Hill: Monte Kiffen won't force cover 2 scheme...interviewed w/JG and JG today

DC Cowboy · Jan 10, 2013

TheCoolFan;4957548 said:
I hope he's still got something left in the tank because his defense could NOT stop any of the spread offenses in the SEC/Pac-12. And considering how the NFL offenses will continue to try to be innovative and adopt college schemes, this could be bad timing!

Doubt seriously if he had two corners at USC like we have at Dallas.

gimmesix · Jan 11, 2013

RS12;4958454 said:
Monte's forte is cover 2. Why would they bring him hear to do anything else? Makes no sense that would do anything else, otherwise why bring him.

No. His forte is 4-3 Under, as another thread on here shows. That alignment isn't predicated on playing Cover-2.

I think he will use it at least to some extent, though, because we've got talented starting corners who can thrive in any system.

Bluestang · Jan 11, 2013

I think alot of people have some misconceptions about Tampa 2/Cover 2.

The difference is the Tampa 2 is a variation of the Cover 2 where the ILB helps cover the void that both Safeties can't cover in the middle. He's has that deep middle responsibility where the Safeties can cover their zones on their respective sides of the field. It's basically a Cover 3 concept but the ILB is playing underneath. The Tampa 2 was invented to cover for the shortcomings of a straight Cover 2 where the weakness is to split the Safeties. That's why the ILB has the deep middle responsibility.

The coverage of the corners is solely up to how the coordinator wants to play them but they do play alot of outside leverage to force the routes to the middle where the help is.

The confusion lies in what kind of technique the corners will play in. Ryan didn't use a lot of press coverage like we thought he would and Kiffin's scheme is flexible enough to play any type of technique whether it is off, press, press-bail in a zone or man call. Claiborne played an almost exclusive Cover 2 at LSU so there's really no issue with him nor should it be with Carr who excels at both zone/man.

The real problem that you should be arguing about is the changes that need to be done on the DL in order to generate pressure, turnovers, sacks, etc. On paper it seems like we have a decent group but you need depth and talent to carry you through a full season.

morasp · Jan 11, 2013

CrazyCowboy;4957545 said:
So, what do they do "best"?

I assume, "man-to-man" coverage? I hope they are up in the wr's face vs 10 yds back.

Interceptions

Zaxor · Jan 11, 2013

Bluestang;4958577 said:
I think alot of people have some misconceptions about Tampa 2/Cover 2.

The difference is the Tampa 2 is a variation of the Cover 2 where the ILB helps cover the void that both Safeties can't cover in the middle. He's has that deep middle responsibility where the Safeties can cover their zones on their respective sides of the field. It's basically a Cover 3 concept but the ILB is playing underneath. The Tampa 2 was invented to cover for the shortcomings of a straight Cover 2 where the weakness is to split the Safeties. That's why the ILB has the deep middle responsibility.

The coverage of the corners is solely up to how the coordinator wants to play them but they do play alot of outside leverage to force the routes to the middle where the help is.

The confusion lies in what kind of technique the corners will play in. Ryan didn't use a lot of press coverage like we thought he would and Kiffin's scheme is flexible enough to play any type of technique whether it is off, press, press-bail in a zone or man call. Claiborne played an almost exclusive Cover 2 at LSU so there's really no issue with him nor should it be with Carr who excels at both zone/man.

The real problem that you should be arguing about is the changes that need to be done on the DL in order to generate pressure, turnovers, sacks, etc. On paper it seems like we have a decent group but you need depth and talent to carry you through a full season.

Bingo

I would also like to point out that with Kiffen his schemes were never complex and there weren't many variations...so the teams he had did the same things over and over and over again and they got very good at it and became scheme smart (which shouldn't be taken lightly)knowing which ways offenses's were trying to attack it.

Miller · Jan 11, 2013

Bluestang;4958577 said:
I think alot of people have some misconceptions about Tampa 2/Cover 2.

The difference is the Tampa 2 is a variation of the Cover 2 where the ILB helps cover the void that both Safeties can't cover in the middle. He's has that deep middle responsibility where the Safeties can cover their zones on their respective sides of the field. It's basically a Cover 3 concept but the ILB is playing underneath. The Tampa 2 was invented to cover for the shortcomings of a straight Cover 2 where the weakness is to split the Safeties. That's why the ILB has the deep middle responsibility.

The coverage of the corners is solely up to how the coordinator wants to play them but they do play alot of outside leverage to force the routes to the middle where the help is.

The confusion lies in what kind of technique the corners will play in. Ryan didn't use a lot of press coverage like we thought he would and Kiffin's scheme is flexible enough to play any type of technique whether it is off, press, press-bail in a zone or man call. Claiborne played an almost exclusive Cover 2 at LSU so there's really no issue with him nor should it be with Carr who excels at both zone/man.

The real problem that you should be arguing about is the changes that need to be done on the DL in order to generate pressure, turnovers, sacks, etc. On paper it seems like we have a decent group but you need depth and talent to carry you through a full season.

Another real problem is you need good, smart safeties to play it. We have nine that I'd call either.

StanleySpadowski · Jan 11, 2013

Bluestang;4958577 said:
I think alot of people have some misconceptions about Tampa 2/Cover 2.

The difference is the Tampa 2 is a variation of the Cover 2 where the ILB helps cover the void that both Safeties can't cover in the middle. He's has that deep middle responsibility where the Safeties can cover their zones on their respective sides of the field. It's basically a Cover 3 concept but the ILB is playing underneath. The Tampa 2 was invented to cover for the shortcomings of a straight Cover 2 where the weakness is to split the Safeties. That's why the ILB has the deep middle responsibility.

The coverage of the corners is solely up to how the coordinator wants to play them but they do play alot of outside leverage to force the routes to the middle where the help is.

The confusion lies in what kind of technique the corners will play in. Ryan didn't use a lot of press coverage like we thought he would and Kiffin's scheme is flexible enough to play any type of technique whether it is off, press, press-bail in a zone or man call. Claiborne played an almost exclusive Cover 2 at LSU so there's really no issue with him nor should it be with Carr who excels at both zone/man.

The real problem that you should be arguing about is the changes that need to be done on the DL in order to generate pressure, turnovers, sacks, etc. On paper it seems like we have a decent group but you need depth and talent to carry you through a full season.

Very salient points. It's amazing how misunderstood various schemes are by a majority of posters.

Hostile · Jan 11, 2013

I keep hearing the Safety stuff, and I am even guilty of it myself a little. Quick, without looking it up, name the Bears Safeties during the Lovie years.

More than 3 right will be damned impressive.

I think too much credit is handed to John Lynch. He didn't make the system, the system made him, and I certainly don't recall his track star speed. It was his aggression that made him so good. Remember when his cleaned John Allred's clock when he was TE for the Bears. Allred was his brother-in-law?

Miller · Jan 11, 2013

Hostile;4958700 said:
I keep hearing the Safety stuff, and I am even guilty of it myself a little. Quick, without looking it up, name the Bears Safeties during the Lovie years.

More than 3 right will be damned impressive.

I think too much credit is handed to John Lynch. He didn't make the system, the system made him, and I certainly don't recall his track star speed. It was his aggression that made him so good. Remember when his cleaned John Allred's clock when he was TE for the Bears. Allred was his brother-in-law?

I always thought Mike Brown helped make that D go with Urlacher. A lot of the safety talk I've heard is actually here in Chicago. One of the fellow attys here talks to me about Bears football daily. It was the first thing out of his mouth when discussing Lovie's D. They might not be well known safeties but I think they play smart within the system. That was this guys point. A lot of that D was predicated on smart/minimize mistakes type guys than just best athlete back there. Major Wright and Chris Conte did pretty well for them this year. Both guys were pretty high picks in 2010 and 2011

StanleySpadowski · Jan 11, 2013

Hostile;4958700 said:
I keep hearing the Safety stuff, and I am even guilty of it myself a little. Quick, without looking it up, name the Bears Safeties during the Lovie years.

More than 3 right will be damned impressive.

I think too much credit is handed to John Lynch. He didn't make the system, the system made him, and I certainly don't recall his track star speed. It was his aggression that made him so good. Remember when his cleaned John Allred's clock when he was TE for the Bears. Allred was his brother-in-law?

The key to the Tampa-2 is quick processing LBs. LBs who read the play quickly get deeper into their zones, which gives the Safeties a split second more.

It's hard to name the safeties in most quality Cover-2 variants but it's easy to name the LBs because those are the players who make and break that defense, along with CBs who aren't afraid to tackle.

Miller · Jan 11, 2013

StanleySpadowski;4958764 said:
The key to the Tampa-2 is quick processing LBs. LBs who read the play quickly get deeper into their zones, which gives the Safeties a split second more.

It's hard to name the safeties in most quality Cover-2 variants but it's easy to name the LBs because those are the players who make and break that defense, along with CBs who aren't afraid to tackle.

Again, I think a lot of people know Mike Brown and what he did at playing safety. But they know Urlacher more. But they go hand in hand.

Irving Cowboy · Jan 11, 2013

Hostile;4958443 said:
He did.

Source?

Hostile · Jan 11, 2013

StanleySpadowski;4958764 said:
The key to the Tampa-2 is quick processing LBs. LBs who read the play quickly get deeper into their zones, which gives the Safeties a split second more.

It's hard to name the safeties in most quality Cover-2 variants but it's easy to name the LBs because those are the players who make and break that defense, along with CBs who aren't afraid to tackle.

I agree, and Lee and Carter do this so well.

Boys122 · Jan 11, 2013

StanleySpadowski;4958764 said:
The key to the Tampa-2 is quick processing LBs. LBs who read the play quickly get deeper into their zones, which gives the Safeties a split second more.

It's hard to name the safeties in most quality Cover-2 variants but it's easy to name the LBs because those are the players who make and break that defense, along with CBs who aren't afraid to tackle.

So you're fine with Sensabaugh and Church as our safeties in the 4-3?

StanleySpadowski · Jan 11, 2013

HoustonFrog;4958785 said:
Again, I think a lot of people know Mike Brown and what he did at playing safety. But they know Urlacher more. But they go hand in hand.

I'm not saying safety play isn't important but it's not the deal breaker in the Tampa-2. LBs who process the play quickly are.

If you listed the important components of the Tampa-2 that would make someone like Kiffen interested in what he could do in Dallas, safety would be down the list. RDE, MLB, WLB, CB, CB and 1 tech are the most important. Dallas has those positions covered with the possible exception of the 1 technique.

If I was a DC who was looking to implement a Tampa-2 variant, Dallas and San Francisco would be the two 3-4 teams that would most interest me.

Yoshimitsu · Jan 11, 2013

Boys122;4958855 said:
So you're fine with Sensabaugh and Church as our safeties in the 4-3?

Yes they are not as bad as every makes them seem. Sensy play dropped dramatically when Church went out. Danny McCray was a piss poor partner at safety. Barry Church looks promising the only question is how will he bounce back from his injury?

InmanRoshi · Jan 11, 2013

Boys122;4958855 said:
So you're fine with Sensabaugh and Church as our safeties in the 4-3?

You're fine with Sensabaugh and Church as our safeties in a 3-4?

There's no system in the NFL that couldn't use great safeties. That doesn't mean they're a necessity to effectively run the system, as Chicago showed this year with Major Wright,Chris Conte and Troy Nolan.

Yoshimitsu · Jan 11, 2013

StanleySpadowski;4958863 said:
I'm not saying safety play isn't important but it's not the deal breaker in the Tampa-2. LBs who process the play quickly are.

If you listed the important components of the Tampa-2 that would make someone like Kiffen interested in what he could do in Dallas, safety would be down the list. RDE, MLB, WLB, CB, CB and 1 tech are the most important. Dallas has those positions covered with the possible exception of the 1 technique.

If I was a DC who was looking to implement a Tampa-2 variant, Dallas and San Francisco would be the two 3-4 teams that would most interest me.

Which is why I hope we draft a big plugger for the middle. It would free up a lot of things and keep guys like Lee healthy.

StanleySpadowski · Jan 11, 2013

Boys122;4958855 said:
So you're fine with Sensabaugh and Church as our safeties in the 4-3?

I'm not sure I understand what Sensabaugh and Church have to do with 4-3 or 3-4. Dallas needs an upgrade of the safety play in '12. I don't know if Church is enough of an upgrade in the limited time I've seen him and I have no idea of what Johnson is capable.

I do see either as a significant upgrade over McCray or whatever street free agent they trotted out at times but I don't know if that's enough.

InmanRoshi · Jan 11, 2013

HoustonFrog;4958785 said:
Again, I think a lot of people know Mike Brown and what he did at playing safety. But they know Urlacher more. But they go hand in hand.

They haven't gone hand in hand since 2008.

Hill: Monte Kiffen won't force cover 2 scheme...interviewed w/JG and JG today

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