The West Virginia Overdose Epidemic

Silver Surfer

Silver Surfer

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Silver Surfer said:
No blood, no foul right? Are you denying the existence of psychological and emotional trauma? Are you saying that financial hardship caused by the addict's drug use, incarceration, or death is not real damage to people who depend on them?

You state "everyone is responsible for their own safety". Using your logic, should I conclude we should eliminate the police department? Why stop there? How about the military? Coast Guard? How about traffic control devices like stop signs and street lights? What about those who can't defend themselves like the very young, handicapped or elderly? Are they on their own?

There's a difference between between libertarianism and foolishness. I'm not sure you've found it yet.
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There's also a difference between using the word "between" once and twice, and apparently I haven't found that yet......
 
BigStar

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Melonfeud said:
I picked up " addictive gene" and it triggered my reply, friend.
I don't know if it is considered one and the same as " addictive personality" but I know I've pretty much got that one stamped across my forehead, things I like I'll try them twice or several hundred times,I feel as in all things the term " moderation" is essential in dealing with the compulsive impulses , and a careful study of the whole risk vs.reward aspect (for me) the kick/thrill loses it's initial euphoria/fun and (for me)reading the signposts that read 'dead end' on that road weather it's ramping motocross dirt bikes or dabbling on the dark side of drugs (for me anyway) in time to pump the brakes on the dumbsh*t and stop doing 'those' things,although I've never slammed the horse the people/friends I know who have are on methadone and probably my better friend from that small handful of folks I've known still says to this day " I'd still jump over three gorgeous naked virgin Marys for one slam of China white",,, after hearing him tell me that I've never had the desire to mess with anything like that ,that could obviously re-route a man's basic hard wiring schematics.
I've been 'another friend of Bill' ,a 12 stepper,and chip flipper in the past,also.
In summary I guess the gist of my blathering boils down to the phrase " priorities in life" as I can understand the one dudes view in the O.P.'s news article where he said just leave them lay where they were.
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I agree with everything your posted except the last statement in understanding the opinion of letting them die due to poor decisions made prior. I can say I'm the same way; have 1 gimme 100 but lucky to only play with opiates and not go full fledge. There is something to the schematics of the brain after long term opiate use so you're right it seems like almost a pointless fight. The "addictive gene/personality" doesn't mean we don't still have choices and you're 100% correct. But to let someone die from an od in the "richest" country in the world (not WV; they get the shaft in regards to health services) says more about us as a culture than it does about drug use. Many with that opinion (not you specifically) then turn and in the same sentence complain about gangs n crime, etc. We can't have it both ways, something's gotta give.
 
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Dodger12

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BigStar said:
I do acknowledge those medical stories are true as well but the pill factories are the main culprit (FLA Docs flooding the market; funneled mainly to WV/KY in 2000s; the hillbilly heroin BP mentioned and now spread across the country). In my experience, most are taking pills fully knowing the reason initially and it's solely for the high instead of the medical doctor story I hear a lot in the news.
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Absolutely right on the pill mills and doctors. And I agree that some may start on the pills for the high and that could be said for many drugs. But the difference with the pills is a completely "innocent" person can get addicted simply because a doctor prescribed them after a relatively minor surgical procedure. Over-prescribing, coupled with the pill mills and unethical doctors, not to mention big Pharma flooding the market, is a recipe for disaster whose threat far outweighs that of alcohol. It has become an epidemic.
 
Dodger12

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AmberBeer said:
Sure you can. Both lead to self-destruction.
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Sure. So can chocolate and fatty foods and a whole host of other things. I'm not minimizing alcohol or it's dangers when not responsibly consumed. But the opioid issue has reached epidemic proportions and alcohol is not anywhere near the same threat level.
 
Dodger12

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65fastback2plus2 said:
This is not accurate.

Its easy to find the statistics for this stuff too:

Compare:

Opioid use disorders resulted in 51,000 worldwide deaths in 2013 up from 18,000 deaths in 1990.

vs.

  • In 2012, 3.3 million deaths, or 5.9 percent of all global deaths (7.6 percent for men and 4.0 percent for women), were attributable to alcohol consumption

51,000 or 3,300,000? Seems pretty clear.
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So you're comparing a domestic figure with the stats from the rest of the world? The US consumes around 98% of the world's Hydrophone and the difference between what we consume as the top consumer and the #2 on that list is staggering. Overdose deaths overtook car accidents as the leading cause of accidental death years ago.

Maybe you're trying to make a pro-drug point and you might have a point if you didn't include prescription drugs.
 
Dodger12

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DFWJC said:
100% true if you take what you said at exact face value without any further assumptions.

You said prescription/opioid drug abuse vs just plain old alcohol (no abuse mentioned).

Take out the addiction part and it makes it not even a comparison.
People that are disagreeing with you are adding to your comment something you did not say.
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Then let me clarify my point. The threat posed from opiates, which are over prescribed, far outweigh the threat(s) posed by alcohol to the general public.
 
Melonfeud

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BigStar said:
I agree with everything your posted except the last statement in understanding the opinion of letting them die due to poor decisions made prior. I can say I'm the same way; have 1 gimme 100 but lucky to only play with opiates and not go full fledge. There is something to the schematics of the brain after long term opiate use so you're right it seems like almost a pointless fight. The "addictive gene/personality" doesn't mean we don't still have choices and you're 100% correct. But to let someone die from an od in the "richest" country in the world (not WV; they get the shaft in regards to health services) says more about us as a culture than it does about drug use. Many with that opinion (not you specifically) then turn and in the same sentence complain about gangs n crime, etc. We can't have it both ways, something's gotta give.
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Good stuff,friend!
I'm glad you took the time of reading my ' germ' post in what could be perceived as a 'sterile' or blameless forum setting being projected by other forum members, and I'll attempt to clarify for my closing statement, I said I could understand Mr.zero empathy, Compassion or sympathy guy's view ( pretty sure a veteran D.E.A. agent would hold a similar one )
And that Mr.zero's " priorities in life" had been firmly established,,,,, I myself wouldn't want to see them or anybody else die.
 
BigStar

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Melonfeud said:
Good stuff,friend!
I'm glad you took the time of reading my ' germ' post in what could be perceived as a 'sterile' or blameless forum setting being projected by other forum members, and I'll attempt to clarify for my closing statement, I said I could understand Mr.zero empathy, Compassion or sympathy guy's view ( pretty sure a veteran D.E.A. agent would hold a similar one )
And that Mr.zero's " priorities in life" had been firmly established,,,,, I myself wouldn't want to see them or anybody else die.
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I see what you meant moreso now re-reading it. I even admitted to the "pointless fight" myself so was agreeing with you wo catching on tbh. The banging your head against the wall feeling from someone who works in the element like the DEA agent example would surely jade their perspective over time even if going into the profession with "extra" compassion towards the users initially. Feel ya.
 
Rockport

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Dodger12 said:
Sure. So can chocolate and fatty foods and a whole host of other things. I'm not minimizing alcohol or it's dangers when not responsibly consumed. But the opioid issue has reached epidemic proportions and alcohol is not anywhere near the same threat level.
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That's ridiculous. Alcohol destroys the lives of many many more people than opioids.
 
MichaelWinicki

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visionary said:
These are societal and cultural problems and not just "drug problems"

This is a much larger issue
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Agreed.

We've never had so much "stuff". Even those living below the poverty live a much better life and have access to much more than those living in poverty just 50 years ago.

And even though we have all this "stuff" we're unhappy and unfulfilled which leads to boredom, self esteem issues and looking for anything that can make us feel better about ourselves (like drugs).
 
visionary

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MichaelWinicki said:
Agreed.

We've never had so much "stuff". Even those living below the poverty live a much better life and have access to much more than those living in poverty just 50 years ago.

And even though we have all this "stuff" we're unhappy and unfulfilled which leads to boredom, self esteem issues and looking for anything that can make us feel better about ourselves (like drugs).
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Agreed MW
All these issues are important in themselves but are in many ways a symptom of larger problems

Lack of jobs, lack of education, lack of values and religion, the breakdown of the family unit, self esteem all tie into it

We have spent almost 2 generations ad the dominant power in the world with our population largely insulated from the world, each person happy in their little cocoon. That won't work anymore. The world is shrinking and the general populace in Europe and Asia is much more engaged and understands global trends much much better than we do. Their children are expected to pick careers of the future while we are looking backward. If we continue this trend I have no doubt that many countries like china and India will overtake us in the next 50 years.

The government is so partisan that it cannot see further than its nose and is completely sold out to special interest on both sides so nothing really gets done

We cannot continue to have a population that votes based on gun control and coal jobs and expect a government that prioritizes the future

The world has moved on and we are still stuck in the past
 
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