Byron Jones

Cowboyz88 said:

IMO, when Jones tackles, he catches the ball carrier instead of delivering the hit.

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You're not alone he literally catches them then drags his legs until the fall down, every time.

gimmesix said:

He threw a guy down out of bounds, then took off his helmet after the ridiculous play at the end of the half. I don't consider that evidence that he's a corner being shoehorned into safety. He gave up the TD in man coverage on one of the best tight ends in the game right now. Otherwise, I saw no major holes in his safety play yesterday.

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Key being “yesterday” - plenty of issues with his safety play over his entire body of work. Yesterday just showed that he’s an idiot.

Sydla said:

You know he's played more than just one game, right?

My belief he's not a great FS and likely a better CB is his totality of work. He has poor reaction time back there, he struggles with his reads at times, and he seems to be at his best when he comes down and locks up a slot WR or TE in man coverage.

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Word

robbieruff said:

Key being “yesterday” - plenty of issues with his safety play over his entire body of work. Yesterday just showed that he’s an idiot.

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He hasn't played poorly at safety, period. Yes, he's missed some tackles and yes, he's given up some completions, but most of the time he's taking away his man and he's filling where he is supposed to fill.

Sydla said:

You know he's played more than just one game, right?

My belief he's not a great FS and likely a better CB is his totality of work. He has poor reaction time back there, he struggles with his reads at times, and he seems to be at his best when he comes down and locks up a slot WR or TE in man coverage.

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I know that's your belief, but I believe you are off base and his totality of work shows that he's a solid, but not spectacular, free safety. I know some are not going to be satisfied with that, but it is what it is. I think it's just silly to focus in on Jones because he's not great when we have some clear deficiences that are really a problem.

And just to document for those who like to say I don't know what I am talking about...I said he couldn't play the safety position early in the year LAST YEAR.

He is a cb and I am not sure how good of a cornerback.

Yakuza Rich said:

It was a BS call. The momentum of the ball carrier was bringing him down and Byron was trying to get his legs out of the way so he didn't get rolled up on. He did give a little shove, but it was so small it was ridiculous. The refs didn't throw the flag until the Chiefs complained.




YR

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The shove was intentional and unecessary

gimmesix said:

He hasn't played poorly at safety, period. Yes, he's missed some tackles and yes, he's given up some completions, but most of the time he's taking away his man and he's filling where he is supposed to fill.

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So you haven't seen any falloff in his play then?

gimmesix said:

I know that's your belief, but I believe you are off base and his totality of work shows that he's a solid, but not spectacular, free safety. I know some are not going to be satisfied with that, but it is what it is. I think it's just silly to focus in on Jones because he's not great when we have some clear deficiences that are really a problem.

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He's not a very good tackler and he struggles when he's asked to play single high or in Cover 2.

I think he could actually be a pretty good CB IMO. I think he's out of place at S because we see time and time again failures in his responsibilities as a FS. If the best thing we can say week to week about him is that he seems to take out the TE or a slot WR when he mans up, that's pretty telling about his FS skills. When was the last time you saw him make a great play as a deep safety, or break on a pass on a deep zone and make a play? His best plays come when he's basically manning up.

Who is focusing on Jones only? That's weak sauce IMO. Other areas of the defense have also gotten criticism. Smith gets ripped weekly here. We've criticized Heath's play. Brown has gotten criticized a lot as well.

I think it's misleading to try to make it out like people are just picking on Jones and putting all the blame on him

robbieruff said:

So you haven't seen any falloff in his play then?

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Fall-off? I've seen him play in a secondary that includes Heath as the other safety, rookies and Anthony Brown playing up and down. The only stabilizing factor other than Jones is Scandrick and he missed some time because of the broken hand and wasn't playing as well coming back from it (although he's picked it back up some).

If you watch Jones, and I don't mean only when he's either making a play or being picked on for not making one, but play in and play out, he's getting his job done. He's where he is supposed to be, forcing the ball to go elsewhere. I think a few missed tackles and a few completed passes against him are being overblown.

This game is a good example of how when some start disliking players, every time that player messes us becomes a point of contention. Two unsportsmanlike conduct calls and giving up a TD to one of the better TEs in the game = he's can't play safety. It's quite ridiculous.

My dream secondary

CB - Scandrick/Lewis
CB - Jones
Slot - Brown
FS - Woods
SS - Awuzie

gimmesix said:

I thought it was ticky-tack.

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That gets called 100% of the time.

Sydla said:

He's not a very good tackler and he struggles when he's asked to play single high or in Cover 2.

I think he could actually be a pretty good CB IMO. I think he's out of place at S because we see time and time again failures in his responsibilities as a FS. If the best thing we can say week to week about him is that he seems to take out the TE or a slot WR when he mans up, that's pretty telling about his FS skills. When was the last time you saw him make a great play as a deep safety, or break on a pass on a deep zone and make a play? His best plays come when he's basically manning up.

Who is focusing on Jones only? That's weak sauce IMO. Other areas of the defense have also gotten criticism. Smith gets ripped weekly here. We've criticized Heath's play. Brown has gotten criticized a lot as well.

I think it's misleading to try to make it out like people are just picking on Jones and putting all the blame on him

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I didn't say fans are only focusing on Jones. I said Jones is not the problem while other positions are. We need to replace Heath, we were hurting at linebacker because of Lee being out, being forced to start Jaylon Smith before he's ready was really hurting our second-level defense (he's showing some signs of improvement in a limited role, though).

I don't see the problems at FS that you are seeing. I don't see him blowing his responsibilities. He's not making great plays, but how often are the quarterbacks actually throwing into his coverage area? I just have not seen that many attempts where Jones was the player who was beaten. A safety's job in coverage is to cover his area or his man. If that forces the QB to throw elsewhere, then he's done his job.

Sydla said:

My dream secondary

CB - Scandrick/Lewis
CB - Jones
Slot - Brown
FS - Woods
SS - Awuzie

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I like your lineup, but I would replace Jones with Lewis and I think we have a decent group.

gimmesix said:

I didn't say fans are only focusing on Jones. I said Jones is not the problem while other positions are. We need to replace Heath, we were hurting at linebacker because of Lee being out, being forced to start Jaylon Smith before he's ready was really hurting our second-level defense (he's showing some signs of improvement in a limited role, though).

I don't see the problems at FS that you are seeing. I don't see him blowing his responsibilities. He's not making great plays, but how often are the quarterbacks actually throwing into his coverage area? I just have not seen that many attempts where Jones was the player who was beaten. A safety's job in coverage is to cover his area or his man. If that forces the QB to throw elsewhere, then he's done his job.

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Jones' play as a FS is part of the problem. Jones' play when he mans up a TE, is not.

Again, when it's almost a weekly thing here where we praise Jones for taking a TE out of the game when he manned up but finding mistakes when he actually is playing S, unfortunately, that's telling you something.

Tenkamenin said:

I like your lineup, but I would replace Jones with Lewis and I think we have a decent group.

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Interchange the outside CBs. I am just a bit higher on Jones as a CB than some. He also has some size and athleticism that could help on larger WR/TEs. Frankly, if you had a creative DC, you could probably move Jones and Lewis around a lot based on matchups.

gimmesix said:

Fall-off? I've seen him play in a secondary that includes Heath as the other safety, rookies and Anthony Brown playing up and down. The only stabilizing factor other than Jones is Scandrick and he missed some time because of the broken hand and wasn't playing as well coming back from it (although he's picked it back up some).

If you watch Jones, and I don't mean only when he's either making a play or being picked on for not making one, but play in and play out, he's getting his job done. He's where he is supposed to be, forcing the ball to go elsewhere. I think a few missed tackles and a few completed passes against him are being overblown.

This game is a good example of how when some start disliking players, every time that player messes us becomes a point of contention. Two unsportsmanlike conduct calls and giving up a TD to one of the better TEs in the game = he's can't play safety. It's quite ridiculous.

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I have been talking about him being a stabilizing force (those exact words) in the secondary since the beginning of last season so I agree with you on that score. In fact, have made similar overall points to yours to support that POV. For me, the wheels began to come off in last season's second half (his inability to make plays on the ball), culminating in what I thought was a debacle in the GB playoff game...that maintaining the zone integrity explanation he gave for allowing Jared Cook to run right by him (with no other offensive player in the vicinity and Cook having KILLED us much of the game) to catch that sideline pass unmolested...well, let's just say that did it for me.

I will grant you that he's been surrounded by a drop off in talent/experience this season...but this is his THIRD year in the league and he needs to start showing SOMETHING by way of game altering playmaking, right??? I mean we've seen leaps by others on the defense...shoot, even Oscan looks like he's physically much better (despite the celebration induced shoulder injury, yesterday...smh). Perhaps you're right that he's being asked to do a lot to cover for guys that are worse players (Heath) or young and learning on the job...but frankly, I saw Woods make more instinctive plays as a safety yesterday than Byron has made all season - hits to break up passes with perfect timing and play recognition, better angles, etc. And don't get me started about Byron's tackling form!?! He looks like he was never taught tackling fundamentals! Moreover, Byron just doesn't appear to have the headiness to play safety. Maybe everything that's asked of him is too much to process as a "centerfielder"...perhaps things should be simplified to allow his athleticism and instincts to take over. Barry Church made more plays than Byron ever has with only a 1/4 of his athletic ability. And the fact that he was single-handedly keeping the Chiefs in that game during one stretch certainly didn't help his optics.

This season will be his defining one in my view...he'll either benefit from the defense's overall improved play (arrow is pointing up) and start to make plays himself OR be moved to a new role in the defense (what I expect) OR be managed out via trade or by function of his rookie contract ending. He's at a cross-roads and will need to have a bounce back performance against the Falcons.

I believe Jones was drafted to cover TEs. a huge weapon that teams were developing.
by definition that makes him a SS which he is not. he is not a great hitter or tackler.
so if not in nickle or dime he is out of position. i dont get upset with him because i know what his job is.
because the good TEs are 3 down players he is out not in an ideal position more than we want.
the hope is that he "grows" into the ideal position but he is closer to a CB than a SS and thats the problem.