We won't be players in FA again in my opinion

Sydla

Well-Known Member
Messages
59,841
Reaction score
91,352
gjkoeppen said:
Or he can say I'll play for the option of 9. something mil and then get a 5 year 75 mil contract with a 35 mil signing bonus getting more guaranteed money starting the first year and over the option year and the new contract making more than doing your deal. Again player and/or their agents aren't going to leave money on the table for a player who will be in very high demand. You just don't get players who are All Pros EVERY YEAR CHEAP!!! Only in you're fantasy world.
.
Click to expand...

First, let's deal with the bolded part. My contract proposal isn't cheap. It would make him the highest paid OG in the NFL. So you look stupid arguing as if that type of contract would somehow be him taking less money. IT WOULD BE THE LARGEST OG CONTRACT IN NFL HISTORY. There would be leaving no money on the table here, so why you keep saying that is funny.

You are basically saying Martin would rather make $9MM this year (which isn't guaranteed mid you) than walk with say $25MM this year.
 
JustChip

JustChip

Well-Known Member
Messages
6,130
Reaction score
5,718
Sydla said:
If Martin is one of the four you are referencing, signing him could actually lower the cap hit this season. His option was picked up and he counts, right now, against the 2018 cap at almost $10MM. If you sign him long term, they likely would have a lower first year cap hit, thus actually saving you money against the cap in 2018.
Click to expand...

Same with Witten. They have no dead money tied up in him. He has a $6.5m salary hit if he's on the team. If he's to stay, you could sign him to a new 2 year deal with something like $5m guaranteed & $1.5m salary. The hit lowers to $4m this year. It's doubtful he plays more than 1 year so there'll be $2.5m in dead money next year, but Romo's dead money, and conceivably Dez's hit, comes off next year to more than compensate.
 
gjkoeppen

gjkoeppen

Well-Known Member
Messages
7,703
Reaction score
3,327
cern said:
thanks. outstanding. I see the zoners have their own opinions, too. and just like the former dc.com guys, some good, others not so much. same snarkiness and gnarliness remain. any idea where the others have gone? I was given some web sites to check out, but the forum died before being able to act on anything.
Click to expand...


I logged onto the 4 that were listed in different post but one like you said seems to be dead already and the other 2 are just to hard to follow along without searching down pages and pages of comments. This format is by far the closet to the old DC.com I would have though that most of the regulars from DC.com would have signed up using their screen names from there, but I recognize only a very few from there. I've only had one that replied to me with a new user name that identified himself from the DC.com site but I don't even remember what his name here is anymore.
Here are some links

https://www.*******************/303...d=1515517950178383&notif_t=group_r2j_approved ( this is the (27) The Dallas Cowboys Lite Beer Guys War Room)

https://www.*******************/370977473347661 ( this is DC.com Refugees

http://tksboys.siterubix.com/community/ (this is Dallas Digest)

Hope this helps?
.
 
cern

cern

Well-Known Member
Messages
14,900
Reaction score
21,050
Sydla said:
He would not. You seriously do not have a clue how this all works.

For one, he's not guaranteed anything in 2018. The Cowboys could cut him today and get a full $9.3MM back on the cap.

The Cowboys could end up giving him even MORE MONEY this year than the $9.3MM if they paid him a substantial signing bonus for the new deal even with a smaller guaranteed first year salary.

Again, look at Kevin Zeitler's deal. In the first year, he was paid $18MM dollars cash. $6MM in salary and a $12MM signing bonus. He walked with $18MM in cash in year one. But for cap purposes, the Browns could spread the signing bonus out and guarantee other future salaries to lower the cap hit in year 1.

So no, Martin doesn't have to take less money for the Cowboys to have a fairly cap friendly deal in Year 1.
Click to expand...
well, if it's as easy to manipulate the cap as you suggest, we'll have no trouble signing zack, Lawrence, david irving and hitchens.
 
Stash

Stash

Staff member
Messages
78,366
Reaction score
102,293
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
Typhus said:
Cmon Stash,, your old Icon was,, well,, Iconic.
Click to expand...

Trust me, I'm not any happier about the current one than you are. But a bets a bet and I have to honor it. As painful as it may be. But fear not! Ol' Beavis will return!
 
gjkoeppen

gjkoeppen

Well-Known Member
Messages
7,703
Reaction score
3,327
Sydla said:
First, let's deal with the bolded part. My contract proposal isn't cheap. It would make him the highest paid OG in the NFL. So you look stupid arguing as if that type of contract would somehow be him taking less money. IT WOULD BE THE LARGEST OG CONTRACT IN NFL HISTORY. There would be leaving no money on the table here, so why you keep saying that is funny.

You are basically saying Martin would rather make $9MM this year (which isn't guaranteed mid you) than walk with say $25MM this year.
Click to expand...

You're completely and continually missing a HUGE POINT. The example is used is the VERY SAME contract you used BUT instead getting the option year guarantee PLUS that same contract we've both used starting NEXT season which give Martin MORE money and doesn't leave any on the table. You've just have this fantasy thing in your head and don't see you're fantasy leaves money on the table and these days player aren't doing that especially a perennial All Pro. Pleas just give it a rest I'm tire of trying to hit your head against a wall for you to see the money you're leaving on the table.
.
 

Sydla

Well-Known Member
Messages
59,841
Reaction score
91,352
cern said:
well, if it's as easy to manipulate the cap as you suggest, we'll have no trouble signing zack, Lawrence, david irving and hitchens.
Click to expand...

They have the cap space to do all of that if they want. The question is do they want to? For example, do they want to pay Hitchens starting ILB money over 4-5 years? I am not sure they do, especially since they seem to believe Smith is their future starting MLB.

It will be interesting to see what they do with Lawrence - try to sign him or just tag him.

What's funny here is that you and your buddy from DC are linking to over the cap and that place shows you contract like the one proposed are used all the time and yet you guys act like it's bizarre and never happens and thinking Martin would get a similar structure is fantasyland.

I'll make it simple for you two guys. There will be no massive additional cap hit to the Cowboys cap when they sign Martin. Worst case, they will use up maybe a million or so of their available cap as of today. There's even a chance they may actually get a small amount back depending on the structure.
 
Last edited:

Sydla

Well-Known Member
Messages
59,841
Reaction score
91,352
gjkoeppen said:
You're completely and continually missing a HUGE POINT. The example is used is the VERY SAME contract you used BUT instead getting the option year guarantee PLUS that same contract we've both used starting NEXT season which give Martin MORE money and doesn't leave any on the table. You've just have this fantasy thing in your head and don't see you're fantasy leaves money on the table and these days player aren't doing that especially a perennial All Pro. Pleas just give it a rest I'm tire of trying to hit your head against a wall for you to see the money you're leaving on the table.
.
Click to expand...

There is no option year guarantee. They can cut him at any time and not be on the hook for anything.

Let's put it another way. There isn't a player in the NFL that would do what you are suggesting........... in other words, play on an unguaranteed contract for one year while turning down the largest contract ever given to a player at his position.

Using your logic......... why would Martin even attempt to sign a new deal this year at all? Why negotiate last year and then this yaer on a new deal? Just take the "guaranteed" $9MM and then figure out a new deal next year.

Why? Because he and his agents aren't as foolish as you.
 
AzorAhai

AzorAhai

Well-Known Member
Messages
6,511
Reaction score
8,901
Sydla said:
First, let's deal with the bolded part. My contract proposal isn't cheap. It would make him the highest paid OG in the NFL. So you look stupid arguing as if that type of contract would somehow be him taking less money. IT WOULD BE THE LARGEST OG CONTRACT IN NFL HISTORY. There would be leaving no money on the table here, so why you keep saying that is funny.

You are basically saying Martin would rather make $9MM this year (which isn't guaranteed mid you) than walk with say $25MM this year.
Click to expand...
tumblr_m3xoawosS91qi91rjo1_500.gif
 
nightrain

nightrain

Since 1971
Messages
14,527
Reaction score
24,375
In 2018 the Cowboys will need to add an upper tier WR or S from FA to keep up.
 
JustChip

JustChip

Well-Known Member
Messages
6,130
Reaction score
5,718
Hawkeye0202 said:
Think you just hit on the issue regard Hitchen......he and Jaylon both at MLB. We KNOW Jerry and Stephen are excited about Jaylon's 2018 season. We have not heard or seen anything to suggest he will move outside. So my guess as of today Jaylon has 2018 MLBer spot lockdown IMO. Hitch value comes in he can play ALL three position very well but can he start over Jaylon, Lewis or Lee. He lost snaps to Jaylon at the start of the season until they realize he wasn't ready. Then, of course, Jaylon was benched in favor of Hitch. So to be honest, we are not sure Hitch wanna come back. His position could very well be the same Brice Butler ( bless his soul lol), if he's not coming back it can't start. Can they guarantee him that? I'm not sure but I doubt they are willing to pay him starting $$$$ on the high end if they can't. This is why Stephen wouldn't give the commitment of his return during a recent interview. Only saying we want him back and going to do everything we can. No question IMO, he saying at the right price, which could totally from what he means to let's say Browns or Commanders. In fact, I'm guessing Hitchen situation could be one where both parties agree its best he move on.
Click to expand...

He lost snaps to Jaylon at the start of the season because he was on IR. Broke his leg in the last preseason game.
 
gjkoeppen

gjkoeppen

Well-Known Member
Messages
7,703
Reaction score
3,327
Sydla said:
He would not. You seriously do not have a clue how this all works.

For one, he's not guaranteed anything in 2018. The Cowboys could cut him today and get a full $9.3MM back on the cap.

The Cowboys could end up giving him even MORE MONEY this year than the $9.3MM if they paid him a substantial signing bonus for the new deal even with a smaller guaranteed first year salary.

Again, look at Kevin Zeitler's deal. In the first year, he was paid $18MM dollars cash. $6MM in salary and a $12MM signing bonus. He walked with $18MM in cash in year one. But for cap purposes, the Browns could spread the signing bonus out and guarantee other future salaries to lower the cap hit in year 1.

So no, Martin doesn't have to take less money for the Cowboys to have a fairly cap friendly deal in Year 1.
Click to expand...


If you really think that the Cowboys would cut Martin than you're even less of a capologist than I've already said you weren't. Martins option year is as guaranteed as much as if he had a signed contract because the Cowboys aren't going to sign him as as I already have said he'll be in such very high demand he won't be leaving money on the table. There is less than zero chance you will say anything that will convince me that your fantasy will happen. If it was as easy as you say the Cowboys would have done that the day after the season ended. A team can sign or extend any contract of one of their players before free agency starts so if it was just that easy and Martin like you think will leave that money on the table why hasn't an extension been signed?
.
 
gmoney112

gmoney112

Well-Known Member
Messages
11,589
Reaction score
15,694
gjkoeppen said:
Here's what the fans that are wannabe GM's or capologist don't know. Unlike them the teams have a pretty good idea of what exactly the cap number is for every year of the years in the TV contracts. That's something the wannabe's don't know so much of what a team does is predicated on KNOWING what they'll have to work with each year and in the future. With the recent trend the past couple of seasons, especially this season with the viewership down and if that continues it's doubtful the NFL will get the same revenue from the new TV contracts because of the viewership being down. Again if it was so easy to be a capologist why are any of the fans that want to be one haven't been swooped up by some team. Why, because it's a heck of a lot harder than the wannabe's think it is.
.
Click to expand...

It's not rocket gynecology.
 
aikemirv

aikemirv

Well-Known Member
Messages
16,211
Reaction score
9,713
Aven8 said:
Just saw our draft picks this year 3-4th's and 3-5th's. No way we do anything in FA IMO. Expect more bottom feeding.
Click to expand...

Two me the extra 4th and 5th are trade bait to move up in the 2nd and 3rd. I do realize that some are conditional and not tradeable.
 

Sydla

Well-Known Member
Messages
59,841
Reaction score
91,352
gjkoeppen said:
If you really think that the Cowboys would cut Martin than you're even less of a capologist than I've already said you weren't. Martins option year is as guaranteed as much as if he had a signed contract because the Cowboys aren't going to sign him as as I already have said he'll be in such very high demand he won't be leaving money on the table. There is less than zero chance you will say anything that will convince me that your fantasy will happen. If it was as easy as you say the Cowboys would have done that the day after the season ended. A team can sign or extend any contract of one of their players before free agency starts so if it was just that easy and Martin like you think will leave that money on the table why hasn't an extension been signed?
.
Click to expand...

Of course they wouldn't. But it's to highlight that his salary isn't guaranteed in 2018 despite your continual claims it is guaranteed. These are just facts, that you clearly struggle to understand.

In other words, sure, he could say to the Cowboys, you know what, I am going to play on my option year and then go to FA. And then a month from now, he blows out a knee or gets in a car accident that threatens his career. Then guess what? The Cowboys could cut him and not have to pay him a cent more and he likely would be out millions and millions of dollars.

Or essentially he could trade $9MM in non-guarantees for $30MM+ in guarantees right now, which just about every player would do. Again, why would Martin even negotiate an new deal right now? Just do what you say. Play for $9MM this year and then go get your big deal next year.
 
Bullflop

Bullflop

Cowboys Diehard
Messages
24,591
Reaction score
29,946
Aven8 said:
Just saw our draft picks this year 3-4th's and 3-5th's. No way we do anything in FA IMO. Expect more bottom feeding.
Click to expand...

With three 4th and three 5th round picks in the next draft, I'm hoping there's a few coming out of that, alone, to be useful if we play our cards right. ;)

I wouldn't doubt at all that there'll be the usual bottom feeding taking place in veteran free agency, however. That's been our calling card all along.

Granted, it'd be nice if Jerry and Stephen were to see fit to break out of their usual habit to acquire someone significantly useful but it's a lot to ask.
 
Last edited:

Sydla

Well-Known Member
Messages
59,841
Reaction score
91,352
gjkoeppen said:
If you really think that the Cowboys would cut Martin than you're even less of a capologist than I've already said you weren't. Martins option year is as guaranteed as much as if he had a signed contract because the Cowboys aren't going to sign him as as I already have said he'll be in such very high demand he won't be leaving money on the table. There is less than zero chance you will say anything that will convince me that your fantasy will happen. If it was as easy as you say the Cowboys would have done that the day after the season ended. A team can sign or extend any contract of one of their players before free agency starts so if it was just that easy and Martin like you think will leave that money on the table why hasn't an extension been signed?
.
Click to expand...

Let's get back to the real point here.

If the Cowboys sign Martin to an extension, it will have a limited effect on available cap space this year. At worse, it will use maybe an additional million or two in our available cap space, at best, it will actually save a million or so.
 
AzorAhai

AzorAhai

Well-Known Member
Messages
6,511
Reaction score
8,901
gmoney112 said:
It's not rocket gynecology.
Click to expand...

I wonder what it feels like to be that dense. Do you know that you are? Can you feel it in your bones? Do you feel an instinctual fear of water? These are the questions we need answered.
 
gjkoeppen

gjkoeppen

Well-Known Member
Messages
7,703
Reaction score
3,327
Hawkeye0202 said:
Think you just hit on the issue regard Hitchen......he and Jaylon both at MLB. We KNOW Jerry and Stephen are excited about Jaylon's 2018 season. We have not heard or seen anything to suggest he will move outside. So my guess as of today Jaylon has 2018 MLBer spot lockdown IMO. Hitch value comes in he can play ALL three position very well but can he start over Jaylon, Lewis or Lee. He lost snaps to Jaylon at the start of the season until they realize he wasn't ready. Then, of course, Jaylon was benched in favor of Hitch. So to be honest, we are not sure Hitch wanna come back. His position could very well be the same Brice Butler ( bless his soul lol), if he's not coming back it can't start. Can they guarantee him that? I'm not sure but I doubt they are willing to pay him starting $$$$ on the high end if they can't. This is why Stephen wouldn't give the commitment of his return during a recent interview. Only saying we want him back and going to do everything we can. No question IMO, he saying at the right price, which could totally from what he means to let's say Browns or Commanders. In fact, I'm guessing Hitchen situation could be one where both parties agree its best he move on.
Click to expand...


I've heard nothing from the Cowboys, fans yes but they don't count, that gimpy has the MLB spot all locked up for 2018. If Hitchens was in their plans as a starter the Cowboys would have him as one of their priorities to resign. Gimpy had a small handful of good plays in 2017 and a lot of plays where he was out of position, trailing who he was covering by a couple of steps, late getting to the ball carrier until he was 4-7 yards down field. Basing every thing he did in 2017 I seriously doubt any of the coaches have him penciled in as the starting MLB. He may end up there if the Cowboys aren't able to resign Hitchens but if he is resigned I'll bet he will be the starting MLB.
.
 

Sydla

Well-Known Member
Messages
59,841
Reaction score
91,352
AzorAhai said:
I wonder what it feels like to be that dense. Do you know that you are? Can you feel it in your bones? Do you feel a instinctual fear of water? These are the questions we need answered.
Click to expand...

Sometimes, I wonder what these people are like in real life. Is it an act on an internet message board? Or do you walk through life being this dense and obtuse?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top