.5 years pass attempts to Zeke have been some of the least productive offensive plays in the history of football.

Really dude? You mean because he has to throw a block first then be a last second dump off for dak?

SteveTheCowboy · Oct 5, 2022

MyFairLady said:
There sure is a tell. The tell is the fat sloth of an RB standing still in the backfield with the ball looking around like he is trying to find his bag of oreo cookies.

Oh you mean because the O-line can;t make a block and he's got the center and guard in his face on the hand off?

And no...Pollard fares no better on those plays so don;t even try it.

nalam · Oct 5, 2022

MyFairLady said:
I am sorry but this is madness. For the last 2.5 years pass attempts to Zeke have been some of the least productive offensive plays in the history of football.

something to do with the passer too ( May be Zeke has blames too), especially passing in the flat which is not a Dak forte.

SteveTheCowboy · Oct 5, 2022

You people claiming Zeke is not a good receiver have let your hate and ego blind you to death. Crazy furs.

aikemirv · Oct 5, 2022

Sorry, but Dak throws a terrible ball to backs coming out of the backfield. Not meant to bash Dak here but it is the truth. The ball is never in stride at the numbers - it is always high or low or behind. For an average pass catcher like Zeke it is more than he can make up for and the difference between a 2-4 yard play and a 6-10 yard play.

RonnieT24 · Oct 5, 2022

SteveTheCowboy said:
Oh you mean because the O-line can;t make a block and he's got the center and guard in his face on the hand off?

And no...Pollard fares no better on those plays so don;t even try it.

Pollard was able to LOSE 3.2 yards per carry in the second half against Washington. Clearly he is the superior back..

Hennessy_King · Oct 5, 2022

We cant. Kellen Moore has figured out a way to have the worst screen game in the NFL

Throw the ball to Zeke more

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

The realist

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member