Why Escobar?

xwalker · Apr 28, 2013

StanleySpadowski;5069759 said:
TEs are part of both the receiving corps and the OL.

TE blocking was almost as big an issue as C and a bigger problem than T play. Witten had his worst blocking year, Phillips wasn't a very good blocker and Hanna was really, really bad but does deserve something of a pass due to his rookie year/lack of strength.

Yes, many runs failed due to a failed block by a TE. Mostly by Phillips, but Witten had a few also. Hanna didn't block often enough to really matter, but he did get better as the season progressed in the limited snaps that he received.

I expect them to carry 4 TEs on the roster. They most likely will carry a blocking TE. They have often carried 6 WRs, but 4 TEs will probably limit that to 5. You could basically think of Hanna as a big WR. At 6'3-3/4", 250, they could use Hanna in the backfield like they tried to do with Phillips. At 6-6, Phillips struggled in that role, but Hanna should be a better fit physically.

wileedog · Apr 28, 2013

StanleySpadowski;5069759 said:
TEs are part of both the receiving corps and the OL.

TE blocking was almost as big an issue as C and a bigger problem than T play. Witten had his worst blocking year, Phillips wasn't a very good blocker and Hanna was really, really bad but does deserve something of a pass due to his rookie year/lack of strength.

So how does drafting another TE who can't block help that?

I would readily agree to this point and feel better about the pick if Escobar was a Witten clone. But he's not, he's a receiving specialist specifically called out in scouting reports as a terrible blocker.

speedkilz88 · Apr 28, 2013

Eskimo;5069658 said:
Based on what was available in the second round I would have suggested a DL myself as there were still a few good ones there.

I kind of thought that one of the 3rd rounders and the 4th rounder might get used on DL and OL but I must presume they didn't like the available players for whatever reason.

At the end of the day, many teams have put together functional offensive lines without having to invest huge resources. It just seems like we haven't been able to do since about 1997 and it suggests some sort of organizational failure. The two years where we seemed to have decent OL play in 2006-7 we actually played really well but that group of vets and FAs got old really quickly and fell apart and we had no one behind them.

I really think that something has to be done about the scouts sho seem to constantly have OL graded lower than the rest of the league for some reason. Maybe everyone is over-drafting them but then to have a functional unit you either have to pay in FA to acquire some good ones, develop some from mid-round picks and castoffs or devote more draft resources to the problem when reasonable value is available.

I hope they are right about not needing many draftees to solidify the OL but I'm going to be skeptical until I see them playing well on gameday.

Hankins was the only 2nd round DT after their pick and he didn't fit the scheme. They would have had to reach for Logan or Hill, the guys they did like in Kiffin's scheme. RB looked to be the position they could have gone with Lacy and Ball still there.

Woods · Apr 28, 2013

FiveRings;5069743 said:
All of the cases he listed were of teams with solid O Lines already in place. We don't have the luxury to neglect addressing the trenches. And in the Broncos case, neither of those TEs were draft picks.

The only devils advocate i can play is maybe were molding after say the Packers O, extremely one dimensional with the pass, yet do potent with weapons it can't be stopped. And is that IS the case, I'm still not in favor of it because Rodgers is better than Romo, and you need a running game to go deep in December/January

IF we can get a guy like Clabo to play RT, I think our OL, assuming we stay healthy, will be much improved.

Heck, last year they couldn't even practice together during TC or pre-season due to all the injuries.

CoCo · Apr 28, 2013

Woods;5069780 said:
IF we can get a guy like Clabo to play RT, I think our OL, assuming we stay healthy, will be much improved.

Heck, last year they couldn't even practice together during TC or pre-season due to all the injuries.

I do agree that our O-line may yet surprise. Smith & Frederick will be the anchors but I am interested to see how competition settles the rest of the interior. Costa, Livings, Bernadeau, Kowalski & Leary compete for two starting spots. Perhaps Parnell can continue to progress. Moore & Clabo as FA possibilities.

But make no mistake about it, it is long past time to fix the O-line problems. Three years running so far. And I'm not going to be real happy if they fail again in 2013 only to hear silly refrains of why we couldn't have spent more draft resources on that area. It's nonsense. We could have.

My goodness I am hearing people give finding a replacement for Witten as a reason. Are you kidding me? If you're going to use that rationale then you better be saying the exact same thing about replacing Ware, Ratliff and even Romo.

Galian Beast · Apr 28, 2013

The reality that people want to ignore is by the end of the season the offensive line was pass blocking a lot better. There are specific individuals that needed to be addressed, and they are being addressed.

But to suggest that the entire line was garbage throughout the year isn't really accurate. Tony Romo had a hell of a second half season behind that line. Improving certain spots will simply make that more consistent and take it to another level. Giving him more weapons though, will open up that offense, something that EVERYONE here was clamoring for last year.

FLcowboy · Apr 28, 2013

I looked at the 2012 offense as being somewhat limited. I think these additions make it a much bigger threat. A high scoring offense can bail out a poor defense. I also understand defenses win Super Bowls, but the Ravens' offense won last year's SB.

I hoped for a DL person in the draft, but apparently management doesn't the need. It will be interesting to see how many new guys show up on the practice squad.

speedkilz88 · Apr 28, 2013

FLcowboy;5069843 said:
I looked at the 2012 offense as being somewhat limited. I think these additions make it a much bigger threat. A high scoring offense can bail out a poor defense. I also understand defenses win Super Bowls, but the Ravens' offense won last year's SB.

I hoped for a DL person in the draft, but apparently management doesn't the need. It will be interesting to see how many new guys show up on the practice squad.

I think they liked Logan in the 4th and Hill maybe there or in the 5th. They both ended up in the 3rd.

big dog cowboy · Apr 28, 2013

FiveRings;5069743 said:
The only devils advocate i can play is maybe were molding after say the Packers O, extremely one dimensional with the pass, yet do potent with weapons it can't be stopped. And is that IS the case, I'm still not in favor of it because Rodgers is better than Romo, and you need a running game to go deep in December/January

This tells me you didn't spend any time reading or listening to explainations given by the FO. Their approach to this draft was different than yours and instead of finding out why they did what they did you question what they did.

StanleySpadowski · Apr 28, 2013

wileedog;5069773 said:
So how does drafting another TE who can't block help that?

I would readily agree to this point and feel better about the pick if Escobar was a Witten clone. But he's not, he's a receiving specialist specifically called out in scouting reports as a terrible blocker.

Go back and read Witten's scouting reports when he was a draft prospect.

I said even before he was drafted by the Cowboys that Escobar's blocking was severely underrated. He's not a terrible blocker but there's a lot of room for improvement as almost all of his issues are technique.

TEs have the longest transition time in the NFL. Not only are they learning to run routes at the next level but block as well. This also factors in to college level players as practice time restrictions really limit players from becoming complete TEs. I don't know that there's been a "complete" TE prospect in a decade. Even this year's top draftee in Eifert has a few issues with route running and blocking.

Escobar has the brains and physical talent to be a solid blocker. The only question is whether or not he has the work ethic to complete that phase of his game. From everything I've heard, I think he does.

StanleySpadowski · Apr 28, 2013

Galian Beast;5069824 said:
The reality that people want to ignore is by the end of the season the offensive line was pass blocking a lot better. There are specific individuals that needed to be addressed, and they are being addressed.

But to suggest that the entire line was garbage throughout the year isn't really accurate. Tony Romo had a hell of a second half season behind that line. Improving certain spots will simply make that more consistent and take it to another level. Giving him more weapons though, will open up that offense, something that EVERYONE here was clamoring for last year.

Another aspect when complaining about blocking in the run game that everyone seems to forget is how terrible the RB play was last year. Murray was it and he wasn't healthy. Jones showed up slow and out of shape and never had any burst. No disrespect to him, but guys like Dunbar just aren't very good NFL players. It doesn't matter if you could drive a truck through the hole if the RB didn't hit that hole.

myslamsareolder · Apr 28, 2013

wileedog;5069773 said:
So how does drafting another TE who can't block help that?

I would readily agree to this point and feel better about the pick if Escobar was a Witten clone. But he's not, he's a receiving specialist specifically called out in scouting reports as a terrible blocker.

No one called him a terrible blocker. There is a big difference between him and Hanna. I don't love the pick either, but Escobar is pretty identical to Witten actually. Witten was not a great blocker in college either he was a pass catching specialist, but just like Escobar he had the tools to develop into a good blocker. Hanna will never be a good blocker. He is a Hernandez type. Think of it like this: Escobar is Wittens replacement and Hanna will hopefully fill Escobars role. I'm a big Hanna fan.

Mr Cowboy · Apr 28, 2013

myslamsareolder;5069897 said:
No one called him a terrible blocker. There is a big difference between him and Hanna. I don't love the pick either, but Escobar is pretty identical to Witten actually. Witten was not a great blocker in college either he was a pass catching specialist, but just like Escobar he had the tools to develop into a good blocker. Hanna will never be a good blocker. He is a Hernandez type. Think of it like this: Escobar is Wittens replacement and Hanna will hopefully fill Escobars role. I'm a big Hanna fan.

Escobar is a horrible blocker, and Witten has always been a good blocker, even coming out of college. Hanna' blocking improved significantly as the year progressed, and is a million times better than Escobar. The best you can ask for is for Escobar to hit the weights and learn to block.

Tezz · Apr 28, 2013

I didn't like many of the Cowboys picks, but I like Gavin Escobar. I think Escobar will always be a minus blocker, but that is okay because he was drafted as a move TE to cause mismatches with his combo of size, fluid movement and hands.

Idgit · Apr 28, 2013

Surprised to see so much push back over Escobar. I suppose I shouldn't be, because it was a weird pick in terms of the position group.

The team's already said they see him as a body type that's a fit for the Y receiver role, and that they think he'll develop into a good blocking and pass receiving threat.

He's a good player, and he let's us keep the 12 position group on the field on third downs without giving much up in terms of that 3rd receiver. He's insurance for that player grouping--one that we run a ton of--in case anything happens to Witten or Hanna during the season. And it lets us experiment with the 13 grouping--something I'm not all that excited about, but that Jerry Jones seemed pretty interested in.

In any event, they had him as the best player at that slot, and they took him. I'm not going to complain about that. It's better, in my opinion, than what we did by reaching for Frederick in the first.

StanleySpadowski · Apr 28, 2013

Mr Cowboy;5069944 said:
Escobar is a horrible blocker, and Witten has always been a good blocker, even coming out of college. Hanna' blocking improved significantly as the year progressed, and is a million times better than Escobar. The best you can ask for is for Escobar to hit the weights and learn to block.

What games did you notice Escobar's "horrible" blocking?

I'd be really interested in reviewing those games also because in the few I've seen that isn't the case.

fishspill · Apr 28, 2013

StanleySpadowski;5069968 said:
What games did you notice Escobar's "horrible" blocking?

I'd be really interested in reviewing those games also because in the few I've seen that isn't the case.

I wouldn't call his blocking a complete disaster, but it would be a stretch to characterize it as strength of his game.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMkWMsJMUwE

TheCount · Apr 28, 2013

StanleySpadowski;5069759 said:
TEs are part of both the receiving corps and the OL.

TE blocking was almost as big an issue as C and a bigger problem than T play. Witten had his worst blocking year, Phillips wasn't a very good blocker and Hanna was really, really bad but does deserve something of a pass due to his rookie year/lack of strength.

I understand all that, don't think I don't. However, I don't think a 2nd or 3rd TE is the answer to our blocking woes in the redzone and no one can say running out of receivers cost us games last year.

I think the salt in the wound is Jerry coming out of the draft saying we're going to shake things up and do things differently on offense. Like drafting a 2nd round TE and pimping two TE sets was some major shift in approach.

LynnFoster · Apr 28, 2013

Another thought on Escobar - when Murray was injured last year the team lost a lot of fairly close games because defenses keyed on the passing game. It was a lock the team would draft a RB.

But if you think that Dez is about to build on his breakout season to be a really dominant player, you would probably draft the two things that would give the offense every weapon possible - a deep threat WR and another receiving threat at TE. You would also start with a very strong interior lineman, which is what they did on all three counts in this draft.

FiveRings · Apr 28, 2013

fishspill;5070003 said:
I wouldn't call his blocking a complete disaster, but it would be a stretch to characterize it as strength of his game.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMkWMsJMUwE

Also take into consideration, blocking whatever DE say Washington State throws at you is night and day to having to block JPP or Orakpo

Why Escobar?

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