ST: Cowboys defense has gone three games without a takeaway

Sydla · Oct 19, 2017

ondaedg said:
Well the old Buccaneers D seemed to be good at creating turnovers and I think that many if us had high hopes that Rod could reproduce that effort with a more Tampa 2 style of zone. Not working out the way we had hoped.

15 years ago. Defenses change. Offenses change. You are seeing more spread principles in the pros than you did back in the early to mid 2000s. Defenses have adjusted over the years - more nickel packages, etc.

Its time to put the old bull out to pasture.

Alexander · Oct 19, 2017

This is not a new issue with Marinelli's defenses in Dallas.

I know people love to bring up how Chicago had turnovers galore, but that was clearly not coaching.

Tillman, Briggs and Urlacher etc., did those things in spite of his schemes.

It seems there is an article practically every year about how Marinelli is frustrated by the lack of turnovers forced.

A year here or there is an anomaly.

This is an official issue and Marinelli needs to own it and he needs to be held accountable for it.

Idgit · Oct 19, 2017

ondaedg said:
Well the old Buccaneers D seemed to be good at creating turnovers and I think that many if us had high hopes that Rod could reproduce that effort with a more Tampa 2 style of zone. Not working out the way we had hoped.

So was that CHI team with Peanut Tillman and the gang on it that Rod coached. It's not the coaches. Fans go to coaching when there's not an obvious and better answer.

It's too easy to run on us and too easy to completely short and intermediate passes, and we have poor S play. This is why we don't take the ball away more. And the few chances we've gotten, we've botched. Anthony Brown, Orlando Scandrick, and Crawford have all gotten their hands on balls (heh) in recent weeks, and haven't been able to come up with the game-changing plays. Any one of which would probably have won a game during that stretch.

jobberone · Oct 19, 2017

Alexander said:
This is not a new issue with Marinelli's defenses in Dallas.

I know people love to bring up how Chicago had turnovers galore, but that was clearly not coaching.

Tillman, Briggs and Urlacher etc., did those things in spite of his schemes.

It seems there is an article practically every year about how Marinelli is frustrated by the lack of turnovers forced.

A year here or there is an anomaly.

This is an official issue and Marinelli needs to own it and he needs to be held accountable for it.

I still consider it's the players more than the scheme but you can't ignore the latter. The only thing that may change is more push up the middle and that takes a special player. The other is dialing up the blitzes but I'm not certain now is the time for that. I'd wait for the back 7 to get better before pushing the blitz packages.

Alexander · Oct 19, 2017

Idgit said:
So was that CHI team with Peanut Tillman and the gang on it that Rod coached. It's not the coaches. Fans go to coaching when there's not an obvious and better answer.

And yet fans clamor about a coach being a difference maker.

All I know is Marinelli has had mediocre results without top shelf talent like Sapp, Simeon Rice, Tommie Harris, Derrick Brooks, Urlacher, Peanut Tillman and Lance Briggs getting those turnovers.

So cut it out with the rain maker routine since that is apparently the reality.

Idgit · Oct 19, 2017

Alexander said:
And yet fans clamor about a coach being a difference maker.

All I know is Marinelli has had mediocre results without top shelf talent like Sapp, Simeon Rice, Tommie Harris, Derrick Brooks, Urlacher, Peanut Tillman and Lance Briggs getting those turnovers.

So cut it out with the rain maker routine since that is apparently the reality.

Coaches matter a ton, though their impact is felt more over time than some fans tend to think and less on a game-to-game basis. I'm a bit on the fence about Marinelli, overall, but there's no doubt those players in CHI loved him and credited them with their success, pretty much directly contradicting what you're peddling here.

"Tillman: Can I say one thing, real quick? You guys are so blessed to have Rod Marinelli. That guy is the best coach, defensive coordinator in the National Football League. I've had some of my best seasons when he was my D-coordinator in Chicago. You guys, Cowboy nation, I'm telling y'all - you don't understand how much of a gem that this guy is. He is a steal. Y'all need to give that man all the money. He is so valuable to his team. He is just an awesome guy.

How much more talent does Marinelli need to get the defense to the next level?

Tillman: I want to say this in a respectful way because I think the Dallas Cowboys defense, they're good players, but they weren't household names. They were names people didn't know, and look how amazing they did.

Now, I think if he had just a sprinkle of talent, they probably could have taken it a little bit further ... Rod Marinelli reminds me of Bill Belichick. You look at Chris Hogan, the guy played lacrosse, and then he goes out and has a career day. I'm looking at Danny Amendola, Julian Edleman, these are just normal guys - 5'9", 5'10" - but they're quick. They're not fast. But they go out and they make plays for them. Rod Marinelli, he does that with defensive guys all the time, and I think he's done it in Dallas the last couple years ... So, give him just two or three more guys, athletic, fast, and he can do it all.

Then again, I've been beating the drum for more talent on defense for a very long time at this point. I'm not arguing we have talent. The defense stinks. But we do have a scheme that's supposed to produce turnovers, and a coach that's well-known for having defenses that product turnovers, and recently, in the NFL.

The issue has been that we have had poor LB and S play, and that our front has been missing their run fits and tackling poorly. Those last two things do happen to be coaching issues, btw, so it's not like there's not enough blame to spread around for the lousy defense.

9darter · Oct 19, 2017

KingintheNorth said:
Scheme, talent, environment.

Ouch.

But this.

gmoney112 · Oct 19, 2017

So what happened in 2014?

Alexander · Oct 19, 2017

Idgit said:
Coaches matter a ton, though their impact is felt more over time than some fans tend to think and less on a game-to-game basis. I'm a bit on the fence about Marinelli, overall, but there's no doubt those players in CHI loved him and credited them with their success, pretty much directly contradicting what you're peddling here.

"Tillman: Can I say one thing, real quick? You guys are so blessed to have Rod Marinelli. That guy is the best coach, defensive coordinator in the National Football League. I've had some of my best seasons when he was my D-coordinator in Chicago. You guys, Cowboy nation, I'm telling y'all - you don't understand how much of a gem that this guy is. He is a steal. Y'all need to give that man all the money. He is so valuable to his team. He is just an awesome guy.

How much more talent does Marinelli need to get the defense to the next level?

Tillman: I want to say this in a respectful way because I think the Dallas Cowboys defense, they're good players, but they weren't household names. They were names people didn't know, and look how amazing they did.

Now, I think if he had just a sprinkle of talent, they probably could have taken it a little bit further ... Rod Marinelli reminds me of Bill Belichick. You look at Chris Hogan, the guy played lacrosse, and then he goes out and has a career day. I'm looking at Danny Amendola, Julian Edleman, these are just normal guys - 5'9", 5'10" - but they're quick. They're not fast. But they go out and they make plays for them. Rod Marinelli, he does that with defensive guys all the time, and I think he's done it in Dallas the last couple years ... So, give him just two or three more guys, athletic, fast, and he can do it all.

Then again, I've been beating the drum for more talent on defense for a very long time at this point. I'm not arguing we have talent. The defense stinks. But we do have a scheme that's supposed to produce turnovers, and a coach that's well-known for having defenses that product turnovers, and recently, in the NFL.

The issue has been that we have had poor LB and S play, and that our front has been missing their run fits and tackling poorly. Those last two things do happen to be coaching issues, btw, so it's not like there's not enough blame to spread around for the lousy defense.

There is no doubt players like and appreciate Marinelli and his passion. He is a charming battle axe, he yells a lot, talks about Vietnam.

But when has he taken mediocre talent and got them to produce to levels that matter?

And no offense to Tillman, if he is comparing Marinelli to Belichick, well I just have to laugh uncontrollably.

All this means to me is what I have felt about Marinelli for a while.

He needs talent.

To me the definition of a great coach is getting talent to play above themselves. He has yet to do that anywhere.

He has got talent to be talent. His scheme is aging badly.

Teague31 · Oct 19, 2017

It would be awesome if we could have a legitimate coaching vs talent debate. But when both completely suck that’s not possible

Sydla · Oct 19, 2017

Alexander said:
There is no doubt players like and appreciate Marinelli and his passion. He is a charming battle axe, he yells a lot, talks about Vietnam.

But when has he taken mediocre talent and got them to produce to levels that matter?

And no offense to Tillman, if he is comparing Marinelli to Belichick, well I just have to laugh uncontrollably.

All this means to me is what I have felt about Marinelli for a while.

He needs talent.

To me the definition of a great coach is getting talent to play above themselves. He has yet to do that anywhere.

He has got talent to be talent. His scheme is aging badly.

Exactly. I want the coach that makes the talent better, not the coach that talent makes better.

We apparently have the latter.

Floatyworm · Oct 19, 2017

Marinellie football=No turnovers

You would think after 4 years of this crap people would figure this out.

bodi · Oct 19, 2017

Floatyworm said:
Marinellie football=No turnovers

You would think after 4 years of this crap people would figure this out.

yup

GimmeTheBall! · Oct 20, 2017

jobberone said:
Cowboys defense has gone three games without a takeaway

BY DREW DAVISON ddavison@star-telegram.com OCTOBER 19, 2017 5:34 PM

FRISCO

Byron Jones kept it simple.

The Dallas Cowboys free safety had a simple answer in terms of what the defense must improve upon coming off the bye week and a disappointing 2-3 start.　

“Take the ball away,” Jones said. “Just take the ball away.”　

So far this season, that’s easier said than done. This is a unit that seemingly doesn’t have a nose for the ball or any players who would be described as “ballhawks.”　

The defense has produced just three takeaways in five games, and is on pace for 10 (rounding up). They haven’t had a takeaway since Jourdan Lewis’ interception late in the third quarter in Week 2 at Denver.　

The drought has gone on for 213 defensive snaps and counting. Forget the 40 takeaway goal before the season — a feat that hasn’t been reached in the NFL since 2012 — this team should be happy to get half that at this rate.　

http://www.star-telegram.com/sports/nfl/dallas-cowboys/article179838806.html

Intriguing, yet pedestrian.

Zman5 · Oct 20, 2017

The DBs we sent packing are getting INTS they weren't getting under Marinelli. So is it the players or the scheme?

jobberone · Oct 20, 2017

Zman5 said:
The DBs we sent packing are getting INTS they weren't getting under Marinelli. So is it the players or the scheme?

That's a good question. A lot of DB INTs come from front pressure. We're getting some pressure but despite stats my eyeballs tell me we aren't getting quite enough.......yet. I think that will improve. Add in Hitchens and Lee to the DBs and I expect to see more pass defense including TOs. We'll see.

As far as coaching goes, Marinelli is doing decent with what he has. If things don't pick up with the addition to the DL and the cure to the LBers then I'll be in line to rail on him.......some. He's got to get more out of the D and filling the holes should net more regardless of scheme etc.

Proximo · Oct 20, 2017

Sydla said:
I've said before, coaching can make a difference in generating turnovers.

Granted, this is college, but for the past few years Notre Dame was pretty blah at generating turnovers and getting after the QB. This offseason, they brought in Mike Elko to be DC, who has built his defense around forcing turnovers and getting after the QB. In just one offseason, without a ton of new talent on their defense, Notre Dame has gone from a Cowboys-esque incompetent defense to one that suddenly can get after the QB with their DEs and blitzes and has as many turnovers in 5 games as they had in 12 games last year.

There was a segment on Elko and they talked about the drills he runs specifically to work on generating turnovers.

So when people say our turnover issues are tied to the scheme and coach, I tend to agree.

We were near the top of the league in takeaways in 2014.

noshame · Oct 20, 2017

When you use a passive scheme, you get passive results.

DogFace · Oct 20, 2017

gmoney112 said:
So what happened in 2014?

Point taken, but maybe we were just lucky and that does play a role in turnovers. Whatever it is.

We’ve had, what seems like, many more years of very low turnovers. Giving the wr 10 yard cushions when 6 is needed is stupid and must change. It simply will not ever work.

Western · Oct 20, 2017

Marinelli is a by-product of the defensive successes and player-personnel acquisitions of Lovie Smith & Tony Dungy.
He and Kiffin were bad hires by Jerry.
Jerry always trying to rekindle past glory.

If Garrett wasn't such a go-along to get-along head coach, he should have demanded from, & confronted Jerry that Marinelli should be relieved of his defensive coordinator position.

Head coaches should demand accountability & performance by their coordinators, regardless of their perceived 'eminence' around the league.
It took Jimmy two seasons to realize that David Shula was a terrible offensive coordinator, & subsequently canned Shula in favor of Norv in 1991.

ST: Cowboys defense has gone three games without a takeaway

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What's it going to be then, eh?

Fattening up

Kane Ala

What's it going to be then, eh?

Fattening up

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What's it going to be then, eh?

Defender of the Star

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The Labeled One

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Junior College Transfer

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Kane Ala

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I'm not dead yet......

Carharris2

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