How long until Belichick is considered the greatest ever?

Robert_California · Jan 12, 2012

Risen Star;4373135 said:
I disagree. It's more impressive to me when you move around and build with different characters than it is to stick in one spot where you have it good and run up numbers. It shows that you are the one common denominator to success.

It's why I'd never lump Belichick in with the greatest of the greats until he shows this same ability. I'd bet money he retires when Brady does.

None of the greats ever did what you're describing. They won in one place, over long periods of time. Parcells isn't top 5.

Dfense94 · Jan 12, 2012

Risen Star;4373139 said:
I'm taking into consideration his results. Not excuses. The GOAT failed in Cleveland and had to be fired. That's reality.

He also started off with similar failure in New England until a timely injury forced his hand and Brady got on the field. Then he suddenly became the smartest guy on the planet.

That's an accurate description of his entire head coaching career.

Now show me where any of the other candidates for greatest coach of all time were so reliant on one player for all their success. And don't give me Jimmy Johnson, because no historian would consider him a candidate.

See post #48.

Risen Star · Jan 12, 2012

Dfense94;4373140 said:
lol okay. You can have that opinion. But I guarantee if you were an owner, or a fan of a specific team, you'd want a coach who was going to stick with your franchise for years and sustain greatness than one who was going to have a moderate level of success before calling it quits after 3-5 years.

That's a completely different topic, so I'll take that as a concession.

Of course as an owner I'd want my great coach to stick around. I don't want him to go prove himself with another franchise.

Robert_California · Jan 12, 2012

Risen Star;4373139 said:
I'm taking into consideration his results. Not excuses. The GOAT failed in Cleveland and had to be fired. That's reality.

He also started off with similar failure in New England until a timely injury forced his hand and Brady got on the field. Then he suddenly became the smartest guy on the planet.

That's an accurate description of his entire head coaching career.

Now show me where any of the other candidates for greatest coach of all time were so reliant on one player for all their success. And don't give me Jimmy Johnson, because no historian would consider him a candidate.

I guess it's not possible that the relationship is mutually beneficial and Brady is benefitting as much from BB as vice versa.

Risen Star · Jan 12, 2012

Dfense94;4373144 said:
See post #48.

Post 48 is a laughable response. Do you really want to compare Tom Landry's results without Staubach to Belichick's without Brady?

Belichick was Dave Campo before Tom Brady arrived.

Mr Cowboy · Jan 12, 2012

Robert_California;4373127 said:
Has anyone made a top 5 list yet?

Walsh
Shula
Noll
Lombardi
Brown

Does Bellichick get in that group?

Explain why Shula is even on the list. How many SB did he win, and he had 2 of the greatest QBs of all time. Paul Brown? What did he do?

DFWJC · Jan 12, 2012

Take brady away from Belichick and look at his record.

He's a great coach, but let's not carried away here.

Risen Star · Jan 12, 2012

Robert_California;4373146 said:
I guess it's not possible that the relationship is mutually beneficial and Brady is benefitting as much from BB as vice versa.

Well, I don't know. That could be possible. But when you see a guy fail badly without the great QB and then win big with him, you have to at least consider it. Especially when you're talking about the greatest coach of all time.

To me, the GOAT doesn't need Tom Brady to avoid Dave Campo-like failure. That's all I'm saying.

UVAwahoos · Jan 12, 2012

Dfense94;4373140 said:
lol okay. You can have that opinion. But I guarantee if you were an owner, or a fan of a specific team, you'd want a coach who was going to stick with your franchise for years and sustain greatness than one who was going to have a moderate level of success before calling it quits after 3-5 years.

I'd say taking a perpetually awful NE team to the Super Bowl, resurrecting the career of Vinny Testeverde and taking that team like a game away from the Super Bowl, and then turning a 15-33 team into a 10-6 playoff qualifier in just one season is a bit more than "moderate" success. Especially on the heels of two Super Bowl championships.

Robert_California · Jan 12, 2012

Mr Cowboy;4373149 said:
Explain why Shula is even on the list.

All time wins leader? Maybe that doesn't count for much I dunno.

Paul Brown? What did he do?

Father of the modern offense? Browns dynasties? Any of this ringing a bell?

Dfense94 · Jan 12, 2012

Risen Star;4373145 said:
That's a completely different topic, so I'll take that as a concession.

Of course as an owner I'd want my great coach to stick around. I don't want him to go prove himself with another franchise.

This isn't about Parcells. But if you look at his history, he's done nothing without Belicheck by his side. He's a failure without him as his DC.

You clearly just have an ax to grind against Belichek. Which is fine. To each their own. I just think that for a coach to sustain the level of success that BB has, in this age of free agency, is incredible. He's either 1, or 1A, in modern day coaches.

Risen Star · Jan 12, 2012

Dfense94;4373159 said:
This isn't about Parcells. But if you look at his history, he's done nothing without Belicheck by his side. He's a failure without him as his DC.

You clearly just have an ax to grind against Belichek. Which is fine. To each their own. I just think that for a coach to sustain the level of success that BB has, in this age of free agency, is incredible. He's either 1, or 1A, in modern day coaches.

What has Belichick done without Romeo Crennel be his side?

We can play this game with anyone.

I have no axe to grind. I'm just educated enough to know Belichick has a serious flaw on his resume when the discussion is who was the best coach ever.

Zaxor · Jan 12, 2012

Tom took Danny White to the NFC Championship 3 years in a row.

Dfense94 · Jan 12, 2012

Risen Star;4373162 said:
What has Belichick done without Romeo Crennel be his side?

We can play this game with anyone.

I have no axe to grind. I'm just educated enough to know Belichick has a serious flaw on his resume when the discussion is who was the best coach ever.

Multiple division titles. Undefeated regular season and Super Bowl appearance. Flukey helmet catch away from a Lombardi trophy. Google it if neccessary.

Ring Leader · Jan 12, 2012

My kids tell me that Rap is the greatest music genre of all time.

Risen Star · Jan 12, 2012

Zaxor;4373164 said:
Tom took Danny White to the NFC Championship 3 years in a row.

Belichick matched that by going 36-44 and getting fired in Cleveland.

Your move.

Risen Star · Jan 12, 2012

Dfense94;4373165 said:
Multiple division titles. Undefeated regular season and Super Bowl appearance. Flukey helmet catch away from a Lombardi trophy. Google it if neccessary.

But these are things, minus the meaningless undefeated season, Tom Landry did without Staubach and you're telling me he failed.

You're confusing me.

DFWJC · Jan 12, 2012

Dfense94;4373165 said:
Multiple division titles. Undefeated regular season and Super Bowl appearance. Flukey helmet catch away from a Lombardi trophy. Google it if neccessary.

That was the defintion of a flukey catch. :bang2: Eli's prayer answered, then the player is cut the next year. I'm not even sure that dude is in the league anymore.

NY was charmed. Losing to the Cowboys twice and getting to play them a 3rd time in the playoffs--it's very hard to beat a good team three times. Even then, the Cowboys win if a certain receiver completes his route in the endzone at the the end the game.

As for any discussion of Tom Landry failing....please stop it.

Dfense94 · Jan 12, 2012

Risen Star;4373178 said:
But these are things, minus the meaningless undefeated season, Tom Landry did without Staubach and you're telling me he failed.

You're confusing me.

I don't question that you are in fact confused. Perhaps you could link to where I stated Landy failed.

Chocolate Lab · Jan 12, 2012

Zaxor;4373164 said:
Tom took Danny White to the NFC Championship 3 years in a row.

Plus got to NFL Championship games with Meredith...

How long until Belichick is considered the greatest ever?

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