Marinelli defense and the 1 tech

HungryLion · Nov 20, 2017

One of the things a lot of people are discussing is the cowboys lack of a true 1 tech DT.

I remember the Tampa defense under Kiffin and Marinelli had Booger McFarland playing.

Booger wasn’t a star by any means but he was a solid run stuffing 1 tech DT.

So I was wondering what some people’s thoughts are on why the cowboys haven’t put any effort into getting a guy like him on our DL.

Or is my memory of those Tampa defenses fuzzy?

kiheikiwi · Nov 20, 2017

I am one of those beating the drum for a true nose, yes Booger and Sapp were the tandem back in the Tampa days. Rod went on record saying that in his system he does not value the nose, any large framed player can clog up the middle. To spend a high draft pick on a 1-tech they would have to be both a good run plugger and also be able to rush inside. That's why we traded out of the 1-tech who ended up in Minnesota, only a plugger (And we ended up with Fredbeard). While that turned out to be a great move - nonmove, I vehemently disagree.
A talented nose next to a playmaking 3-tech should be a must. And would help everyone on the defense.
2 examples of great inside fronts are Philly (yuk) and Rams. Philly has Jerringan and Cox, Rams have Brockers and Donald. And they both wreak havoc.
They have drafted their players high - Cox, Brockers, and Donald are all first rounders, as was Jerrnigan but Philly got him in a trade this year.
This coming draft there 3-4 good nose tackles that could legitimately come in and help Collins up front, Da Ron Payne would fit perfectly !
If Rod will not do it, either he goes or the F.O. has to override him, its obvious to everybody else .....

MichaelWinicki · Nov 20, 2017

kiheikiwi said:
I am one of those beating the drum for a true nose, yes Booger and Sapp were the tandem back in the Tampa days. Rod went on record saying that in his system he does not value the nose, any large framed player can clog up the middle. To spend a high draft pick on a 1-tech they would have to be both a good run plugger and also be able to rush inside. That's why we traded out of the 1-tech who ended up in Minnesota, only a plugger (And we ended up with Fredbeard). While that turned out to be a great move - nonmove, I vehemently disagree.
A talented nose next to a playmaking 3-tech should be a must. And would help everyone on the defense.
2 examples of great inside fronts are Philly (yuk) and Rams. Philly has Jerringan and Cox, Rams have Brockers and Donald. And they both wreak havoc.
They have drafted their players high - Cox, Brockers, and Donald are all first rounders, as was Jerrnigan but Philly got him in a trade this year.
This coming draft there 3-4 good nose tackles that could legitimately come in and help Collins up front, Da Ron Payne would fit perfectly !
If Rod will not do it, either he goes or the F.O. has to override him, its obvious to everybody else .....

Nah.

They didn't perfectly fine last year vs. the run with a 6'2" 300lb Terrell McClain.

As long as Rod is here they aren't going to go with a NT type who doesn't move quickly.

kiheikiwi · Nov 20, 2017

Then Rod should go.

renny · Nov 20, 2017

DakPresgoat said:
One of the things a lot of people are discussing is the cowboys lack of a true 1 tech DT.

I remember the Tampa defense under Kiffin and Marinelli had Booger McFarland playing.

Booger wasn’t a star by any means but he was a solid run stuffing 1 tech DT.

So I was wondering what some people’s thoughts are on why the cowboys haven’t put any effort into getting a guy like him on our DL.

Or is my memory of those Tampa defenses fuzzy?

honestly LDE should be Irving, 1T should be Ash, 3T should be Collins RDE should be Lawrence and Crawford to the bench. Now you would generate a rush from the outside and middle with a wide body 1T.

waving monkey · Nov 21, 2017

MichaelWinicki said:
Nah.

They didn't perfectly fine last year vs. the run with a 6'2" 300lb Terrell McClain.

As long as Rod is here they aren't going to go with a NT type who doesn't move quickly.

It's clear I'm a Nellie fan but this is one view of the defensive line I can't figure out.
Talent beats lesser talent all things being equal. I'm I wrong?

stilltheguru88 · Nov 21, 2017

waving monkey said:
It's clear I'm a Nellie fan but this is one view of the defensive line I can't figure out.
Talent beats lesser talent all things being equal. I'm I wrong?

You’re wrong for being a (Nellie) fan, yes. He’s trash personified

noshame · Nov 21, 2017

Give me four athletes/studs on the defensive line.
I'll give you 0 long drives.

waving monkey · Nov 21, 2017

stilltheguru88 said:
You’re wrong for being a (Nellie) fan, yes. He’s trash personified

So glad you could straighten me out.

FuzzyLumpkins · Nov 21, 2017

The DL hasn't been the problem. LB fits and coverage have been the issue.

If there was any problem with the DL it was Irving getting surprised by the trap about a dozen times and losing contain. It served to create a large gap and create a pile to muck up weakside pursuit. I imagine it will be front and center in practice and the film room.

FuzzyLumpkins · Nov 21, 2017

noshame said:
Give me four athletes/studs on the defensive line.
I'll give you 0 long drives.

It's amazing to me that you guys can watch the games and still hold to this ideology. The DLaw, Irving, Collins, and Crawford lines are exactly what you are clamoring for and the run fits and coverage issues remain a 500 lbs gorilla.

noshame · Nov 21, 2017

FuzzyLumpkins said:
It's amazing to me that you guys can watch the games and still hold to this ideology. The DLaw, Irving, Collins, and Crawford lines are exactly what you are clamoring for and the run fits and coverage issues remain a 500 lbs gorilla.

I'm talking about the front four, not coverage/scheme/players in the back 7. I just don't need a fat turd in the middle

FuzzyLumpkins · Nov 21, 2017

noshame said:
I'm talking about the front four, not coverage/scheme/players in the back 7. I just don't need a fat turd in the middle

And are DLaw, Irving, Collins, and Crawford not an athletic front 4? What I am talking about is ignoring the back 7 is missing the issues that plague this defense.

noshame · Nov 21, 2017

FuzzyLumpkins said:
And are DLaw, Irving, Collins, and Crawford not an athletic front 4? What I am talking about is ignoring the back 7 is missing the issues that plague this defense.

I realize what you're saying but I believe the guy that started this was talking about getting some big fat dude to stuff the run in the middle

Chuck 54 · Nov 21, 2017

The DL has to play the run on the way to the QB. The only guy I see doing that is DLaw. The other guys are so intent on getting to the QB that they are either running themselves out of the play or making themselves easy targets for the trap with no gap control. That’s why we keep seeing run plays that look like they have no chance due to penetration, but the opposing RB breaks through for nice chunks. Way too many cutting lanes when DL don’t flatten out and play the run.

sbark · Nov 21, 2017

Chuck 54 said:
The DL has to play the run on the way to the QB. The only guy I see doing that is DLaw. The other guys are so intent on getting to the QB that they are either running themselves out of the play or making themselves easy targets for the trap with no gap control. That’s why we keep seeing run plays that look like they have no chance due to penetration, but the opposing RB breaks through for nice chunks. Way too many cutting lanes when DL don’t flatten out and play the run.

Gotta beleive at some point coach Lett showed D.Irving a overhead of what they were doing to him........did he just blow it off?, or does Rod M. simply stay with mantra of getting up the feild into the backfeild.

We will see versions of the trap game the rest of the year........other NFL teams copy what works, Now when Lee returns things will come under control, but until then teams will take advantage.

Sydla · Nov 21, 2017

They should have inquired about Dareus. People laughed but Jax has gone from one of the worst run Ds to one of the best in the NFL since acquiring him.

Dareus at the 1 Tech with Irving/Collins at the 3 Tech would be formidable.

It's why I think they should be all over Bennie Logan if he shakes free in FA this year.

diefree666 · Nov 21, 2017

A lot of defenses really work well with an immovable object right in the middle. Marrinelli does not believe in that and it has cost us.

ABQcowboyJR · Nov 21, 2017

renny said:
honestly LDE should be Irving, 1T should be Ash, 3T should be Collins RDE should be Lawrence and Crawford to the bench. Now you would generate a rush from the outside and middle with a wide body 1T.

I'm not convinced that DLaw would have as much success on the weakside. He is a perfect strong side defensive end. He does everything well form that position.

xwalker · Nov 21, 2017

FuzzyLumpkins said:
The DL hasn't been the problem. LB fits and coverage have been the issue.

If there was any problem with the DL it was Irving getting surprised by the trap about a dozen times and losing contain. It served to create a large gap and create a pile to muck up weakside pursuit. I imagine it will be front and center in practice and the film room.

noshame said:
I'm talking about the front four, not coverage/scheme/players in the back 7. I just don't need a fat turd in the middle

On the 1st big run up the middle, the Safety Woods was out of position. People hate Heath but he probably would have made that play.

The problems are somewhat on everybody but probably more on the LBs than any other group.

The combination of no real 1tech and Jaylon at MLB is too much to overcome. Throw in a rookie Safety and it's not hard to understand the problem.

Marinelli defense and the 1 tech

Well-Known Member

Maui No Ka Oi

"You want some?"

Maui No Ka Oi

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

I'm not dead yet......

Well-Known Member

The Boognish

The Boognish

I'm not dead yet......

The Boognish

I'm not dead yet......

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member