American Cars

American cars all my life, I'm 28 BTW. 98 Mustang V6 back in high school, sold, but still going, despite the new owners neglect. 02 Chevy Z71, no issues, still own, damn good truck. 04 Chevy 2500 work truck, it gets abused, and no major issues. 02 Mustang GT, sold, but no major issues. Now a new 2014 Mustang GT, awesome car, 420 HP and a beast and a really nice car, interior quality is light years from the old 02.

IMO any car can last for a very long time as long as you follow what it says in the manual.

Anyways I have a 98 Ford Explorer manual transmission and it still runs great.

I have a Maxima which has been great but any new vehicle I buy will likely be a Ford unless the market changes. And I grew up a Chevy guy.

However, I generally don't buy new cars. I have to get another car for one of my daughters and I'm going to buy a salvaged Prius. I've never owned a salvaged car but some states will total a car which has not sustained major damage but the cost of repair is greater than 10% its worth. It's nothing to put a new hood, fender, quarter panel, or lights on these newer cars. I've had a Prius and it's hard to beat the quality and mileage.

Having said that most of the tried and true motors and transmissions last 250K these days if maintained. That's foreign and domestic. So pick a car you like that you can get a deal on and take care of it. It'll last a long time.

If you want a truck then I'd go with the 150 with the stock V6. Gets good mileage and has over 300 ftlbs torque. If you're going to pull something over 10,000 then get a diesel 250/2500. I like the Duramax but the Cummins is fine. Never had trouble with the later Ford PowerStroke diesels but have heard of problems with the recent ones. Not a fan of the foreign trucks as they cost too much IMO although great trucks esp the Tundra. Keep your money here for a truck.

Nomad;5089252 said:

I think the reputation that American cars break down easily is outdated or a stereotype. They may have earned it at one point and it is hard to shake off.

They also over exaggerate the supposed quality of foreign cars when selling to Americans to justify the extra cost.

I'm very loyal to Ford and don't ever have any problems out of the ordinary.

Get a Ford F-150 when you move to Texas and you will fit right in.(I'm slightly kidding we don't all drive trucks).

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You say it as it is a joke, but around here I can't think of the first adult man that drives a car everyday. It's a truck or SUV.

"American made" is a gray area these days. It really boils down to where the company is headquartered. For instance, the Toyota Camry (built down the road from me) is more "American made" than just about any car that Ford makes (one exception being the Explorer - also built in my state).

jobberone;5089906 said:

I have a Maxima which has been great but any new vehicle I buy will likely be a Ford unless the market changes. And I grew up a Chevy guy.

However, I generally don't buy new cars. I have to get another car for one of my daughters and I'm going to buy a salvaged Prius. I've never owned a salvaged car but some states will total a car which has not sustained major damage but the cost of repair is greater than 10% its worth. It's nothing to put a new hood, fender, quarter panel, or lights on these newer cars. I've had a Prius and it's hard to beat the quality and mileage.

Having said that most of the tried and true motors and transmissions last 250K these days if maintained. That's foreign and domestic. So pick a car you like that you can get a deal on and take care of it. It'll last a long time.

If you want a truck then I'd go with the 150 with the stock V6. Gets good mileage and has over 300 ftlbs torque. If you're going to pull something over 10,000 then get a diesel 250/2500. I like the Duramax but the Cummins is fine. Never had trouble with the later Ford PowerStroke diesels but have heard of problems with the recent ones. Not a fan of the foreign trucks as they cost too much IMO although great trucks esp the Tundra. Keep your money here for a truck.

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I bought two salvage cars and haven't had any issues besides the brakes. I wrecked one of them otherwise I would still have it.

The 2nd salvage car I bought, I'm still driving. There's some body stuff I need to do to it and I had to replace the brakes, but overall it drives fine.

All I did was study the carfax in depth to get a good read on what happened with both cars. The 2nd car was totaled twice, but never because of front end damage.

jobberone;5089906 said:

I have a Maxima which has been great but any new vehicle I buy will likely be a Ford unless the market changes. And I grew up a Chevy guy.

However, I generally don't buy new cars. I have to get another car for one of my daughters and I'm going to buy a salvaged Prius. I've never owned a salvaged car but some states will total a car which has not sustained major damage but the cost of repair is greater than 10% its worth. It's nothing to put a new hood, fender, quarter panel, or lights on these newer cars. I've had a Prius and it's hard to beat the quality and mileage.

Having said that most of the tried and true motors and transmissions last 250K these days if maintained. That's foreign and domestic. So pick a car you like that you can get a deal on and take care of it. It'll last a long time.

If you want a truck then I'd go with the 150 with the stock V6. Gets good mileage and has over 300 ftlbs torque. If you're going to pull something over 10,000 then get a diesel 250/2500. I like the Duramax but the Cummins is fine. Never had trouble with the later Ford PowerStroke diesels but have heard of problems with the recent ones. Not a fan of the foreign trucks as they cost too much IMO although great trucks esp the Tundra. Keep your money here for a truck.

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Just a note on diesel trucks. Diesel is way overrated unless its something you need for towing a lot of weight. With today's diesels' and the cost involved its not a good way to go unless its a necessity.

Diesel used to be good because of long term reliability with very little maintenance. You used to go 300K-500k miles using cheaper fuel than gas motors. That has changed.

Diesel trucks now have all kinds of issues with the injectors. And its not uncommon to destroy an engine due to injector failure. I know, becasue I had to do a new engine and injectors with my Cummins. The design flaw w/o any safeguards is huge. And it can happen simply from fuel contamination. So you end up with $2-3K for injectors, anywhere from $4-9K for an engine, and then labor on top of that. The risk of failure is ever present.

Fords with the PowerJoke are notoriously bad for injector issues. Its an issue with the Dodge and Cummins motors as well. The Duramax has basically the same Bosch injector used in the Dodge/Cummins. An upgraded fuel filtration/water separation system is the only safeguard that is known to help.

Also, the new EPA regulations that have taken the sulfur out of the fuel means the necessary fuel lubrication for injector health/life is now gone.

Diesel now costs more than premium gas.

So what used to be a really good, cost effective, longevity way to go isnt what it used to be.

5Stars;5089394 said:

Buy a Jeep and don't worry about it.



They are cost effective and last a long time and will take you where you need to go, rain or shine.

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I assume this is a joke cause that's pretty much the opposite of what i have heard about them. I seriously wanted (and still kinda do) a Grand Cherokee my fiance has more or less talked me out it because of the fuel costs. I might get a used one in the future but it's not something we want as a every day car

They are kinda in the luxury range here in Norway believe it or not, a brand new overland here cost over 200k USD and even the most basic Laredo models are well over 100k. I guess part of me wants one when i move because i can have one and no other reason, they seem make far more sense in Norway then in Texas

StarMan;5089798 said:

Well said. I grew up in a Ford family and for years I drove them too. But now I'm a Toyota guy because they made vastly superior cars compared to the American made. I don't think they're "vastly" superior anymore but they are still better. Don't see myself going back anytime soon.

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Yeah, and throughout the 8 or so years I sold, I only sold on American dealers' lots. So that's what I'm saying too. I like American trucks. But if I'm going to buy a car or SUV, I'd buy Japanese.

Ren;5089986 said:

I assume this is a joke cause that's pretty much the opposite of what i have heard about them. I seriously wanted (and still kinda do) a Grand Cherokee my fiance has more or less talked me out it because of the fuel costs. I might get a used one in the future but it's not something we want as a every day car

They are kinda in the luxury range here in Norway believe it or not, a brand new overland here cost over 200k USD and even the most basic Laredo models are well over 100k. I guess part of me wants one when i move because i can have one and no other reason, they seem make far more sense in Norway then in Texas

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It's interesting that the reputation for both Ford and Jeep is so bad in Norway while the opposite is true here.

A buddy loves his Cherokees. Buys a used one and drives it until the rust kills it, usually over 250k.

rags747;5089813 said:

Consumer Reports is great for vacuum cleaners and washers and dryers. A car imo is not an appliance although CR would have you believe that it is. If A to B is your gig than I guess Honda and Toyota will satisfy that need. The Japs are great copiers and are great at nailing down the assembly line process for quality control. Outside of that they could never come up with an original idea amongst the lot of them.

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...from Industrial Design School in the late 80s and went into car manufacturing for a while.

I think your assumption is a bit global and in my opinion not very grounded in reality.

What is a car? For most people it is an appliance. If you don't believe that then why were so many K cars sold in the 80s? You can find numerous examples of inexpensive, pedestrian vehicles designed and built for the lower end market specifically for one reason - people moving. Look up the root of the Volkswagon and why it was named thus.

Yes the Japanese brand automakers are excellent at production process. Thank God! Without that competitive culture we wouldn't be enjoying the reliability and quality today that exists in the present automotive market place.

Here's a bit of auto history for you. What major significant contributions have the Japanese made to auto industry that is still used today?

1. Direct full flow filtration. Before primarily US made cars would only filter 15% of their oil through a redirected filter. Toyota invented the direct filter.

2. Gear reduction starter. If you don't have one of these then you would be back in the 50's, 60's and 70's replacing your starter over and over again. We take for granted this fabulous Japanese invention that allows us to lightly turn our keys and start the vehicle 1000s of times per year for years on end.

The first two don't excite you? How about this one?

3. Electronic Variable Transmission. You see cars out with clutchless shifters. All the rage so that consumers can prove they are the next Mario Andretti without having to put their foot down on a clutch and shift gears. Thank Subaru. It was so ground breaking that F1 banned it in the 70s because it threatened to tip the balance in racing competitiveness. It eventually became the famed Renault paddle shifters in the late 80s and finally made it to the consumer market in the past decade.

I find it funny how as much as you want to put down Japanese branded cars, many which are made in North America, you happen to own a Maserati???

Cars in our driveway: 86 Ford Tempo, 92 Jeep Grand Cherokee, 96 Cadillac Sedan De Ville, 98 Honda Accord, 2006 Ford F150 and 2009 Toyota Corolla.

Cars I have owned in my past: 77 Dodge Aspen, 1983 Volkswagen Scirocco, 1987 Volkwagon Fox, 2001 Acura Legend and 2003 GMS Silverado 1500.

Vtwin;5090127 said:

It's interesting that the reputation for both Ford and Jeep is so bad in Norway while the opposite is true here.

A buddy loves his Cherokees. Buys a used one and drives it until the rust kills it, usually over 250k.

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Jeep doesn't really have a bad rep here but Chrysler does which i do believe makes them.

Dunno why anyone would knock Subaru unless they had a poor experience with them.

I had a 2011 Subaru Impreza, little sporty car, and it got around better in the snow (North Idaho) than any 4x4 SUV I ran into.

Great handling, and have a great reputation up here, right along with Toyota. The common theme here is if you take care of it, you'll easily get 300k miles out of a Toyota or a Subaru.

I've found that some brands have better reliability, while your location and purpose of use for the car can also impact your experience. My brother lives in downtown Vancouver and drives a small car. He's been happier with that gene of vehicle, as he is often taking short trips in congested traffic in an urban setting. I live in the Canadian prairies, and as a result find that highway driving is a big part of my life. We get pretty harsh winters, so we bought my wife a Honda CRV. It's 10 years old now, reliable as clockwork and is great in icy conditions. I drive my late father-in-law's 99 Buick Regal, which has also not posed any problems. I have a 97 Ford F-150 which required a new transmission 2 years ago, despite regular maintenance.

I think your experience will vary, depending on the local dealers, the climate, and your own comittment to maintaining your vehicle. Certainly, muscle cars are fun to have, but their practicality in a cold climate isn't conducive to the reality of icy roads. I have a friend who always buys his kids mid-sized American sedans with 6 cylinder engines. He swears by the formula, citing the combination of adequate power and decent fuel economy make for a better experience.

I had the experience of shopping for a new vehicle with my older son about two years ago. He was looking for a small car and we test drove everything under the sun. We found the fit and finish on Japanese and Korean cars at the sub-compact level was far better than anything from GM, Ford, and Chrysler.

Last year, I test drove some larger vehicles ( Sedans, SUV's etc) and found that the quality gap between Asian and North American cars was much narrower. The price differential was also a factor, with the North American cars being up to $2000 cheaper. We're looking at a new car to replace the CRV, as it has 260K kilometers on it. The Mrs wants another small SUV, so we'll look at lots of choices.

Tricked;5090303 said:

Dunno why anyone would knock Subaru unless they had a poor experience with them.

I had a 2011 Subaru Impreza, little sporty car, and it got around better in the snow (North Idaho) than any 4x4 SUV I ran into.

Great handling, and have a great reputation up here, right along with Toyota. The common theme here is if you take care of it, you'll easily get 300k miles out of a Toyota or a Subaru.

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...in my opinion is how does production process affect quality.

From looking at many independent watchdogs from Consumer Reports, JD Power and some industry inside orgs the facts show how much better Japanese branded cars rate in this area.

In fact if you look at latest reports you will see the defect ratings per 100 to be significantly better for Toyota and Lexus than most other brands with the exception of the Range Rover and a few luxury handmade brands.

If quality matters to you, then you probably should consider a Japanese brand in your search. The tipping balance in my opinion is having a first hand experience with these brands.

Fit and finish and customer value on Japanese brands is vastly superior and the gap is growing, not narrowing. I am a member and conference contributor to the AME. We use multiple metrics to rate different manufacturers and what is the most alarming statistic is Toyota is able to build a car in less time for significantly less cost with fewer defects than all the rest of the competition.

If you are interested in learning more about the Japanese/US car relationship google or read up on an organization/cooperative between GM and Toyota called NUMMI.

I always thought Ford made the most reliable American cars. So if you don't like Ford then buy foreign. Personally, I am never going to buy an American car.

If I did I would buy a Ford, but I just really don't like them.

At this point the only way I buy an American car is for nostalgic reasons. I love the late 50s-60s era. I would love to own a mid 60s Vette or a 65-66 Mustang fastback. My everyday driver will be Japanese or German made vehicles.

You could argue that Toyata followed a similar path, they had a solid reputation for quality but as demand went up they overproduced and let quality slip. They didn't handle the whole "stuck pedal" controversy very well that killed several people, in denial about the whole thing and then blaming stuck gas pedals instead of what many investigators thought was a problem with the computer/acceleration or cruise control.

WoodysGirl;5089980 said:

I bought two salvage cars and haven't had any issues besides the brakes. I wrecked one of them otherwise I would still have it.

The 2nd salvage car I bought, I'm still driving. There's some body stuff I need to do to it and I had to replace the brakes, but overall it drives fine.

All I did was study the carfax in depth to get a good read on what happened with both cars. The 2nd car was totaled twice, but never because of front end damage.

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That's great. The guy I deal with only buys cars with superficial damage. One they sell better and two he doesn't do the work himself so he has to be able to put new stuff on and just paint. So no major damage; he just stays away from them. He does get some flood stuff but limits purchases to those that just get the carpet wet; no electrical problems. As long as you drive them and expect no more than 80% when you unload it you're good.

My first three cars as a young driver were - 67 Firebird, 70 Camero, & 70 Firebird. Right out of college I then bought a used 77 280Z. After 15 years the Z got rear-ended and totaled. Probably a good thing as I had 3 kids by then. The replacement? 95 Geo Prizm - :laugh2:

But that got me started on imports (though admittedly it was a joint venture between GM & Toyota).

As I added teen drivers, and multiple cars, reliability became even more important. So I turned to Toyota - 4 Camrys (a 96 recently totaled, and three 2002's) later its hard to think about switching brands as the Toyota's have been as a reliable as advertised.

One last comment. I started with sporty looking cars but family changed that mightily for me as there are so many other greater priorities in life. At 53 I doubt I will ever invest really significant dollars again in a car. Plenty of reliable choices for cheap and I'd rather save the money for my family.

That said, nothing turns my head on the road like the new Camero's. Without a doubt I gawk and mutter BAD everytime I see one. Truthfully I wish they'd downsize it just a bit, closer to its ancestor of 69, but regardless it is one bad looking hombre. It turns my head exactly the way Corvettes did back in my youth.