Morality aside, Greg Hardy is the only missing link to a championship

I must say I never thought I'd be reading about Abe Lincoln and US history when I clicked on this thread.

A lot of passionate people on this forum.

M'Kevon said:

No, but I bet I can look it up, rather than blame "American BS" for not knowing.

Or are pictures required??

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It is ridiculous to suggest that everyone google something just to understand the reference or get a joke. He said he didn't know, its not a big deal.

Sorry Newnationcb - your American BS comment really set me off. My apologies

I personally have no problem with bringing him but I think this team is made up of certain players. A certain type. I won't use the 3 the letters to describe these type of players because its annoying lol but I think you mess with potential locker room chemistry. Just go into the draft and find the guys you need. They'll be cheaper and be more hungry.

newnationcb said:

And I'm not sure why I'm doing this now other than maybe some alcohol in my system but let's go:

1. I do know Abe Lincoln, slave owner and all
2. I could have looked up the phrase when initially presented to me but I thought it was a cinema/comedy reference that's why I never bothered
3. I truly have never heard the phrase or it's different iterations so had no idea. I know now
4. I truly believe getting Hardy (or a similar player) now or in the offseason is the single piece we're missing. I think we have the 3 spot, 1 spot, and RDE in Lawrence and all we're missing is that piece. Sean Lee and Mcclain with Durant is gonna be fun to watch.
5. I would do that trade for a 5th right now to have his rights and make him take that suspension right now so he could be ready for a playoff run. I truly believe that kind of player is the piece missing.

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Most people in this country cannot name the first four presidents. I wouldn't worry about random political idioms. Your ethics are your own.

I don't think the defense is that close. We need rangier playermakers in the secondary, we need an edge rusher or two, and we need size on the interior.

FuzzyLumpkins said:

Most people in this country cannot name the first four presidents. I wouldn't worry about random political idioms. Your ethics are your own.

I don't think the defense is that close. We need rangier playermakers in the secondary, we need an edge rusher or two, and we need size on the interior.

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I think we'll have enough size for both the rest of this season and next btw Brent, Mcclain and Hayden. Lawrence is that 2nd edge rusher IMO. Spencer and Mincey backing those 2 up is a very sold DE group.

Detroit has the top defense in the league with castoffs, Mathis and Ihedigbo, starting for them. I don't know how many top teams have truly dominant secondaries this year. I honestly think we're just a pass rush away.

newnationcb said:

And I'm not sure why I'm doing this now other than maybe some alcohol in my system but let's go:

1. I do know Abe Lincoln, slave owner and all
2. I could have looked up the phrase when initially presented to me but I thought it was a cinema/comedy reference that's why I never bothered
3. I truly have never heard the phrase or it's different iterations so had no idea. I know now
4. I truly believe getting Hardy (or a similar player) now or in the offseason is the single piece we're missing. I think we have the 3 spot, 1 spot, and RDE in Lawrence and all we're missing is that piece. Sean Lee and Mcclain with Durant is gonna be fun to watch.
5. I would do that trade for a 5th right now to have his rights and make him take that suspension right now so he could be ready for a playoff run. I truly believe that kind of player is the piece missing.

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I am fine with anyone being unaware of anything, but I am not fine with being absolutely incorrect factually.
And in this context it is a pretty big factual error.

Lincoln did not own slaves. --You are probably thinking of Thomas Jefferson or most other early Presidents.
He was too poor to own anything for much of his life then too educated when he did finally have some money.
He was always morally against slavery while he walked a political tightrope that saw him balance between abolitionists and Southern pro-slavery forces.
His emancipation of slaves is why he was assassinated so he was literally someone who gave his life for the cause of slavery.

Civil War historian Gerald J. Prokopowicz, addresses this and many other questions regarding Lincoln in his aptly titled book, Did Lincoln Own Slaves? And Other Frequently Asked Questions about Abraham Lincoln with “No, but people keep asking.”

According to Prokopowicz, Lincoln’s views on slavery were consistent. In April of 1864, almost exactly a year before his assassination, Lincoln wrote, “I am naturally anti-slavery. If slavery is not wrong, nothing is wrong. I can not remember when I did not so think, and feel.”

- See more at: http://historynewsnetwork.org/article/148705#sthash.JaRPNTep.dpuf

newnationcb said:

I don't expect everyone on a football board to look up every pop reference.

I did not expect you to have looked it up because I don't feel the world revolves around my background. I have no feeling of entitlement. Picture that!

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He got the idiom "picture that!"

yentl911 said:

He was one of the most influential people in US history. If you think this is American BS - um, you are in the US right? Then maybe you should shuffle your *** back to Canada or Nigeria.

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He's not calling America or Lincoln's history BS. He's attacking this attitude that thinks everyone should know about American culture and American idioms in such fine detail that they would understand the phrase "Other than the shooting of your husband, how did you like the play, Mrs. Lincoln."

If I run a football team, domestic abuse is a zero tolerance offense for me. Veteran free agents and prospective draftees would be removed from consideration.

yentl911 said:

Sorry Newnationcb - your American BS comment really set me off. My apologies

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Apology accepted and I should serve one myself to you and anyone else offended by the 'American BS' comment. I think tyke1doe explained my sentiment better than I could have. The comment wasn't directed towards America and its legacy. It's a great country and I'm proud and lucky to be here.

But people from all over the world post on this board. So I was alarmed at the indignation displayed by posters at the start of the thread for me not knowing the phrase. I couldn't understand why that would be so shocking.

I am a highly educated professional in the medical field. I yearn for knowledge and, honestly, when I first saw the phrase, I thought it was a movie quote which is why I never bothered to look it up; I was focused on the football convo at that point. I am now aware of the relevance of the quote and am happy to have learned about it as it can come up in social settings in the future.

Again, the comment was directed towards the sense of entitlement, not towards the country or what it stands for.

rocyaice said:

I personally have no problem with bringing him but I think this team is made up of certain players. A certain type. I won't use the 3 the letters to describe these type of players because its annoying lol but I think you mess with potential locker room chemistry. Just go into the draft and find the guys you need. They'll be cheaper and be more hungry.

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What;s funny is that when you watch him play he fits the RKG profile of this defense to a T. He's a Mcclain kind of player. Big, strong, fast, violent with a non-stop motor.

The incident is obviously a big issue but although he's had problems in the past, this is his first incident in the league. He's not a pacman Jones sort of player. And the victim isn't an angel either so there could be some embellishment involved.

The guy is only 26 and hasn't played his last down in the league. If he plays a snap for another team, I'd rather it be us. I don't wanna see us assume a higher moral ground than other teams and ignore this player when I believe he is the last piece missing.







I have obviously forgotten how to embed youtube videos as the [youtube] functions don't work anymore.

Edit: the forum now does it for you.

newnationcb said:

Apology accepted and I should serve one myself to you and anyone else offended by the 'American BS' comment. I think tyke1doe explained my sentiment better than I could have. The comment wasn't directed towards America and its legacy. It's a great country and I'm proud and lucky to be here.

But people from all over the world post on this board. So I was alarmed at the indignation displayed by posters at the start of the thread for me not knowing the phrase. I couldn't understand why that would be so shocking.

I am a highly educated professional in the medical field. I yearn for knowledge and, honestly, when I first saw the phrase, I thought it was a movie quote which is why I never bothered to look it up; I was focused on the football convo at that point. I am now aware of the relevance of the quote and am happy to have learned about it as it can come up in social settings in the future.

Again, the comment was directed towards the sense of entitlement, not towards the country or what it stands for.

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This is really all that needed to be said to clear this up quite a bit back.

I don't believe anyone would have been into this arguing back in forth had you simply said you weren't from here and didn't know it. The American BS comment is pretty clearly what set off the back and forth stuff afterwards.

Either way as I was reading the thread it was pretty clear to me that you simply didn't know the reference because you weren't from here. I thought the American BS comment was a bit off but it wasn't anything to get to upset about.

newnationcb said:

The guy is only 26 and hasn't played his last down in the league. If he plays a snap for another team, I'd rather it be us. I don't wanna see us assume a higher moral ground than other teams and ignore this player when I believe he is the last piece missing.
.

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He goes to trial in mid-November to determine his fate. He has been found guilty once by a judge. Will a jury see things any differently? I don't know. Putting morality aside it doesn't matter. What matters is that since he will be busy with his trial he won't be available for any team this season. That rules out trading for him even if Dallas does want him. It would be wasting a draft pick. Or is it picks? He is playing under the franchise tag. I'm not sure what level franchise tag Carolina has used, but it could be a pricey trade to get him. There is no sense doing that for a guy that won't be playing this season. If Dallas wants him, then they will need to get him as a free agent in the off season and then will have to deal with whatever league punishment that he will have at that time.

Hardy is a fantastic player but future success does not depend on acquiring him.

newnationcb said:

What;s funny is that when you watch him play he fits the RKG profile of this defense to a T. He's a Mcclain kind of player. Big, strong, fast, violent with a non-stop motor.

The incident is obviously a big issue but although he's had problems in the past, this is his first incident in the league. He's not a pacman Jones sort of player. And the victim isn't an angel either so there could be some embellishment involved.

The guy is only 26 and hasn't played his last down in the league. If he plays a snap for another team, I'd rather it be us. I don't wanna see us assume a higher moral ground than other teams and ignore this player when I believe he is the last piece missing.







I have obviously forgotten how to embed youtube videos as the [youtube] functions don't work anymore.

Edit: the forum now does it for you.

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I agree with you. Greg Hardy is more of a "RKG" than I think people realize. But the guy...he has too much baggage with him. I'm not sure if you bring that headache to your team or organization.

newnationcb said:

I know he's got the issues he's dealing with and I'm not sure how that can be circumvented but I do believe this player, or another player of his caliber, is the only thing we're missing on this team.

With Dlaw coming back we'll have a RDE rusher. We have 2 very good 3 techniques in Crawford and Melton and they're both getting better as the season progresses. The 1 tech is not valued but btw Mcclain, Hayden and Brent we can hold that spot down. Selvie, while he's played well against the run, hasn't done squat as a pass rusher this year.

We can have Mincey and Spencer rush from LDE when Lawrence gets back but it won't be the same as having Hardy rushing from that side. He's pretty much the only player missing from that Carolina defense and look at how far they've dropped with him out. And I know they're tired of his shenanigans and won't be franchising him for a 2nd year in a row.

So whether it's before the trade deadline (maybe just for his rights) or in FA, I think we need this guy.

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If his current team is not playing him then I don't see him playing for another team until after the jury trial.

The Cowboys could look at him in free agency if his legal issues are resolved.

xwalker said:

If his current team is not playing him then I don't see him playing for another team until after the jury trial.

The Cowboys could look at him in free agency if his legal issues are resolved.

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FA is the mostly likely option at this point. That was made clear in my initial post.

I just wish there was a way to add a guy like this for a playoff run. I think we'll make moves this offseason to be a true contender next year but at the same time 6-1 and great health is not guaranteed either. You can't just take seasons like this for granted.