Football 101: The Talent Evaluation Process

NoDak Cowboy · Feb 21, 2012

FuzzyLumpkins;4425095 said:
Were not talking about Tom, Dick and Harry. We are talking about Hostile.

You can choose to not accept him at his word. I do. I've known Hos for almost ten years and never have I seen him try and intentionally misguide anyone, hes intelligent and honorable.

Pleading? Spare me trying to characterize my words with a negative emotional appeal. Its more like deriding. If you want to assassinate his character so you can cling to your world view of gross generalizations then go right ahead.

I think that he deserves better.

There sure are a lot of plugged in people on this board.

Hmmm.... These looks familiar.

Panthers Could Opt For Tackle in First Round

Published Feb. 15, 2012
By Charlie Campbell - @draftcampbell

An interesting team to keep an eye on in the first round of the 2012 NFL Draft is the Carolina Panthers. After enjoying a rebound season led by star rookie quarterback Cam Newton, the Panthers appear to be on the up as they go into year two under head coach Ron Rivera. In 2011, Carolina produced big point totals on a weekly basis, but struggled to stop anyone on the defensive side of the ball. As a result, they lost a lot of high scoring shootouts.

With the defense being a clear weakness, many have penciled in the Panthers to focus on the defensive side of the football with their first-round pick. That is definitely possible as they could use help at cornerback and defensive tackle. Even though Carolina has a huge need to upgrade the talent of their defense, they also could pursue an offensive tackle.

Left tackle Jordan Gross turns 32 this year, and Carolina has to start thinking of his long-term replacement. Jeff Otah has had a two-year knee injury and his long-term future is in question. The Panthers are optimistic that they won't be picking in the top half of the draft over the next few years, and they know that landing a franchise left tackle is very difficult to do in the later half of the first round. As a result, Carolina will consider Iowa tackle Riley Reiff and Stanford tackle Jonathan Martin.

Reiff is the more polished pass protector, while Martin is a much better run blocker. Right now, many believe that Reiff won't make to the Panthers pick at No. 8 or 9, but a lot can change in leading up the draft. Martin could start his career on the right side for Carolina and move over to left tackle after Gross calls it a career. If Carolina opts to pass on Martin or Reiff, they'll have a hole at tackle for years to come. Therefore, even though they badly need defensive help, this may be the time for them to add an offensive tackle who can protect Cam Newton through the prime years of his career.

Cowboys Targeting Multiple Linebackers

Published Feb. 15, 2012
By Charlie Campbell - @draftcampbell

The Cowboys have had an obvious need at the cornerback position since the beginning of the 2011 season. It would not be surprising to see them make a run at some free agent corners and/or potentially use their first-round draft pick on the position. Aside from corner, the Cowboys need help at safety and on the interior of their offensive line, but interestingly, sources have told ***USER-BAN-INCOMING-IN-3-2-1*** that the Cowboys are putting immense effort into scouting the linebacker position.

Dallas has two impending free agents in Bradie James and Anthony Spencer. Some reports have stated that Spencer could be slapped with the franchise tag despite being inconsistent since entering the league out of Purdue. The former first-rounder would carry an expensive price tag of $8.8 million for the 2012 season, and that doesn't equate to his production of six sacks last season. Dallas may look to the second day of the draft to add an edge rushing linebacker. Some candidates include Marshall's Vinny Curry, Oklahoma's Ronnell Lewis and Troy's Jonathan Massaquoi. The Cowboys could keep Spencer around for another season and develop a draft pick to replace him.

Behind James, the Cowboys have 2011 second-round pick Bruce Carter. Aside from Carter and Sean Lee, Dallas could use more depth at inside linebacker. Sources have said they are showing a lot of interest in mid-round inside linebacker prospects. Some players who might be fits include North Carolina State's Audie Cole, TCU's Tank Carder and Nevada's James-Michael Johnson.

While most predictions have Dallas going hard at the secondary and offensive line with their early picks in the 2012 NFL Draft, free agency could change that, and a position that Dallas could turn their attention to is linebacker. That would become especially apparent if they decide to let both Spencer and James sign with other teams.

realtick · Feb 21, 2012

FuzzyLumpkins;4425095 said:
Were not talking about Tom, Dick and Harry. We are talking about Hostile.

Lol, wow.

You can choose to not accept him at his word. I do. I've known Hos for almost ten years and never have I seen him try and intentionally misguide anyone, hes intelligent and honorable.

Pleading? Spare me trying to characterize my words with a negative emotional appeal. Its more like deriding. If you want to assassinate his character so you can cling to your world view of gross generalizations then go right ahead.

I think that he deserves better.

Lol, that's weird, that's exactly what you're attempting to do.

I never stated, insinuated or inferred that Hos shouldn't be taken at his word, or that he's purposely misguided people, or that I've tried to "assasinate his character."

Those are all bogus and desperate claims of someone who just had their card pulled.

I've only had to indirectly question Hostile for the purpose of scrutinizing what legs your strident contentions stand on. Which in the end have been shown to be not much at all, unless you really think just saying "hey, Hostile said it, so it must so...I just believe him "is convincing solid ground to base an argument off of. And bottomline, just because you've decided that you're fine with blindly accepting claims based on your own prejudice, why would you ever think others have to be fine using such a low-level filter for determining truth?

We don't even have to use Hostile. His name just happens to be the tied to this thread. We can use a fictional character named Joe Blow. It doesn't matter.

It's no more convincing than when the neighbor of an axe murderer says, "well, Jimmy was always polite and nice to me. I just refuse to believe he killed anybody."

If you want to continue to believe things on blind faith, be my guest, but don't get mad when others object to it.

Hostile · Feb 21, 2012

I have never asked anyone to believe me 100%. Often I advise, take this with a grain of salt. I do have some good sources. I kind of figured most people had figured that out by now. Some will attack anyone who has them if they don't. I've never understood that. If I, or anyone else, shares something we are doing it not for praise but because it is about our team. I've come to decide I won't share very much any more due to the constant backlash like this.

As far as talent evaluations, this is how teams do it. It is a multi-layered process with hours and hours of study, discussion, and second guessing before they actually make that final decision.

That was and is the only point I had in posting this thread. I could have written it about any team. I chose to use the Cowboys because people recognize the names given this is still a Cowboys forum. That isn't going to change no matter how many Super Bowls the Giants, Steelers, Packers, and every other team fans are jealous of, win.

Verdict · Feb 21, 2012

Hostile;4423975 said:
Yeah, I gave him crap for that. He's a stand up guy and he took it.

You still went from bashing his report that I shared (that a major news site also reported) to talking about VR sources. All over the map.

Bad guess. I reported it in September 2007 and when the Detroit Lions denied it daily I stuck to my guns. You should wonder why.

I don't steal from Goose. So I guess not everyone does.

How did I know we were going to acquire Drew Henson? I PMed Verdict and Chief about it and even told them the compensation and that Aikman attended the workout days before a news report ever mentioned it. Feel free to ask them if this is true.

How did I know that Quincy Carter had stabbed Joey Galloway in the back in a film session and Galloway had to be restrained by Woodson and Emmitt? TwoDeep3 can verify that I posted that weeks before JFE wrote her article about Quincy spiraling downhill. Feel free to ask him. He's even mad at me so he'll probably entertain you with some names for me.

The eyes get greener.

I can verify that Hostile was all over this like a duck on a june bug and was way ahead of the curve on this one.

Verdict · Feb 21, 2012

Verdict;4425292 said:
I can verify that Hostile was all over this like a duck on a june bug and was way ahead of the curve on this one.

For those of you who have a hard time reading between the lines that translates to: Yes. That is true.

FuzzyLumpkins · Feb 21, 2012

realtick;4425208 said:
Lol, wow.

Lol, that's weird, that's exactly what you're attempting to do.

I never stated, insinuated or inferred that Hos shouldn't be taken at his word, or that he's purposely misguided people, or that I've tried to "assasinate his character."

Those are all bogus and desperate claims of someone who just had their card pulled.

I've only had to indirectly question Hostile for the purpose of scrutinizing what legs your strident contentions stand on. Which in the end have been shown to be not much at all, unless you really think just saying "hey, Hostile said it, so it must so...I just believe him "is convincing solid ground to base an argument off of. And bottomline, just because you've decided that you're fine with blindly accepting claims based on your own prejudice, why would you ever think others have to be fine using such a low-level filter for determining truth?

We don't even have to use Hostile. His name just happens to be the tied to this thread. We can use a fictional character named Joe Blow. It doesn't matter.

It's no more convincing than when the neighbor of an axe murderer says, "well, Jimmy was always polite and nice to me. I just refuse to believe he killed anybody."

If you want to continue to believe things on blind faith, be my guest, but don't get mad when others object to it.

The quote you originally responded to me was directed at bbgun. Bb was saying that he should be worried about his reputation and insinuating that Hostile was a willing rube.

Like I said. I think he deserves better than that. Nice try attempting to make this about you though.

I have made it clear that nothing is taken on blind faith and in this case none of you are willing to try and challenge a single detail from the OP. Do you argue who reports to Judd Garrett or how the grades are determined?

No, what we get is a gross generalization that the OP is an attempt to exonerate Jerry Jones and a subsequent dismissal of the whole thing followed by drivel like this where you tout your right to doubt and complain.

Whatevs.

realtick · Feb 21, 2012

Hostile;4425259 said:
I have never asked anyone to believe me 100%. Often I advise, take this with a grain of salt. I do have some good sources.

Lol, your delivery is a major part of the problem IMO.

You don't (as far as the times I've read) give a caveat before making a sourced claim like "...take it w/a grain of salt...this is what I've heard." Instead, it's typically some bold proclamation like "the Cowboys will sign Michael Huff" or "the Cowboys will not be carrying two kickers," such as to give the impression that you have the inside scoop ya heard it here first...bank on it.

I think if you did qualify your claims when they are made, most folks wouldn't give you a hard time about it. But because you don't, when things don't come to fruition, you make yourself an easy punching bag.

I won't debate it if you have true sources or not. But I think it's clearly up for debate whether they're actually good or not.

And it's far too convienent to think that just because someone questions your sources that they're jealous of you having sources.

realtick · Feb 22, 2012

FuzzyLumpkins;4425299 said:
Nice try attempting to make this about you though.

Hmmm, what was I thinking when you quoted me entirely and responded to specifics in my post (here).

I have made it clear that nothing is taken on blind faith and in this case none of you are willing to try and challenge a single detail from the OP. Do you argue who reports to Judd Garrett or how the grades are determined?

You absolutely have taken it on blind faith and your responses have done nothing but support that notion, "I've known Hos for almost ten years and never have I seen him try and intentionally misguide anyone, hes intelligent and honorable." That's not a evidenced based claim, that's simply an appeal to emotions, experience and character, which all sound nice but doesn't make something objectively factual. Again, the "Johnny's always been sweet to me...I just don't believe he killed someone." defense. Blind faith.

No, what we get is a gross generalization that the OP is an attempt to exonerate Jerry Jones and a subsequent dismissal of the whole thing followed by drivel like this where you tout your right to doubt and complain.

Whatevs.

Lol, most of what I've read are people disagreeing with why the structure is what it is, not the accuracy of how things are structured on paper. Just because the organization has a flowchart doesn't mean Jerry doesn't have his fingers in areas that seem out of his realm of responsibility. Maybe that's why you aren't getting the responses you're looking for because you can't comprehend what people are objecting to, but "whatevs."

FuzzyLumpkins · Feb 22, 2012

realtick;4425302 said:
Hmmm, what was I thinking when you quoted me entirely and responded to specifics in my post (here).

You absolutely have taken it on blind faith and your responses have done nothing but support that notion, "I've known Hos for almost ten years and never have I seen him try and intentionally misguide anyone, hes intelligent and honorable." That's not a evidenced based claim, that's simply an appeal to emotions, experience and character, which all sound nice but doesn't take something objectively factual. Blind faith.

Lol, here's a simple question: how was content of the OP established as factually correct to begin with? Don't ask why I think it's wrong because that's not my beef. I want to know how you know it's factually correct/accurate.

So in one post after my response you made it entirely about you. like I said look at the origin of the conversation. I don't feel like being trolled anymore. Good night.

junk · Feb 22, 2012

Hostile;4424985 said:
What the Head Coach wants ALWAYS carries the most weight. Hence why I said what I did in the OP in the 4th paragraph and the first sentence of that paragraph. Which explains the 2nd sentence in that paragraph and why those questions even have to be asked.

Has Dallas changed this approach? The article posted earlier showed Campo leaning towards Buchanon, but Jones made the call for Jammer to be rated higher.

This also flies in the face of what Jerry himself has said on numerous occasions (as recently as Jan. 4, 2012)

"The facts are that I've spent 22 years doing this exactly the same way," Jones said Tuesday on KRLD-FM. "I've made a lot of changes from year to year as time goes along, but frankly, I know that when we do not have the kind of success, when we don't have expectations lived up to, the one that should get the most heat is the one that ultimately makes the decisions, period, with the Dallas Cowboys. And that's me."

http://espn.go.com/dallas/nfl/story...ys-owner-jerry-jones-consider-giving-gm-title

The other point with respect to coaches is that I've read articles from scouts that actually think coaches hinder the scouting process. Coaches are busy coaching all year when the scouts are out on the road evaluating these guys. By the end of the year, the scouts have a good idea of where the players should be rated. The coaches get involved around the time of the Combine, pro days, etc., get infatuated with a guy and screw up the scouting process just prior to the draft. My guess is that is also about the tiem Jerry gets actively involved.

I actually like Garrett quite a bit, but he has a steep learning curve. I'm encouraged by Couchscouts post because he does have too much on his plate. Being the head guy in the personnel area seems like even more to pile on him especially when he's never done any scouting.

But, the HC being the guy carrying the most weight also kind of flies in the face of Ciskowski being the de facto GM.....because that guy's voice should carry the most weight when it comes to the draft.

BrAinPaiNt · Feb 22, 2012

Just some ramblings from your friendly (mostly) neighborhood BP.

There ARE members here that are part of the Dallas Media. This is not in question. A funny story about one of the dallas media that is a member here. He made a challenge of sorts to one of the mods. Said if that mod could figure out who he was on this forum he would send the mod some tickets to a Rangers game. I found out what his username was and told the mod. Don't know if the mod ever took the journalist up on the offer or not. A few times I sent the journalist a PM (to his membership name here) to congratulate him on a recent book or article just to joke a bit with him.

Secondly. There have been relatives of players, agents of players and some players themselves who have contacted the board in one respect or another.

What some people on here don't seem to understand is that when they constantly belittle and attack some members with sources (whether that be a relative of a player, a media member with contacts, a person that has contacts in some way with the team or other nfl teams) they wind up driving said members away or discourage them from sharing any info they get with the board.

They need to remember that as cowboys fans they just want to share info they have received with the rest of the board. But by constantly attacking their info it only alienates those members and they either leave all together or they just don't feel that sharing that info is worth the hassle.

So in the end the nature of not believing these people to the extreme that they constantly belittle them and in some cases harass them, they only hurt the amount of info that comes into/onto the board.

We have had some members completely quit the board because of this and they had good info and actually would talk to some players on a regular basis. One member got called some pretty bad things that were uncalled for so that person just quit posting all together which is a shame because that member would give us some good info about some players that came in via FA or trades before that info was out to the general public. So by some members being extremely rude we lost a good source that provided some good info to all of the cowboys fans that come to this site. We lost out because some had to be jerks just no other nice way to say it but it is true.

Another thing to consider. Just because some info that is passed on does not pan out, it does not mean a member is making it up or that anything else they say should be automatically dismissed. Things do change, some things are also floated out there for misdirection from a source and not always told to the person that it is for misdirection.

I have seen some things on a college board that proves that point. Some insiders were letting some info out about some possible upcoming decisions. Next thing you know a few weird bits of info started to come out and many of them were in contradiction to other info released. Turns out a team was trying to find out who was leaking some real information by starting up a few fake rumors to see who would post what so they could find the leak.

There are other times when a team does indeed have something in mind but changes their mind later.

A good example of this is Jerry Jones and TO and how Jerry said TO would be on the team the next season and when they let him go TO got mad and called Jerry a liar or not a man of his word.

Problem with that is that at the time Jerry Jones said it he was being honest and not trying to deceive anyone. It was only later when some of the coaches and other people in the FO talked Jerry into letting TO go that Jerry agreed and let TO go. Things are fluid and can change.

There have also been times when the team is interested in a player in the draft and by all accounts would take him if he fell to their spot...only to see another player fall to them that they really did not think would fall so they take them instead because he is rated higher on their charts. So if any info prior to that came out that they really liked player A and someone shares that info...just because they took player B does not mean that the person sharing the info was lying or making it up...it was because things can change.

Some people will complain that some sharing info does not always say something like take it with a grain of salt, but even when some people do say something along those lines or make a disclaimer that says that if someone does not believe their info to put them on ignore or that things could change...people still complain about it.

Things can change, delays can happen, opinions from the team can change, a player could become available that they did not think would, trades could be offered in that last minute or close to it. It is going to be a rare thing for ANYONE to be 100% accurate with the info they share because that info can change at any time without notice.

Another example of this was on the college forum I was talking about. A member of that forum was telling fellow WVU fans WVU would be joining a specific conference (SEC). Then after some time they said that things changed and they would be joining another (big 12). They said it would happen before or on a specific date. That date was about to happen, things were about to be announced but all of a sudden another team jumped into the mix (louisville) and it pushed the date back a few days. Because this person changed Conferences in his info and because it was a few days later than the official announcement time he had heard...many people would not believe anything else he said and called him a bunch of crazy names. Sad thing was he was right about everything until something changed that nobody (even the team) seen coming (like louisville jumping into the fray to halt the official announcement).

So again, don't ruin it for all cowboys fans by being rude, calling names or just trying to be some kind of internet rebel who thinks it his or her mission in life to make sure everything is 100% accurate or nothing is accurate just to satisfy your own sense of worth or because you don't like someone because all that does is ruin it for all the others who are happy to get any info they can get about their favorite team. Because things can change and it is hard for ANYONE to be 100% accurate with info that a team does not always want out there. It is ok if you do not believe a person but try to keep in mind not to be a jerk about it. It ruins it for all the other cowboys fans that come to this site to get any info they can about their favorite team.

I don't care if you don't like a particular user who shares info, I don't care if you are somehow jealous of a user that shares some info, I don't care if you just want to show the world that you are an internet tough guy and will not believe anything....Just remember to disagree politely and move on instead of trying to hijack a thread in some quest to prove you are an internet tough guy and quit ruining it for other members here who would like to get some info. Because that is what you do more often than not.

Most members who share info here will not mind if you are a cautious person who does not believe all the info, most do not mind if you respectfully disagree however they also don't like to be called names, chased from thread to thread trying to belittle them, hijacking their threads for your own amusement or just generally being rude to them when it is uncalled for.

Thankfully I understand this. Even if I may not always agree with a poster or their line of thinking. And in return I get some info that is not shared with board because some don't want to be treated like a jerk over the info. They take the time and want to share the info but don't want to be treated poorly for doing so. So in some cases they just might share it via PMs to some members. Which is nice that I get that info from time to time but it makes me sad that the many good members on this forum are missing out on the info because a few people want to ruin it for everyone.

There...I said my piece or is it peace...oh well you get the point.

fanfromvirginia · Feb 22, 2012

BrAinPaiNt;4425469 said:
Just some ramblings from your friendly (mostly) neighborhood BP.

There ARE members here that are part of the Dallas Media. This is not in question. A funny story about one of the dallas media that is a member here. He made a challenge of sorts to one of the mods. Said if that mod could figure out who he was on this forum he would send the mod some tickets to a Rangers game. I found out what his username was and told the mod. Don't know if the mod ever took the journalist up on the offer or not. A few times I sent the journalist a PM (to his membership name here) to congratulate him on a recent book or article just to joke a bit with him.

Secondly. There have been relatives of players, agents of players and some players themselves who have contacted the board in one respect or another.

What some people on here don't seem to understand is that when they constantly belittle and attack some members with sources (whether that be a relative of a player, a media member with contacts, a person that has contacts in some way with the team or other nfl teams) they wind up driving said members away or discourage them from sharing any info they get with the board.

They need to remember that as cowboys fans they just want to share info they have received with the rest of the board. But by constantly attacking their info it only alienates those members and they either leave all together or they just don't feel that sharing that info is worth the hassle.

So in the end the nature of not believing these people to the extreme that they constantly belittle them and in some cases harass them, they only hurt the amount of info that comes into/onto the board.

We have had some members completely quit the board because of this and they had good info and actually would talk to some players on a regular basis. One member got called some pretty bad things that were uncalled for so that person just quit posting all together which is a shame because that member would give us some good info about some players that came in via FA or trades before that info was out to the general public. So by some members being extremely rude we lost a good source that provided some good info to all of the cowboys fans that come to this site. We lost out because some had to be jerks just no other nice way to say it but it is true.

Another thing to consider. Just because some info that is passed on does not pan out, it does not mean a member is making it up or that anything else they say should be automatically dismissed. Things do change, some things are also floated out there for misdirection from a source and not always told to the person that it is for misdirection.

I have seen some things on a college board that proves that point. Some insiders were letting some info out about some possible upcoming decisions. Next thing you know a few weird bits of info started to come out and many of them were in contradiction to other info released. Turns out a team was trying to find out who was leaking some real information by starting up a few fake rumors to see who would post what so they could find the leak.

There are other times when a team does indeed have something in mind but changes their mind later.

A good example of this is Jerry Jones and TO and how Jerry said TO would be on the team the next season and when they let him go TO got mad and called Jerry a liar or not a man of his word.

Problem with that is that at the time Jerry Jones said it he was being honest and not trying to deceive anyone. It was only later when some of the coaches and other people in the FO talked Jerry into letting TO go that Jerry agreed and let TO go. Things are fluid and can change.

There have also been times when the team is interested in a player in the draft and by all accounts would take him if he fell to their spot...only to see another player fall to them that they really did not think would fall so they take them instead because he is rated higher on their charts. So if any info prior to that came out that they really liked player A and someone shares that info...just because they took player B does not mean that the person sharing the info was lying or making it up...it was because things can change.

Some people will complain that some sharing info does not always say something like take it with a grain of salt, but even when some people do say something along those lines or make a disclaimer that says that if someone does not believe their info to put them on ignore or that things could change...people still complain about it.

Things can change, delays can happen, opinions from the team can change, a player could become available that they did not think would, trades could be offered in that last minute or close to it. It is going to be a rare thing for ANYONE to be 100% accurate with the info they share because that info can change at any time without notice.

Another example of this was on the college forum I was talking about. A member of that forum was telling fellow WVU fans WVU would be joining a specific conference (SEC). Then after some time they said that things changed and they would be joining another (big 12). They said it would happen before or on a specific date. That date was about to happen, things were about to be announced but all of a sudden another team jumped into the mix (louisville) and it pushed the date back a few days. Because this person changed Conferences in his info and because it was a few days later than the official announcement time he had heard...many people would not believe anything else he said and called him a bunch of crazy names. Sad thing was he was right about everything until something changed that nobody (even the team) seen coming (like louisville jumping into the fray to halt the official announcement).

So again, don't ruin it for all cowboys fans by being rude, calling names or just trying to be some kind of internet rebel who thinks it his or her mission in life to make sure everything is 100% accurate or nothing is accurate just to satisfy your own sense of worth or because you don't like someone because all that does is ruin it for all the others who are happy to get any info they can get about their favorite team. Because things can change and it is hard for ANYONE to be 100% accurate with info that a team does not always want out there. It is ok if you do not believe a person but try to keep in mind not to be a jerk about it. It ruins it for all the other cowboys fans that come to this site to get any info they can about their favorite team.

I don't care if you don't like a particular user who shares info, I don't care if you are somehow jealous of a user that shares some info, I don't care if you just want to show the world that you are an internet tough guy and will not believe anything....Just remember to disagree politely and move on instead of trying to hijack a thread in some quest to prove you are an internet tough guy and quit ruining it for other members here who would like to get some info. Because that is what you do more often than not.

Most members who share info here will not mind if you are a cautious person who does not believe all the info, most do not mind if you respectfully disagree however they also don't like to be called names, chased from thread to thread trying to belittle them, hijacking their threads for your own amusement or just generally being rude to them when it is uncalled for.

Thankfully I understand this. Even if I may not always agree with a poster or their line of thinking. And in return I get some info that is not shared with board because some don't want to be treated like a jerk over the info. They take the time and want to share the info but don't want to be treated poorly for doing so. So in some cases they just might share it via PMs to some members. Which is nice that I get that info from time to time but it makes me sad that the many good members on this forum are missing out on the info because a few people want to ruin it for everyone.

There...I said my piece or is it peace...oh well you get the point.

Best post of the thread. Thank you for explaining this, BP. My question/suggestion -- do mods warn/ban the most eggregious offenders? I'd rather some of these posters get banned than to have these sources of info disappear out of frustration. I know you'd have to do it in a way that protected their anonymity, of course, but that could be done, right?

Hostile · Feb 22, 2012

junk;4425373 said:
Has Dallas changed this approach?

Yes, and as I have said many times, the Cowboys began to change when Lacewell was gone and Jeff Ireland arrived. Once Parcells also arrived it cemented things as they are now. Switzer, Gailey, and Campo eras, Lacewell was the strongest voice in the room.

Chocolate Lab · Feb 22, 2012

How did this get to be about "sources" anyway? Didn't only one or two people out of everyone on this monstrous thread even mention that? I thought this thread was about Jerry's role as GM, and whether what he did was just like every other NFL team or not.

But on sources, am I the only one who doesn't care about this so-called inside information anyway? I don't know, it's never impressed me. If it's wrong half the time anyway -- even if sources really did say it -- why get all worked up about it? I'd rather talk about what the team is actually doing than something that we're *supposedly* doing.

But maybe it is just me because everyone seems to get really worked up about this whispered super-secret info.

Anyway, I notice you only got a tiny bit of that last post answered, Junk. And Lacewell was here for years after Ireland arrived.

casmith07 · Feb 22, 2012

Chocolate Lab;4425525 said:
How did this get to be about "sources" anyway? Didn't only one or two people out of everyone on this monstrous thread even mention that? I thought this thread was about Jerry's role as GM, and whether what he did was just like every other NFL team or not.

But on sources, am I the only one who doesn't care about this so-called inside information anyway? I don't know, it's never impressed me. If it's wrong half the time anyway -- even if sources really did say it -- why get all worked up about it? I'd rather talk about what the team is actually doing than something that we're *supposedly* doing.

To answer your first paragraph, yes, it was about the front office and talent evaluation process in the NFL. It got to be about sources because of hijackers.

No, you're not the only person who might not care that much about inside info. Plenty of people don't. The difference with you, as I've seen, is that you just don't post, or don't care, whereas others hijack threads and bash people, as BP posted.

In short, you're good to go, nothing to see here.

Hostile · Feb 22, 2012

fanfromvirginia;4425499 said:
Best post of the thread. Thank you for explaining this, BP. My question/suggestion -- do mods warn/ban the most eggregious offenders? I'd rather some of these posters get banned than to have these sources of info disappear out of frustration. I know you'd have to do it in a way that protected their anonymity, of course, but that could be done, right?

Let me be real honest with you. This forum has 2 reputations. One is that we are too strict. The other is that we are too lenient. Sounds like Charles Dickens "Tale of Two Cities" doesn't it?

We are considered too strict because we do not allow bikini pictures, foul language, or for disagreements to become too personal. In other words, we don't want Cowboys fans hating Cowboys fans when there are Commanders, Eagles, and Giants fans to hate.

We are considered too lenient because we give people a lot of leeway before we do ban them. One guy who fit the description BP was describing above had 35 infractions here before we finally said enough is enough. He had been suspended several times. He never learned. Each time he came back and was a good poster for a while, and then he'd revert to form.

Posters who are excessively rude drive other posters off a forum. And to be quite truthful we are probably more at fault than the rude posters because we allow it to go on longer than we should. I would like nothing more than to simply ban all of the constantly rude posters on this forum, but that has never been our goal here.

Despite what banned posters and their lingering cohorts claim about this site banning people for disagreeing with the team or a clique, they actually get banned for breaking the rules here, or for simply being someone so rude that we get fed up.

The saddest part of this for us is that none of us on the staff like banning people. I can't stand it personally. I hate even giving infractions. But do you know what I hate more than having to do those things? Seeing good posters run off, and make no mistake about it, it has happened here way too often.

One poster who does not post here any more or anywhere else for that matter is a real estate agent who is used by the Dallas Cowboys to find places to live for the players who are coming to Dallas. She was also dating a player at that time. Let me give you an example of how this information got to us here first. Dedric Ward was sent to her to find an apartment. She shared it with us. 2 days later Dedric Ward was signed by the Cowboys. We had known about it for 2 days.

Now, I don't know about you, but that kind of information is freaking awesome to me. Guess what jerks here focused on?

They didn't like the player she was dating and they took it out on her.

BP mentioned family members join. That is true. One in particular did post and his son was a lightning rod of controversy. But this poster took it and took it and took it. He shared with us the news that Bill Parcells brother had died. I actually had DFW media members PMing me asking if there was any news organization verifying that information. Know why? Because they can't go to their sport editor and say, "I read on this fan forum that Bill Parcells' brother died. I want to report it."

Well, no news service reported it for hours and hours, and in the interim that man got attacked as a liar, and his son was trashed even worse than he had been before.

Lo and behold, Parcells brother had died. Do you think any of those posters apologized to the man for calling him a liar? Think again. They continued to attack his son.

I know of 3 players who have accounts here, but they do not post. I approve accounts here so I see e-mail addresses and I know if someone has an e-mail address to the Cowboys that he is real. Guess what I do as soon as their accounts are approved?

I send an e-mail and/or PM to that player and I advise them NOT to post here. That's right. I pray they read here every day. But there is not a doubt in my mind that Internet tough guys who enjoy playing the jerks and doubters are going to run off a player.

That is the sad truth. So, just like BP said, sometimes I get info in a PM and 9 times out of 10 I do not share it. I used to. In fact, I sometimes share things with the staff here that never makes it to the forum, and sometimes I share stuff with posters like Verdict who just reported to you that I did indeed know all about the Drew Henson stuff days ahead of the media.

There is no way on this earth that I would have posted the info I had about Drew Henson. Know why? Because fans would have been huge jerks. Especially the at that time very jealous Hutch and Q fans. I had information that Kurt Warner wanted to sign here in 2004. I never shared it with the forum. Same reason as above and also because there were rumors Parcells wanted Vinny, and that is the route we took. I guarantee you I would have been called a liar for sharing what I knew. Ask Kurt Warner if in 2004 he was interested in coming to the Cowboys if you ever bump into him. Jerry wanted him. Jerry gave Parcells the guy he wanted instead. That is 100% true.

Take it with a grain of salt.

Concord · Feb 22, 2012

bbgun;4423911 said:
My brain and eyeballs.

That's because I don't like being fed garbage. His sources, assuming they exist, are lousy ones. It their intent is to feed him bad info and make him look foolish, then mission accomplished. AFAIK, the only poster with a reliable contact at VR is "dools."

:laugh2:

cowboy_ron · Feb 22, 2012

Hostile;4425505 said:
Yes, and as I have said many times, the Cowboys began to change when Lacewell was gone and Jeff Ireland arrived. Once Parcells also arrived it cemented things as they are now. Switzer, Gailey, and Campo eras, Lacewell was the strongest voice in the room.

Where is Lacewell now, do you know?

BrAinPaiNt · Feb 22, 2012

cowboy_ron;4425557 said:
Where is Lacewell now, do you know?

Don't even say his name...it might make jerry nostalgic and bring him back even more.

bbgun · Feb 22, 2012

casmith07;4425529 said:
To answer your first paragraph, yes, it was about the front office and talent evaluation process in the NFL. It got to be about sources because of hijackers.

No, you're not the only person who might not care that much about inside info. Plenty of people don't. The difference with you, as I've seen, is that you just don't post, or don't care, whereas others hijack threads and bash people, as BP posted.

In short, you're good to go, nothing to see here.

ahem

Football 101: The Talent Evaluation Process

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