I had an interesting conversation about Free

AbeBeta · May 3, 2013

FuzzyLumpkins;5076518 said:
They do but it is so easy to circumvent.

then why would anyone every get caught if it was so easy to circumvent?

5Stars · May 3, 2013

AbeBeta;5076543 said:
then why would anyone every get caught if it was so easy to circumvent?

You and fuzzy sure like to fight, huh? :laugh2:

I guess that's why I like both of you.

ABQCOWBOY · May 3, 2013

AbeBeta;5076543 said:
then why would anyone every get caught if it was so easy to circumvent?

Because places like Balco get busted and they keep records of their patients. In the NFL, very few get caught but it does happen.

AbeBeta · May 3, 2013

5Stars;5076545 said:
You and fuzzy sure like to fight, huh? :laugh2:

I guess that's why I like both of you.

And if it was so easy to circumvent, why on earth would he have stopped taking them?

StanleySpadowski · May 3, 2013

This thread should be locked and deleted.

AbeBeta · May 3, 2013

ABQCOWBOY;5076546 said:
Because places like Balco get busted and they keep records of their patients. In the NFL, very few get caught but it does happen.

You can cite Balco if you want to talk about Bill Romanowski or other players from the late 90s and early 00s.

But Doug Free? He was a Freshman at Northern Illinois when they shut down.

ABQCOWBOY · May 3, 2013

AbeBeta;5076558 said:
You can cite Balco if you want to talk about Bill Romanowski or other players from the late 90s and early 00s.

But Doug Free? He was a Freshman at Northern Illinois when they shut down.

Actually, I sited places LIKE Balco. Those places are still alive and well and occasionally, the do get busted. I said nothing, at all, about Doug Free, one way or the other.

AbeBeta · May 3, 2013

ABQCOWBOY;5076561 said:
Actually, I sited places LIKE Balco. Those places are still alive and well and occasionally, the do get busted. I said nothing, at all, about Doug Free, one way or the other.

So over the last two years there was some sort of dramatic shift in PED service providers that caused players (such as Free) to stop taking them?

Gee, you'd think we would have heard something about that.

dwmyers · May 3, 2013

From Couchscout, when we asked this question 5 months ago..

http://cowboyszone.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4877829&postcount=25

An Excerpt..

Tape...every player in the league has to overcome their own tape. Free hasn't.

It all started last season against the 9ers, Justin Smith, the ultimate technician, took Free to school all day. He repeatedly beat him with his hands, Free just couldn't keep up with the handplay. Soon after every player he matched up against were using less speed or power rushes, and more hand fighting. They would literally run to him, let him put his hand on them, then chop them away and go pressure Romo. His hand speed, and hand strength are not good enough. So the tape on Free became "beat him with your hands, you don't even have to try to fool him or set him up, he can't keep a grip on anyone". Of course Free and the coaching staff went on a journey to improve Doug's hand speed, strength and placement. They've tried a variety of techniques, it's obvious from watching tape that they've had him trying many different things over the past 2 seasons. The problem now is, he's too messed up in the head. He's so worried about all the little details of what technique he's supposed to be using this week, he's reacting instead of dictating.

NJ22 · May 3, 2013

He was awful at left tackle in 2011. You can tell me poor left guard play had something to do with that, but he was bad. He got paid, and was never close to the same guy.
Not That I think this site is teh bible for these things, but here was their 2011 break down of the o-lines.
https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/02/23/ranking-the-2011-offensive-lines-part-2/

ABQCOWBOY;5076526 said:
I don't agree with this. He ws very good when he had a solid Guard in Kosier playing next to him. He was not nearly as good once Kosier was flipped to the other side/went down with injury. I don't believe that the reason he was moved was because Smith was better or he was worse. I think it was done because they thought Smith would be a great LT and so far, that hasn't happened.

ABQCOWBOY · May 3, 2013

AbeBeta;5076563 said:
So over the last two years there was some sort of dramatic shift in PED service providers that caused players (such as Free) to stop taking them?

Gee, you'd think we would have heard something about that.

I don't know. Perhaps you would be more knowledgeable about what Free is or is not doing. I have already said that I have no knowledge of Free using PEDs. Are you trying to bait me into saying some certain thing or what's the deal?

ABQCOWBOY · May 3, 2013

NJ22;5076567 said:
He was awful at left tackle in 2011. You can tell me poor left guard play had something to do with that, but he was bad. He got paid, and was never close to the same guy.

He got beat a lot to the inside in 2011. I actually think that he was exactly the same guy in 2011. He also didn't get nearly as much TE help in the passing game. The difference, at least in my opinion, was that Kosier helped to cover up those issues. Once Kosier was gone, they surfaced and you saw what Free's strengths and weakness' really were.

At least, that is my opinion of the matter.

NJ22 · May 3, 2013

He was getting beat a lot on the outside by speed rushers also. Check out the link below from 2011. Honestly when we drafted Smith, I was one of many who thought we were set for 8 years at tackle, after 2011, I was like Man what happened to this guy, well at least we can move him to the right side because we have Tyron..at this point we should move him to the curb. I don't remember a guy who did not have a major injury just declining like this.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/02/23/ranking-the-2011-offensive-lines-part-2/

ABQCOWBOY;5076572 said:
He got beat a lot to the inside in 2011. I actually think that he was exactly the same guy in 2011. He also didn't get nearly as much TE help in the passing game. The difference, at least in my opinion, was that Kosier helped to cover up those issues. Once Kosier was gone, they surfaced and you saw what Free's strengths and weakness' really were.

At least, that is my opinion of the matter.

AbeBeta · May 3, 2013

ABQCOWBOY;5076569 said:
I don't know. Perhaps you would be more knowledgeable about what Free is or is not doing. I have already said that I have no knowledge of Free using PEDs. Are you trying to bait me into saying some certain thing or what's the deal?

Just pointing out how you made a point that really had no relevance.

ABQCOWBOY · May 3, 2013

AbeBeta;5076593 said:
Just pointing out how you made a point that really had no relevance.

What point would that be?

AbeBeta · May 3, 2013

ABQCOWBOY;5076598 said:
What point would that be?

You proposed a reason for why a player would stop taking PEDs. I showed that your argument had the usual ABQ holes.

StanleySpadowski · May 4, 2013

I guess if this thread is OK.....

I can tell everyone about conversations I've had regarding Witten's drug use. He's so hopped up on painkillers during games that he can't remember his own name let alone a snap count. That's why he leads to world in false starts. Or Tyron Smith being a pothead so he gets the munchies to keep on weight.

skinsscalper · May 4, 2013

StanleySpadowski;5076882 said:
I guess if this thread is OK.....

I can tell everyone about conversations I've had regarding Witten's drug use. He's so hopped up on painkillers during games that he can't remember his own name let alone a snap count. That's why he leads to world in false starts. Or Tyron Smith being a pothead so he gets the munchies to keep on weight.

Nice try.

jobberone · May 4, 2013

NJ22;5076586 said:
He was getting beat a lot on the outside by speed rushers also. Check out the link below from 2011. Honestly when we drafted Smith, I was one of many who thought we were set for 8 years at tackle, after 2011, I was like Man what happened to this guy, well at least we can move him to the right side because we have Tyron..at this point we should move him to the curb. I don't remember a guy who did not have a major injury just declining like this.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/02/23/ranking-the-2011-offensive-lines-part-2/

He gave up 5 sacks in 2010, 9.5 in 2011, and 7 last year. He gave up 21, 34 and 41 pressures 2010-2012. I haven't gone back and looked at 2011 but he got beat for sacks equally inside and out in 2012. And most of his problem was bull rush not outside. So I doubt the outside problem 2011. Also his sacks weren't significantly up from 2010 in 2012. His pressures were but they weren't predominantly outside either. Both sacks and pressures are somewhat subjective esp pressures as an aside. So what's my point? The article you reference is subjective and IMO wrong.

I believe Free's pressures for 2012 are wrong and closer to 34 and 2011. Having said that his game is not the same as 2010 and his adjusted pressure rate has trended up. Since pressures Re more predictive than sacks there is cause for concern. But he's not playing worse than anyone except Smith.

GoCowboysGo · May 4, 2013

ABQCOWBOY;5076572 said:
He got beat a lot to the inside in 2011. I actually think that he was exactly the same guy in 2011. He also didn't get nearly as much TE help in the passing game. The difference, at least in my opinion, was that Kosier helped to cover up those issues. Once Kosier was gone, they surfaced and you saw what Free's strengths and weakness' really were.

At least, that is my opinion of the matter.

I remember the exact same thing, and his getting TE help ( I forgot how much guard help he needed).

This was talked about here and on the radio, whether or not he should be resigned because of those factors.

I got blasted in another thread for bringing those two issues up!

Thanks for remembering that, ABQ!

I had an interesting conversation about Free

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