How bad will Garrett be this year?

Chocolate Lab

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CowboyMcCoy;4555731 said:
Because I usually don't get all upset at coaches, but last year made me want to vomit. I'm not going to lie just because I'm a fan.

Is it even possible to discuss the coaching abilities of Garrett without turning it into something it's not?
Apparently not. The last coach we had, or really the last two coaches we had, got ripped all the time.

But they weren't the golden boys in the family portrait, so it was okay, even encouraged, to rip them. This one? Nope, he's pretty much hands off.

The fact is, last year was full of literally historic collapses, and any coach presiding over that would get criticized. Yet all you hear about RJ is "full offseason" or "wrong players" or "process". What's he done to earn special treatment? It sure isn't the track record.
 

Dallas4ever

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CowboyMcCoy;4555646 said:
Last season was the worst coaching job I've seen in a decade, in college or pro, by any team I'm a fan of.

Will Garrett be as awful this year as he was the last?

Do you have a tar and feather fetish??? :D
 

CoCo

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CowboyMcCoy;4555646 said:
Last season was the worst coaching job I've seen in a decade, in college or pro, by any team I'm a fan of.

Will Garrett be as awful this year as he was the last?

That little insertion really changes the complexion of the whole statement. But I'll answer according to your terms. Was Garrett in 2011 worse than Wade in 2010?

CowboyMcCoy;4555671 said:
1)Detroit--Romo has broken ribs. Garrett calls pass one too many times. Romo airs it out while likely on pain medication and, viola, a toss to Bobby Carpenter to blow the biggest lead ever blown in Cowboy's history.

That's quite an accomplishment.

2) New England--Garrett calls 3 straight run plays and gives the ball back to Brady

3)Cardinals--Time out. Need I say more?

We should have made the playoffs last year. The only real reason we didn't is because we don't have a real coach. I seriously don't think this guy is cut out for head coaching duties.

Stuff like the above is just silly IMO. So Romo's pain meds didn't stop him from lighting up Detroit for 3/4 but did cause the Carpenter pick six?

And your examples are all in-game decisions as if that is THE most important ingredient in a HC by far. I disagree.

And you present the 3 examples as if they are open and shut cases of bad coaching. Sure, hindsight is 20/20, but I consider those examples as great 2nd-guessing fodder, but hardly definitive proof of horrible coaching. And I'd feel the same way if it were Wade or Campo.

But that's just me. You obviously feel WAY different. So have at it.
 

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Eskimo

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CowboyMcCoy;4555671 said:
1)Detroit--Romo has broken ribs. Garrett calls pass one too many times. Romo airs it out while likely on pain medication and, viola, a toss to Bobby Carpenter to blow the biggest lead ever blown in Cowboy's history.

That's quite an accomplishment.

2) New England--Garrett calls 3 straight run plays and gives the ball back to Brady

3)Cardinals--Time out. Need I say more?

We should have made the playoffs last year. The only real reason we didn't is because we don't have a real coach. I seriously don't think this guy is cut out for head coaching duties.

1. Romo wasn't taking pain meds but he was taking a nerve block in the ribs prior to the games. Romo was playing well and making enough good decisions to put us in the lead that day. Carpenter made a good play on an ill-advised throw and we probably didn't need to be running that deep in our own end with a 3 TD lead so I'll concede the point to some degree. However, at that time in the year we could not run the ball consistently and our defense is not good enough to defend against a powerhouse offense with a whole run of 3 and outs from the offense. We probably needed to keep throwing but Romo needed to make better decisions in that game understanding the circumstances.

2. Now at the end of the NE game Garrett appropriately ran the first 2 times but lost 3 yards and got a penalty making it 3rd and 18 if I remember correctly. It is very hard to convert a 3rd and 12+ yards - moreso if you are on the road, have a QB with bad ribs and your top 2 WRs are dinged up and you just lost your #1 RB. You have an injured QB playing behind a young and inexperienced OL against a team that won 14 games the year before and was on their way to another SB appearance. You also have your star QB coming off a game where he was crucified by the media for 3 INTs in the second half.

I really think Garrett had no choice but to run a low-risk play on 3rd down there. I don't really disagree with running it on first and second down to take a bit of time off the clock but ideally you would be in 3rd and 5 and not 3rd and 15.

At that time in Garrett's and Romo's career I really can't fault the playcalling but it was a matter of poor blocking from the OL.

The defense could have still held them and had a whole field to defend which they couldn't do.

3. In the Cardinals game he should have tried to get more yards there but got too conservative given the amount of time left in the game. 5-10 more yards makes for an easier FG for Bailey. I think the decision was wrong.

In the end, I think Garrett's biggest problem all season was a very inconsistent OL that gave up a lot of sacks, hits and pressures. Our whole gameplan seemed to be set around getting the ball out of Romo's hands before something bad happened and these tendencies actually allowed defenses to get very aggressive against us knowing this.

You have to remember we had a spurt where we played well with Murray running the ball behind Fiammetta. In that stretch we saw what the offense could do with blocking - Murray was averaging 6 ypc and Romo was tearing defenses apart now that he could pass against defenses afraid of the run. This is the way our offense is supposed to run and can't operate properly with an OL that isn't opening up holes consistently and can't pass block for 3 seconds consistently.

Now you can blame Garrett for not doing a better job patching the OL but you have to also remember we had a bunch of declining overpaid vets who weren't playing much better in 2010. We also had very little cap space because of all those overpaid vets and we had to carry money over into this season to deal with all the dead cap money that cutting said vets was going to impose on the 2012 salary cap. I think we ended up with about 23M dead cap and carried forward around 16M of unused space to have a net loss of 7M for the year plus the 5M league penalty which made us play this year at 12M down. If Garrett didn't play shorthanded last year we would have had a cap deficit of 28M this year. So Garrett took most of the hit in the rebuilding year so he could play with a better cap situation in the year when we had a better chance of winning which speaks to good discipline and long-term planning.

When I look at this team I think it is our most complete roster top to bottom since 1995. We are super-weak at any position outside of Center. We have good prospects almost everywhere now for the future except QB and TE where we happen to have Pro Bowlers and an excellent backup QB. All the malcontents have now been eliminated from the roster and there is no sign of cancer recurrence at this stage after another offseason. Jerry managed to control his wallet and the investments we made were fairly sound and despite the calls from the media and fans he didn't over-react to the weak interior OL as he always would have done in the past. He kept his focus on the overall team and most good teams cannot spend a fortune at interior OL without then losing players elsewhere. Garrett convinced Jones to invest in underrated interior OL who Callahan can patch together into a functional unit without breaking the bank and without putting in progress stoppers in front of some promising kids we brought in last year.

So overall I like what we had done pesonnel-wise.

In terms of coaching, he brought in an OC, thankfully. He really needed one last year and was spreading himself too thin leading to bad decisions like in the Cards game you alluded to. He got rid of our worst asst. coach Campo and brought in a very good DB coach who will try to fix the weakest unit on the team. This guy did a great job in Cleveland and is familiar with Ryan so I am expecting good things. He brought in Callahan to be OL coach and he is known for doing an excellent job on the OL and at OC but he is just a bad head coach. I think Callahan will do a great job for us, too.

In terms of team governance, I think he has put together a good group of guys. I think he has brought in some kids who will be good leaders for the future like Sean Lee and Dan Connor. All the troublemakers are gone so I expect a strong lockerroom this year.

I am very hopeful about this team. I do agree there were some questionable moments from last year, especially the Cards game. However, I also saw a lot of good decisions in the background that have put is in a good position to succeed this year. I also see evidence of a coach who looks at his flaws and then tries to correct them instead of denying them. I think this approach won him some converts in the lockerroom and this is firmly his team now whereas I thought he was having some trouble getting buy in from the defense early last year.

I look forward to a good year. I think we can contend for a playoff spot with this roster but the Eagles and Giants will both be very strong and the schedule is difficult. I think the offense will be a juggernaut and the defense can be a top 5-10 unit. I am hoping for 10-11 wins.

So to answer the question, yes I think Garrett will be better this year. No I don't think he put up the worst coaching job in history last year. I would say it was a mediocre year and grade him a B- overall.
 

jswalker1981

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Afigueroa22;4555678 said:
I agree, look at what Harbaugh did with San Fran.

I didn't know we had the same defense that SF did. Also didn't realize we played in the same weak *** division as SF.
 

CoCo

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Chocolate Lab;4555746 said:
Apparently not. The last coach we had, or really the last two coaches we had, got ripped all the time.

But they weren't the golden boys in the family portrait, so it was okay, even encouraged, to rip them. This one? Nope, he's pretty much hands off.

The fact is, last year was full of literally historic collapses, and any coach presiding over that would get criticized. Yet all you hear about RJ is "full offseason" or "wrong players" or "process". What's he done to earn special treatment? It sure isn't the track record.

I think you'd have a pretty difficult time making a case that Garrett has been more hands-off than Parcells, in particular during their debut years.

Given his down-home demeanor and checkered HC past Wade walked in the door to critics. But frankly they had a hard time getting much traction in the 13-3 debut season.

And given that Garrett has been 5-3 & then 8-8, following the 1-7 start with a roster that many have decried for years was absent discipline and football smarts, I don't think there ought to be a groundswell of anti-Garrett feeling at this point. Other than a couple controversial in-game moments I think most who comment on the NFL for a living probably see him as reasonably sound, to jury's still out. He's hardly got the horrible reputation the OP contends he should have.

I know it rubs you wrong that Garrett got the HC job when you think he's not as qualified as some claim him to be. But that stance loses umph pretty quick when you recall he had offers to coach both the Ravens & Falcons a year and a half before he got an opportunity because the Wade crashed horribly mid-season. Garrett delivered 5-3 from a 1-7 start which earned him a longer leash. And I know you attach caveat's to that as well. "Typical HC fired rebound" & "but Garrett was part of 1-7 too."

I really like your football observations CL. But when it comes to Garrett your opinions tend to slant negatively.
 

Gaede

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Eskimo;4555764 said:
So to answer the question, yes I think Garrett will be better this year. No I don't think he put up the worst coaching job in history last year. I would say it was a mediocre year and grade him a B- overall.

That's pretty fair.

He's a smart guy that made some pretty stupid mistakes last year.

I don't like his playcalling. Never have. That'll probably never change either. Our offense is still productive, so maybe I just need to get over the shotgun stuff.

But I'm still hopeful--kinda betting on one more year of experience in addition to Callahan being on staff making him better
 

burmafrd

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Eskimo;4555764 said:
1. Romo wasn't taking pain meds but he was taking a nerve block in the ribs prior to the games. Romo was playing well and making enough good decisions to put us in the lead that day. Carpenter made a good play on an ill-advised throw and we probably didn't need to be running that deep in our own end with a 3 TD lead so I'll concede the point to some degree. However, at that time in the year we could not run the ball consistently and our defense is not good enough to defend against a powerhouse offense with a whole run of 3 and outs from the offense. We probably needed to keep throwing but Romo needed to make better decisions in that game understanding the circumstances.

2. Now at the end of the NE game Garrett appropriately ran the first 2 times but lost 3 yards and got a penalty making it 3rd and 18 if I remember correctly. It is very hard to convert a 3rd and 12+ yards - moreso if you are on the road, have a QB with bad ribs and your top 2 WRs are dinged up and you just lost your #1 RB. You have an injured QB playing behind a young and inexperienced OL against a team that won 14 games the year before and was on their way to another SB appearance. You also have your star QB coming off a game where he was crucified by the media for 3 INTs in the second half.

I really think Garrett had no choice but to run a low-risk play on 3rd down there. I don't really disagree with running it on first and second down to take a bit of time off the clock but ideally you would be in 3rd and 5 and not 3rd and 15.

At that time in Garrett's and Romo's career I really can't fault the playcalling but it was a matter of poor blocking from the OL.

The defense could have still held them and had a whole field to defend which they couldn't do.

3. In the Cardinals game he should have tried to get more yards there but got too conservative given the amount of time left in the game. 5-10 more yards makes for an easier FG for Bailey. I think the decision was wrong.

In the end, I think Garrett's biggest problem all season was a very inconsistent OL that gave up a lot of sacks, hits and pressures. Our whole gameplan seemed to be set around getting the ball out of Romo's hands before something bad happened and these tendencies actually allowed defenses to get very aggressive against us knowing this.

You have to remember we had a spurt where we played well with Murray running the ball behind Fiammetta. In that stretch we saw what the offense could do with blocking - Murray was averaging 6 ypc and Romo was tearing defenses apart now that he could pass against defenses afraid of the run. This is the way our offense is supposed to run and can't operate properly with an OL that isn't opening up holes consistently and can't pass block for 3 seconds consistently.

Now you can blame Garrett for not doing a better job patching the OL but you have to also remember we had a bunch of declining overpaid vets who weren't playing much better in 2010. We also had very little cap space because of all those overpaid vets and we had to carry money over into this season to deal with all the dead cap money that cutting said vets was going to impose on the 2012 salary cap. I think we ended up with about 23M dead cap and carried forward around 16M of unused space to have a net loss of 7M for the year plus the 5M league penalty which made us play this year at 12M down. If Garrett didn't play shorthanded last year we would have had a cap deficit of 28M this year. So Garrett took most of the hit in the rebuilding year so he could play with a better cap situation in the year when we had a better chance of winning which speaks to good discipline and long-term planning.

When I look at this team I think it is our most complete roster top to bottom since 1995. We are super-weak at any position outside of Center. We have good prospects almost everywhere now for the future except QB and TE where we happen to have Pro Bowlers and an excellent backup QB. All the malcontents have now been eliminated from the roster and there is no sign of cancer recurrence at this stage after another offseason. Jerry managed to control his wallet and the investments we made were fairly sound and despite the calls from the media and fans he didn't over-react to the weak interior OL as he always would have done in the past. He kept his focus on the overall team and most good teams cannot spend a fortune at interior OL without then losing players elsewhere. Garrett convinced Jones to invest in underrated interior OL who Callahan can patch together into a functional unit without breaking the bank and without putting in progress stoppers in front of some promising kids we brought in last year.

So overall I like what we had done pesonnel-wise.

In terms of coaching, he brought in an OC, thankfully. He really needed one last year and was spreading himself too thin leading to bad decisions like in the Cards game you alluded to. He got rid of our worst asst. coach Campo and brought in a very good DB coach who will try to fix the weakest unit on the team. This guy did a great job in Cleveland and is familiar with Ryan so I am expecting good things. He brought in Callahan to be OL coach and he is known for doing an excellent job on the OL and at OC but he is just a bad head coach. I think Callahan will do a great job for us, too.

In terms of team governance, I think he has put together a good group of guys. I think he has brought in some kids who will be good leaders for the future like Sean Lee and Dan Connor. All the troublemakers are gone so I expect a strong lockerroom this year.

I am very hopeful about this team. I do agree there were some questionable moments from last year, especially the Cards game. However, I also saw a lot of good decisions in the background that have put is in a good position to succeed this year. I also see evidence of a coach who looks at his flaws and then tries to correct them instead of denying them. I think this approach won him some converts in the lockerroom and this is firmly his team now whereas I thought he was having some trouble getting buy in from the defense early last year.

I look forward to a good year. I think we can contend for a playoff spot with this roster but the Eagles and Giants will both be very strong and the schedule is difficult. I think the offense will be a juggernaut and the defense can be a top 5-10 unit. I am hoping for 10-11 wins.

So to answer the question, yes I think Garrett will be better this year. No I don't think he put up the worst coaching job in history last year. I would say it was a mediocre year and grade him a B- overall.


I agree with most of what you said except for the Oline. I saw no promising kids there. Clearly Gurode was the one that was the big mistake in being let go but I wonder how much money was involved there; clearly it was a huge mistake thinking Costa was an NFL starting center. Who ever made THAT judgement is really the main culprit.
 

Wimbo

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CowboyMcCoy;4555671 said:
1)Detroit--Romo has broken ribs. Garrett calls pass one too many times. Romo airs it out while likely on pain medication and, viola, a toss to Bobby Carpenter to blow the biggest lead ever blown in Cowboy's history.

That's quite an accomplishment.

2) New England--Garrett calls 3 straight run plays and gives the ball back to Brady

3)Cardinals--Time out. Need I say more?

We should have made the playoffs last year. The only real reason we didn't is because we don't have a real coach. I seriously don't think this guy is cut out for head coaching duties.

Ok, wait. Look at your #1 and your #2. New England and Detroit were the number 3 and 4 scoring Offenses in the league, with 32.1 and 29.6 points per game, respectively. And you are complaining because in one game were too aggressive with a lead, and in the other game we were too conservative with the lead? For real? Pick one & stick with it. Cant take both sides of this argument.

And #3? Did you not see the kicking coach screaming in JG's ear to call time out?
 

texbumthelife

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The reality is this team was 8-8 last season so if all this rides on Garrett than he made just as many good decisions as he did poor decisions. The difference is the good decisions go unnoticed in the course of the game while the poor ones stand out.

All he has to do is improve a little with his clock management and we are a cool two games better. That doesn't even take into account the significant talent upgrade on defense.

The best part is that Garrett actually has pull with Jerry and has been able to trim the fat on the roster. Your adherence to your negativity is noble, but your opinion really is just that. It bares no more weight and has no more credibility or evidence than the opposite at this time.
 

Doomsday101

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CowboyMcCoy;4555726 said:
I'm guessing by "degenerate" you mean that you or someone will close it, because it isn't a popular viewpoint even though it's the reality of our situation.

Aside from your views, it is an honest question. Some might even answer, "not bad at all. He'll be good."

But you don't see many that can actually defend him for being bad based on facts. I can give you many reason why he is bad.

My question is how bad will he be next year? Very bad, sort of bad.. not bad at all?

Should I have asked how good he will be next year?

I think if you look at many coaches they have gone through ups and downs. Hell Sean Payton had play calling taken from him in NY, I'm sure his critics did not think he was much of a HC but he proved a lot of his critics wrong and funny thing is many of the critics would not know the 1st thing about coaching. Bottom line comes down to winning and losing, if the team fails to improve then his time as HC will be limited
 

texbumthelife

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Doomsday101;4555789 said:
I think if you look at many coaches they have gone through ups and downs. Hell Sean Payton had play calling taken from him in NY, I'm sure his critics did not think he was much of a HC but he proved a lot of his critics wrong and funny thing is many of the critics would not know the 1st thing about coaching. Bottom line comes down to winning and losing, if the team fails to improve then his time as HC will be limited

Hell, Tom Coughlin has been on his last leg in NY several times and the guy has won 2/3 Super Bowls!
 

iceberg

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texbumthelife;4555787 said:
Your adherence to your negativity is annoying, but your opinion really is just that. It bares no more weight and has no more credibility or evidence than the opposite at this time.

:cool:
 

Doomsday101

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texbumthelife;4555791 said:
Hell, Tom Coughlin has been on his last leg in NY several times and the guy has won 2/3 Super Bowls!

It is the nature of the business. Belicheck did not look all world in Cleveland
 
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