David Irving only 23 years old

therock1982 · Dec 28, 2016

JoeyBoy718 said:
Defense 25 and under:

DT Collins 21
DE/DT Irving 23
DE Tapper 23
DE Gregory 24
DE Lawrence 24
DE Mayowa 25

LB Smith 21
LB Wilson 23
LB Hitchens 24

SS Frazier 22
CB Brown 23
FS Jones 24
FS Heath 25
SS Wilcox 25

Notable surprises:

DE actually appears to be our "deepest" unit of young talent despite most people believing we need to address DE heavy in the draft. Whereas DT only has one "young" talent (if you consider Irving a DE).

Similar thing going on in the secondary with the safety position appearing to be very young and CB only having one young talent. Also surprised to see that Heath is younger than Wilcox by a few months.

Our future success at LB is resting heavily on the knee of Jaylon Smith.

hitchens and wilson have really stepped up aswell

MichaelWinicki · Dec 28, 2016

Yoshimitsu said:
That's bs. I think he would thrive in dallas in this culture. Marinelli could make JPP even more dominant. This guy came back from a blown finger. That takes dedication and love for the game. If he is available the Cowboys should absolutely sign him.

The inside scoop from Giants' land is that JPP is not leaving the 'ants. Both are eager to extend their relationship at least another season.

MichaelWinicki · Dec 28, 2016

Plankton said:
Completely disagree on defensive end.

Frankly, they need to go into the offseason as if Randy Gregory and DeMarcus Lawrence aren't on the team. Neither of them can be fully counted on, and it wouldn't surprise me at all if one or both aren't available for large chunks of the 2017 season. Also, with Tapper's back condition, there's a great unknown as to how he will hold up through the season. It's a congenital condition - do not know whether it will be chronic.

That leaves two DEs that would be in the mix. There's no question that the position is a huge need and needs to be addressed.

Yep, and Dallas simply isn't going to pay big dollars to a high priced DE... #1 other than JPP (who has indicated a desire to resign with the Giants) the #2 The shelf is pretty bare when it comes to high-priced DE.

They'll go with a high draft pick and a mid-priced DE.

Trouty · Dec 28, 2016

stilltheguru88 said:
Only way Mo comes back is if he returns and plays well. Why resign a guy two times who has never played a full season and isn't a top 10 player? Sean Lee was a different situation.

Nope. With respect, Guru. We must re-sign Mo. He takes a lower contract because of his injuries. He's was a top-10 corner this year before going down, and probably a top-15 corner last year. Physically, coverage, he was balling. 4/28 13 guar.

We must re-sign Mo.

Trouty · Dec 28, 2016

MichaelWinicki said:
Under the current defensive regime they're never going to draft a "Big DT".

The problem is at DE... Not DT.

Why are we discussing DT, Mike??

MichaelWinicki · Dec 28, 2016

Trouty said:
Why are we discussing DT, Mike??

I have no idea. I think the roster of DT's is pretty good actually.

DFWJC · Dec 28, 2016

Will Clay strikes again

Trouty · Dec 28, 2016

MichaelWinicki said:
I have no idea. I think the roster of DT's is pretty good actually.

It's incredible with the way Collins has emerged, paired with tweeners like Irving and TCraw.

Parche · Dec 28, 2016

Q_the_man said:
nice young talent. Draft a DT and CB/S. For some reason I think Jones needs to move to CB and draft another safety

I would draft more LBs if theyre there in the draft to take em, you can never have enough of em. Next in line would be CBs.

Plankton · Dec 28, 2016

MichaelWinicki said:
Yep, and Dallas simply isn't going to pay big dollars to a high priced DE... #1 other than JPP (who has indicated a desire to resign with the Giants) the #2 The shelf is pretty bare when it comes to high-priced DE.

They'll go with a high draft pick and a mid-priced DE.

There's not much in free agency - Pierre-Paul will not come cheap, and the Giants likely won't let him get away. Aside from that, if I were the Cowboys, I'd look at Mario Addison from the Panthers (9 sacks this year, but will turn 30 next year), Andre Branch from the Dolphins (6 sacks in a reserve role, 27 years old) or Devin Taylor from the Lions (5 sacks, 25 years old). The draft will have to provide some answers, and they may be able to get a guy like Carl Lawson or Harold Landry to add to the mix.

CWR · Dec 28, 2016

Trouty said:
Nope. With respect, Guru. We must re-sign Mo. He takes a lower contract because of his injuries. He's was a top-10 corner this year before going down, and probably a top-15 corner last year. Physically, coverage, he was balling. 4/28 13 guar.

We must re-sign Mo.

Agreed buddy, Mo was also much better last year. The light has finally come on and now because of the injury I think we get a nice home town discount. I hate the idea of suffering through the growing pains only to let him walk when hes finally come around. Yes his injuries have been a problem but past injuries do not always predicate future injuries. Best example I can think of is "fragile" Fred Taylor. Didn't we cut Jimmy Smith because he couldn't stay healthy? The whole discussion is moot anyways until we know what his actual market value is. But I think we re-sign our own.

xwalker · Dec 28, 2016

FuzzyLumpkins said:
Well only if being a warm body was sufficient.

DLaw, Tapper, and Gregory are not reliable. Tapper has a back disorder that is not correctable. DLaw is repeatedly hurt and a multiple drug test failure as the first fail does not lose you games, and Gregory has a high probability to be suspended all of next year.

I've read a little about Tapper's back issue. It appears that many people with that condition do get over it with an extended period or rest sometimes combined with a brace.

As with many medical issues, there are varying degrees of this condition. In my non-medical terms it could be a hairline fracture where the 2 pieces of bone are still basically together or it could be a complete separation of the 2 pieces of bone. If it is more of a hairline fracture, then it can heal with extended rest and possibly a brace. If there is enough separation in the break then something called a direct pars repair can be done which uses screws and possibly a bone graft to repair the break.

This injury is often seen in young athletes. Their constant activity never allows the fracture to heal.

The numbers seem to vary, but it seems that somewhere around 75% of these cases that are treated heal without surgery.

JoeyBoy718 · Dec 28, 2016

Plankton said:
Completely disagree on defensive end.

Frankly, they need to go into the offseason as if Randy Gregory and DeMarcus Lawrence aren't on the team. Neither of them can be fully counted on, and it wouldn't surprise me at all if one or both aren't available for large chunks of the 2017 season. Also, with Tapper's back condition, there's a great unknown as to how he will hold up through the season. It's a congenital condition - do not know whether it will be chronic.

That leaves two DEs that would be in the mix. There's no question that the position is a huge need and needs to be addressed.

I'm not saying we don't need to address DE. I'm just saying it's our "deepest" unit of young talent. But a position isn't set just because there are a lot of young bodies. I think CB is currently our deepest position of talent and the majority of them are nearing 30.

xwalker · Dec 28, 2016

Trouty said:
Nope. With respect, Guru. We must re-sign Mo. He takes a lower contract because of his injuries. He's was a top-10 corner this year before going down, and probably a top-15 corner last year. Physically, coverage, he was balling. 4/28 13 guar.

We must re-sign Mo.

I would be against giving Claiborne 13M guaranteed.

He just can't stay healthy. I thought he was finally going to both stay healthy and play at a high level this season, but it just didn't happen again.

The problem with signing oft-injured players is that even if the cost is a "bargain", the team has to allocate money and a roster spot to that player. Once he gets injured again, then they are weaker at that position than they would have been by either signed a premium player at full price or even by signing a slightly lesser player that stays healthy.

The other issue is that while he was playing well early this season, he has not shown to be a ball hawk that gets many INTs. He had 1 this season and 4 total in his 5 years with the team. I would be more willing to gamble on a true ball-hawk type CB.

My guess is that they offer him the same 1-year, 3M contract that he signed this past off-season.

It is an interesting conundrum with Claiborne and Carr. They are stark opposites. Carr has limited talent but stays healthy while Claiborne has the talent but is rarely healthy. Both will be free agents.

Trouty · Dec 28, 2016

xwalker said:
I would be against giving Claiborne 13M guaranteed.

He just can't stay healthy. I thought he was finally going to both stay healthy and play at a high level this season, but it just didn't happen again.

The problem with signing oft-injured players is that even if the cost is a "bargain", the team has to allocate money and a roster spot to that player. Once he gets injured again, then they are weaker at that position than they would have been by either signed a premium player at full price or even by signing a slightly lesser player that stays healthy.

The other issue is that while he was playing well early this season, he has not shown to be a ball hawk that gets many INTs. He had 1 this season and 4 total in his 5 years with the team. I would be more willing to gamble on a true ball-hawk type CB.

My guess is that they offer him the same 1-year, 3M contract that he signed this past off-season.

It is an interesting conundrum with Claiborne and Carr. They are stark opposites. Carr has limited talent but stays healthy while Claiborne has the talent but is rarely healthy. Both will be free agents.

You're right, X. 4/28 (7aav) is also probably too high, considering his injury history. I doubt we get him for 3, tho. And I wouldn't let him walk if he didn't take it. Maybe 2/10 (4.5 guar) to reward his emergence as a legit CB, while penalizing him for his injury history?

xwalker · Dec 28, 2016

JoeyBoy718 said:
I'm not saying we don't need to address DE. I'm just saying it's our "deepest" unit of young talent. But a position isn't set just because there are a lot of young bodies. I think CB is currently our deepest position of talent and the majority of them are nearing 30.

I'm as concerned about CB as DE for next season. Carr and Claiborne are free agents. Carr is just OK and Claiborne can't stay healthy. That leaves Scandrick and Brown. Scandrick seems somewhat prone to injury now also.

Much like DE, adding 1 legit player at the position could make a drastic improvement on the whole unit because it pushes all of the other players down the depth chart. At DE, I like DLaw more as a number 2 DE than as a #1 DE for 2017. If they had a legit star RDE, then DLaw competes with Irving at the starting SDE.

They'll probably re-sign Carr and Claiborne to reasonable type contracts, but I would consider just signing 1 legit CB like Trumaine Johnson instead of those two.

TheCount · Dec 28, 2016

JoeyBoy718 said:
DE actually appears to be our "deepest" unit of young talent despite most people believing we need to address DE heavy in the draft.

Tapper and Gregory, if we're being objective, haven't shown any production.

People keep including Jaylon in the list of young talents, and the guy isn't even physically capable of contributing – that's before even getting into whether he can play the pro game at a top level, that's not a given either.

Yoshimitsu said:
That's bs. I think he would thrive in dallas in this culture. Marinelli could make JPP even more dominant. This guy came back from a blown finger. That takes dedication and love for the game. If he is available the Cowboys should absolutely sign him.

I don't think I agree with this. JPP will be 28 come January 1st, that's a dangerous age to give a guy big money.

He also got 5.5 of his 7 sacks this year against the Bears and Browns, so it's not like he's still a top flight pass rusher.

Even if you pay him, at this point, he seems like a rotational guy – not an actual solution to the position.

xwalker · Dec 28, 2016

Trouty said:
You're right, X. 4/28 (7aav) is also probably too high, considering his injury history. I doubt we get him for 3, tho. And I wouldn't let him walk if he didn't take it. Maybe 2/10 (4.5 guar) to reward his emergence as a legit CB, while penalizing him for his injury history?

7M per would be fine if he played 16 games.

I would either offer him the 1-year, 3M type contract OR offer him an incentive type contract like 500K per game played. That is 8M for 16 games but would be 3.5M for the 7 games that he played this season.

Better yet, I would kick the tires on Trumaine Johnson. He was Franchised this season after having 7 INTs last year. This year he only has 1 pick and being on a losing team could help keep his asking price down.

perrykemp · Dec 28, 2016

Man-o-man I am excited about Irving.

The crazy and supremely satisfying thought is that we have no idea what this guy's ceiling is.

In the grand scheme of thing he's barely played over the past 2 years.

WeaponX · Dec 28, 2016

Trouty said:
Nope. With respect, Guru. We must re-sign Mo. He takes a lower contract because of his injuries. He's was a top-10 corner this year before going down, and probably a top-15 corner last year. Physically, coverage, he was balling. 4/28 13 guar.

We must re-sign Mo.

To this point, I would actually use Sean Lee's deal as a prototype for Mo's new deal, and I agree that we should (and will) re-sign him. We invested so much time and draft capital with him I'd like to enjoy the fruits now that he's come into his own.

David Irving only 23 years old

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