PFT: Judge rejects NFL’s position on “fundamental fairness” in arbitrations

CATCH17 said:

I don't get why the NFL wants to fight this battle so hard.

There is no long term gain for them win or lose with how they have abused their powers.

This will be priority #1 in the next negotiations and the players won't play if they don't get it squared away.

Also, I don't think the owners like how this makes their product look.

It's like Goodell wants to get fired.

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the old saying about absolute power is being proven once again; Goodell is drunk on it. And if there are dissenting opinions in the Front Office we are certainly hearing very little about it.

diefree666 said:

the old saying about absolute power is being proven once again; Goodell is drunk on it. And if there are dissenting opinions in the Front Office we are certainly hearing very little about it.

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I almost wonder if the guy has made so much money that he wants to do bad so he can get out.

CATCH17 said:

I almost wonder if the guy has made so much money that he wants to do bad so he can get out.

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Interesting. Could be truth in that abstraction.

diefree666 said:

It is hard to believe the NFL front office is so tone dead on all of this. The NFLPA is clearly setting the table for this to be a significant part of the next CBA negotiation.

While some here claim that most players do not care I really doubt that. They see how unfairly some are treated and that has to have an effect. More importantly the team union reps and the members of the board DO see how bad this is. THEY are the movers and shakers in the NFLPA. THEY are the ones that set the agenda for the NFLPA.

The worse the NFL looks in this the more the NFLPA gains. Goodell and company are just plain deaf dumb and blind to that so far.

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95% of players will never be affected by this. They ONLY care about the money they can make and a few work conditions like less practice and more off days. They don't care about stuff that will only affect the thugs in the league.

The NFLPA will use it, but players wouldn't sit out games and miss checks over it.

I think the NFL will lose this case because of two words: Fundamental Fairness.
The argument in Zeke's defense is strong based on:
-The main investigator for the NFL and only person to interview the alleged victim deemed the "victim" not credible.
-The Columbus Police Department also deemed the alleged victim non credible.
-The state prosecutor declined to pursue charges against Zeke.
-The affidavit turned in by a security guard claiming the alleged victim was in a physical altercation around the time Zeke allegedly
battered her.
-The electronic communication trail left by the alleged victim reveal intent to harm
-Witness accounts tell a far different story than what the alleged victim told the police.

Now,to be clear,I do not and never will condone domestic violence.
If a player is found guilty of such act,then suspend him.No questions.
But you have to have a slam dunk of a case to hang that label on an individual.
That is not the case here.Not even close.
Tom Brady got suspended for tampering with footballs.
Goodell wants to make up for that Ray Rice fiasco.
This is not the case to do it...and he will lose.

CATCH17 said:

I almost wonder if the guy has made so much money that he wants to do bad so he can get out.

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He could make himself look real good to the snowflake crowd by resigning saying that he was appalled by the atmosphere in the NFL front office; and could no longer take it. A good speechwriter could make him shine like a new penny; instead of the old turd he is.

He has got his millions and has no use for the owners anymore. So if that was the case he would have done it by now.

He wants more money at this particular trough and will do anything to keep it; that and the POWER which might now be just as important as money.

erod said:

95% of players will never be affected by this. They ONLY care about the money they can make and a few work conditions like less practice and more off days. They don't care about stuff that will only affect the thugs in the league.

The NFLPA will use it, but players wouldn't sit out games and miss checks over it.

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That is why I mentioned the team union reps and the board. THEY set the agenda; not the rank and file. THAT was proven in the last CBA negotiations. And the rank and file will go along with what they want. THAT has also been proven in the past.

And frankly I think you are very wrong about how many players do not care. The fringe guys- desperate to just make a roster- they probably do not care. BUT the established starters and those thinking they can be in the NFL for some years- very different story.

FuzzyLumpkins said:

Then they dismiss the appeal. Procedurally one can appeal an injunction. Sure the NFL will use the same old tired arguments they've been using for decades at this point as they always do however that will not stop them from filing an appeal.

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Wait and see homey. I remember you telling me the way things would go last November's election too and you were wrong then too.

JoeKing said:

Wait and see homey. I remember you telling me the way things would go last November's election too and you were wrong then too.

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Wait and see what?

He's right as are the other 3-4 people who have said the same thing. Procedurally the NFL can appeal an injunction.

Sydla said:

Wait and see what?

He's right as are the other 3-4 people who have said the same thing. Procedurally the NFL can appeal an injunction.

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If they can, they will but they won't so you don't know what you are talking about. I know you hate my guts, the feelings are mutual.

JoeKing said:

If they can, they will but they won't so you don't know what you are talking about. I know you hate my guts, the feelings are mutual.

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They won't necessarily file an appeal if the timing doesn't work. For example if the appeal won't be heard until after the season is over, it likely makes no sense to file the appeal.

I don't hate you. Frankly I don't take this place seriously enough to warrant that kind of emotion.

If you do, that says quite a bit about yourself.

QUOTE="PBCCowboy, post: 7605961, member: 38061"]I think the NFL will lose this case because of two words: Fundamental Fairness.
The argument in Zeke's defense is strong based on:
-The main investigator for the NFL and only person to interview the alleged victim deemed the "victim" not credible.
-The Columbus Police Department also deemed the alleged victim non credible.
-The state prosecutor declined to pursue charges against Zeke.
-The affidavit turned in by a security guard claiming the alleged victim was in a physical altercation around the time Zeke allegedly
battered her.
-The electronic communication trail left by the alleged victim reveal intent to harm
-Witness accounts tell a far different story than what the alleged victim told the police.

Now,to be clear,I do not and never will condone domestic violence.
If a player is found guilty of such act,then suspend him.No questions.
But you have to have a slam dunk of a case to hang that label on an individual.
That is not the case here.Not even close.
Tom Brady got suspended for tampering with footballs.
Goodell wants to make up for that Ray Rice fiasco.
This is not the case to do it...and he will lose.[/QUOTE]
Who are you?
I like this guy!

And also... so good to see @aria doing her/his thing all over this place. Wish I could devote more attention to other forums like others.




EDIT: I totally messed up this "quote", didn't I?

I still think Zeke ultimately loses, but his chance of winning is not zero. It would be foolish to drop the case just because of what could happen if there's another incident.

I hope the NFL learns from this and puts together a more balanced process for enacting player discipline. Putting all of it on one person is only serving to create PR problems for them. It's incredible to me how badly Goodell has bungled so many of these cases.

Sydla said:

They won't necessarily file an appeal if the timing doesn't work. For example if the appeal won't be heard until after the season is over, it likely makes no sense to file the appeal.

I don't hate you. Frankly I don't take this place seriously enough to warrant that kind of emotion.

If you do, that says quite a bit about yourself.

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They won't file an appeal until after the season. I like hating you.

Can we set an Over/Under line somehow on whether or not the NFL appeals a PI should it be granted?

nickjamesw43 said:

I still think Zeke ultimately loses, but his chance of winning is not zero. It would be foolish to drop the case just because of what could happen if there's another incident.

I hope the NFL learns from this and puts together a more balanced process for enacting player discipline. Putting all of it on one person is only serving to create PR problems for them. It's incredible to me how badly Goodell has bungled so many of these cases.

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All the NFL has to do to avoid this situation again is listen to it's own investigator's recommendation. This isn't rocket science.

PBCCowboy said:

I think the NFL will lose this case because of two words: Fundamental Fairness.
The argument in Zeke's defense is strong based on:
-The main investigator for the NFL and only person to interview the alleged victim deemed the "victim" not credible.
-The Columbus Police Department also deemed the alleged victim non credible.
-The state prosecutor declined to pursue charges against Zeke.
-The affidavit turned in by a security guard claiming the alleged victim was in a physical altercation around the time Zeke allegedly
battered her.
-The electronic communication trail left by the alleged victim reveal intent to harm
-Witness accounts tell a far different story than what the alleged victim told the police.

Now,to be clear,I do not and never will condone domestic violence.
If a player is found guilty of such act,then suspend him.No questions.
But you have to have a slam dunk of a case to hang that label on an individual.
That is not the case here.Not even close.
Tom Brady got suspended for tampering with footballs.
Goodell wants to make up for that Ray Rice fiasco.
This is not the case to do it...and he will lose.

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Excellent summary

FuzzyLumpkins said:

The Brady case specifically states that there were no fundamental fairness issues relevant to the circumstance in the Brady case. That to me left the door open for it being an issue in future cases.

I argued that to that troll who kept on saying he was right on Brady trumps all because he went to Harvard.

I've always maintained that there were issues with arbitration law because of their suppressing inconvenient aspects of the investigation as well as with labor law because of unequal punishments.

I've been pleased to see Kessler make these arguments and am cofident in their merits.

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Fuzzy, which troll? There has been a lot

JoeKing said:

They won't file an appeal until after the season. I like hating you.

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Filing after the season would make no sense. The only reason to appeal the injunction would be to still try to suspend him games this season.

If it gets to the offseason just go to regular trial and don't waste time on the appeal.

nickjamesw43 said:

I still think Zeke ultimately loses, but his chance of winning is not zero. It would be foolish to drop the case just because of what could happen if there's another incident.

I hope the NFL learns from this and puts together a more balanced process for enacting player discipline. Putting all of it on one person is only serving to create PR problems for them. It's incredible to me how badly Goodell has bungled so many of these cases.

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It's incredible to me how badly Goodell has bungled so many of these cases.

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Not to me. If you listened to his presser today. He said a lot and said nothing. Players " should " stand , not " shall " stand. Rodger you are a lawyer and know the impact of shall.....

Also, lots of we will work in the communities with no definition of the ideas presented/agreed upon.

Seems to me that all teams have had some community based, very worthwhile programs. Going " social justice" style isn't going to win any fans back... and probably the reason he " weaseled answered" this question several times with the " in the communities" line