News: Cowboys believe Brandon Carr is better than you think

Yakuza Rich · Mar 25, 2016

YR

PAINFROMUKRAINE · Mar 25, 2016

The "Cowboys believe Garrett is better than you think". Funny how one underachiever protects another underachiever. Carr and Garrett are robbing the Franchise in terms of money based on their production. I was a supporter of Carr when they signed me but we did not get our money's worth. The truth is hard to swallow sometimes. Carr should have been cut before last season. The fact that Dallas allowed him to prove it one more year is commendable on their part. This year his base salary cannot justify keeping him on the roster unless we get a Big Discount thru a pay cut. I would offer 2.5 Million plus incentives of 5 Million (based on him making the Pro Bowl). Your play on the field will put money in your pocket.

TheDude · Mar 25, 2016

AbeBeta said:
Yeah, and I saw in 2013 when we had a pass rush our DBs had 10 picks. The previous year, DBs had all but one of our picks ... again we had a pass rush then. BTW, Carr had 6 picks those two years.

And the piece about LBs leading the team with picks is a bit of a red herring. Carter had 5 in 2014, Lee had 4 in 2013, and Lee tied with Newman in 2011 (both had 4). Those are the three years in the last 6 seasons that we've had an LB lead the team.

And honestly, when you've got an LB getting 4 or 5 picks, you need to see that as a good thing. Only about 20-30 guys each year get four or more picks - maybe 2 or 3 of those guys are LBs. That's just outstanding LB play. Says nothing about our DBs

And yet somehow with all that great 2012-2013 pass rush and solid secondary (Carr) play, the Opp Passer Rating Ranking was 29th and 27th, respectively.

Picks arent the single magic number, it is a headline number easiest to compare a player. Im not complaining about the LBs, they havent been the issue they were in 2006-9. The investment in the CB position has been a failure. No way around that.

The NFL is "what have you done for me lately" 2 years - 0 picks. He was not even in the top 100 for Passes Defended (6) last year or top 90 (7) in 2014. I havent found a measure where he is in the top 32 CBs in any category - but he's paid like it.

CCBoy · Mar 25, 2016

PAINFROMUKRAINE said:
The "Cowboys believe Garrett is better than you think". Funny how one underachiever protects another underachiever. Carr and Garrett are robbing the Franchise in terms of money based on their production. I was a supporter of Carr when they signed me but we did not get our money's worth. The truth is hard to swallow sometimes. Carr should have been cut before last season. The fact that Dallas allowed him to prove it one more year is commendable on their part. This year his base salary cannot justify keeping him on the roster unless we get a Big Discount thru a pay cut. I would offer 2.5 Million plus incentives of 5 Million (based on him making the Pro Bowl). Your play on the field will put money in your pocket.

For sure....if there was no real gravity involved, then it would just purely suck.

Teague31 · Mar 25, 2016

The same crowd that thinks Carr is good also believes Mo is "solid"

Reality · Mar 25, 2016

And that's why they keep trying to replace him!

ElGatoGrande · Mar 25, 2016

I'll second the notion that Carr is better than the angry mob believes he is,,, he is "good enough", the team should focus on upgrading weaker areas.

jobberone · Mar 25, 2016

bkight13 said:
The Dead Money is exactly the same whether he stays or goes. No difference.

The only question is if he is worth ANOTHER 9.1m in salary on top of that.

Everyone says no but we keep overpaying him every year because we can't find a replacement or trade him.

It's not dead money if he is on the roster. The question is he worth it. He's never been worth his contract. That doesn't make the entire FO stupid because all teams have overpaid players some who also underperform. I think all agree is he overpaid even if he was better. He's a marginal starter with the caveat he plays well to his strengths....mostly. And he's not the best tackler although he seems to have improved.

They need to draft and acquire corners like Seattle does. I do agree the FO does not do well with cover acquisition nor do we seem to coach them well. What mitigates against that is the lack of pressure most of our cover guys get which makes everyone look worse than they are.

TheDude · Mar 25, 2016

jobberone said:
It's not dead money if he is on the roster. The question is he worth it. He's never been worth his contract. That doesn't make the entire FO stupid because all teams have overpaid players some who also underperform. I think all agree is he overpaid even if he was better. He's a marginal starter with the caveat he plays well to his strengths....mostly. And he's not the best tackler although he seems to have improved.

They need to draft and acquire corners like Seattle does. I do agree the FO does not do well with cover acquisition nor do we seem to coach them well. What mitigates against that is the lack of pressure most of our cover guys get which makes everyone look worse than they are.

Coupled with the trade-up for the "Next Deion" in the same offseason; if they werent stupid, they were in a full sprint to achieve it

AbeBeta · Mar 25, 2016

McLovin said:
And yet somehow with all that great 2012-2013 pass rush and solid secondary (Carr) play, the Opp Passer Rating Ranking was 29th and 27th, respectively.

Picks arent the single magic number, it is a headline number easiest to compare a player. Im not complaining about the LBs, they havent been the issue they were in 2006-9. The investment in the CB position has been a failure. No way around that.

The NFL is "what have you done for me lately" 2 years - 0 picks. He was not even in the top 100 for Passes Defended (6) last year or top 90 (7) in 2014. I havent found a measure where he is in the top 32 CBs in any category - but he's paid like it.

Yep when our OPRR is better, people scream and say "they didn't get enough picks! see they suck!"

Take pay out of the equation. Is Carr a legit NFL starter. He obviously is. Compare him to every other corner on this team. He's out there every damn game.

Scandrick earned about 8 mill over the past two years for 14 games in total (plus a suspension!).

Mo played 40 games in four years and earned 16 mill.

Geez, at least with Carr we get an actual body on the field for the investment.

big dog cowboy · Mar 25, 2016

Q_the_man said:
I think Carr is good, doesn't get burnt to often.

GimmeTheBall! · Mar 25, 2016

CCBoy said:
Cowboys believe Brandon Carr is better than you think

http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas-cowb...ys-believe-brandon-carr-is-better-than-you-do

IRVING, Texas -- Brandon Carr is still standing.

First, the Dallas Cowboys brought in Nolan Carroll for a free-agent visit but had health concerns regarding him. He ended up re-signing with the Philadelphia Eagles. Then the Cowboys brought in Leon Hall for a visit, but there are health worries there too.

The strangest saga involved Patrick Robinson. The Cowboys thought they had a deal agreed upon then were informed Robinson had a different agent upon his visit to Valley Ranch. He then met with the Indianapolis Colts and signed with them.

That the Cowboys did not sign any of these cornerbacks has some alarmed that their favorite team has lost their luster. However, would signing any of these three severely impacted Super Bowl odds?

The biggest winner in this is Carr. Even if the Cowboys had signed Carroll, Hall or Robinson, it was no given Carr would have been jettisoned.

The Cowboys want Carr to re-work his contract, which calls for him to make $9.1 million this year. There have been talks with his agent, Ben Dogra. Determining Carr's worth on the open market is a sticking point. With the way deals have come down across the league so far, Carr is in the $5-6 million range.

The Cowboys know a team would sign him to a deal quickly. That is why they didn't press the pay cut last year. They also know they don't have a replacement for him yet and it was no guarantee those aforementioned corners would have replaced him...

Oh, the folly of sticking with something that does not work!
Just when I think Sir Jones has learned his lesson, he lets us know that he's still the same and he still believes he can coax talent out of no-talent players. I would be angrier if I were paying Carr's salary, but I'm not. Thank goodness.

casmith07 · Mar 25, 2016

Sam I Am said:
I've getting tired of this offseason CB merry-go-round. They need to just make a choice and be done with it. If we are keeping Carr, then keep him.

https://lh3.***BROKEN***/-HCqFED1tc_0/VvU1an6A-8I/AAAAAAAE3iY/1D-d1OxtvJ0/s346/17YZ5.gif

The only people on a merry-go-round have been fans and the media. The Cowboys have never at any point indicated they were waffling about his status.

casmith07 · Mar 25, 2016

EGG said:
I'll second the notion that Carr is better than the angry mob believes he is,,, he is "good enough", the team should focus on upgrading weaker areas.

Like right tackle.

casmith07 · Mar 25, 2016

jobberone said:
It's not dead money if he is on the roster. The question is he worth it. He's never been worth his contract. That doesn't make the entire FO stupid because all teams have overpaid players some who also underperform. I think all agree is he overpaid even if he was better. He's a marginal starter with the caveat he plays well to his strengths....mostly. And he's not the best tackler although he seems to have improved.

They need to draft and acquire corners like Seattle does. I do agree the FO does not do well with cover acquisition nor do we seem to coach them well. What mitigates against that is the lack of pressure most of our cover guys get which makes everyone look worse than they are.

There's not really a such thing as a "great tackler" at cornerback in the NFL.

jobberone · Mar 25, 2016

McLovin said:
Coupled with the trade-up for the "Next Deion" in the same offseason; if they werent stupid, they were in a full sprint to achieve it

Yeah, that was a bad signing and if you remember the primary architect behind that was.......??? Still makes the FO look bad but it wasn't all on them. Having said that I still wouldn't have done it and neither should have Jerry or Stephen. Poor decision.

People are still conflating the overall worth of the contract and the play of Carr. I'm not a fan other than his style does well with certain players and certain schemes. The problem is that is not generally called on plus he has liabilities in other parts of his game. Still he's an average CB at best with occasional exceptions and we should have been able to force him into a pay cut sooner than (hopefully) this year.

Too many here take a side based on illogical ideations and fail to see all the grays and nuances.

TheDude · Mar 25, 2016

AbeBeta said:
Yep when our OPRR is better, people scream and say "they didn't get enough picks! see they suck!"

Take pay out of the equation. Is Carr a legit NFL starter. He obviously is. Compare him to every other corner on this team. He's out there every damn game.

Scandrick earned about 8 mill over the past two years for 14 games in total (plus a suspension!).

Mo played 40 games in four years and earned 16 mill.

Geez, at least with Carr we get an actual body on the field for the investment.

I dont even know what to make of this post its everywhere? THe OPPR hasnt been in the top half of the league since 2007. Carr has provided basically nothing but an expensive warm body.

I dont even know if you are being serious to say we are lucky to have a warm body and should be thankful all it cost was $50M. The Mo pick was solidifying our first in the stupid sweepstakes. The ROI on that offseason is completely negative and has contributed mightily to killing valuable Romo years.

No GM in the league would have survived that 2012 offseason.

coult44 · Mar 25, 2016

dogunwo said:
We did get a new DE.

Ok. Lol. Really, that' funny. We got a camp body

jobberone · Mar 25, 2016

casmith07 said:
There's not really a such thing as a "great tackler" at cornerback in the NFL.

Ok good enough tackler. And there are teams that have DBs who can tackle and their defense benefits greatly from it. A great coach once said that football was essentially a game of blocking and tackling. A bit simple but I get the concept.

Seattle integrates their CBs into the run game as an essential ingredient. I use them as a successful agent of the concept which is really as old as the game. It's nothing really ingenious other than teams compromised in the attempt to get shutdown corners who were too fragile to cover and tackle without getting hurt.....ie Deion.

Hence my insistence we change our angle of acquisition to DBs who are long and physical and can tackle as well as cover. Those guys do exist and they generally aren't found in the first rounds although that is changing. Jones is an example of a guy who can tackle and cover and has the length and physicality to go with it.

TheDude · Mar 25, 2016

jobberone said:
Yeah, that was a bad signing and if you remember the primary architect behind that was.......??? Still makes the FO look bad but it wasn't all on them. Having said that I still wouldn't have done it and neither should have Jerry or Stephen. Poor decision.

People are still conflating the overall worth of the contract and the play of Carr. I'm not a fan other than his style does well with certain players and certain schemes. The problem is that is not generally called on plus he has liabilities in other parts of his game. Still he's an average CB at best with occasional exceptions and we should have been able to force him into a pay cut sooner than (hopefully) this year.

Too many here take a side based on illogical ideations and fail to see all the grays and nuances.

I remember it being laid at the feet of Rob Ryan - which makes the FO look even worse. The initial contract wasnt the issue. He has been really bad to below average at best the last 2 years. Most teams move on.

I will agree there are gray areas, but time tends to fade things to white or rot them to black. Getting pretty charcoal

News: Cowboys believe Brandon Carr is better than you think

Yakuza Rich

Well-Known Member

PAINFROMUKRAINE

Well-Known Member

TheDude

McLovin

CCBoy

Well-Known Member

Teague31

Defender of the Star

Reality

ElGatoGrande

EGG

jobberone

Kane Ala

TheDude

McLovin

AbeBeta

Well-Known Member

big dog cowboy

THE BIG DOG

GimmeTheBall!

Junior College Transfer

casmith07

Attorney-at-Zone

casmith07

Attorney-at-Zone

casmith07

Attorney-at-Zone

jobberone

Kane Ala

TheDude

McLovin

coult44

Well-Known Member

jobberone

Kane Ala

TheDude

McLovin