Dak haters face facts and take a beating

DFWJC · Jan 20, 2018

diefree666 said:
wow when you decide to be oblivious to reality you do go all in

Dre11 · Jan 20, 2018

CowboyRoy said:
His stats in his ONLY playoff game his rookie year:

302 passing yards, 3 TD's and 1 pick.

If your conclusion by looking at his numbers is that he cant win games for us then you might as well just go hide under a rock.

That and they said the coaching staff doesn't adjust, yet the came back from a 21 point deficit in that playoff game.

percyhoward · Jan 20, 2018

LatinMind said:
Why don't you put up Romo's numbers when he was pressured?

PFF only has this information for 2016 and 2017. But here's a sample of some other QB in 2017, for comparison's sake, with their passer rating in the games with an "unusually high" amount of pressures (40% +) and the games with a "low-to-slightly-above-average" amount of pressures (less than 40%).

In 70% of games league-wide, the QB is pressured on less than 40% of his dropbacks. In parentheses is the number of games that made up that rating sample.

Rivers 102.9 (8) / 89.1 (8)
Wentz 102.2 (4) / 101.7 (9)
Brady 98.2 (4) / 104.3 (12)
Keenum 93.8 (7) / 102.4 (8)
Smith 91.2 (3) / 108.2 (12)
Wilson 88.7 (11) / 98.4 (5)
Stafford 88.3 (3) / 101.7 (13)
Cousins 86.5 (4) / 97.0 (12)
Bortles 84.8 (4) / 84.7 (12)
Mariota 66.8 (1) / 81.1 (14)
Brees NR (0) / 103.9 (16)
ALL 90.3 (49) / 97.5 (121)

Prescott 66.1 (8) / 109.3 (8)

Note that Dak has both the worst and best passer rating in this sample of QB.

Zman5 · Jan 20, 2018

jwooten15 said:
I shot a 34 on the front nine in my round of golf today.

Second nine I accidentally broke my driver and shot a 50.

Oh, but I'll ignore what I ACTUALLY shot, and just give myself an excuse to dismiss the back nine. I'll double my front nine score instead. Nice, I shot a 68!

No. Just no.

Good quarterbacks don't need everything perfect to be effective. Your argument is beyond flawed.

I usually shoot a better score when I don't use my driver.

tyke1doe · Jan 20, 2018

ScipioCowboy said:
In reply to number two, in fairness, Aikman didn’t really elevate either.

But Aikman was deadly accurate.

Cowpolk · Jan 20, 2018

CowboyRoy said:
Lets just deal in facts so that we look at reality and not Romo cry baby fantasy:

These were the Daks stats in 2016 his rookie year. Not only did he win rookie of the year, but it was the 2nd best QB rookie season in NFL history. In short, its about as good as it ever gets for a QB:

2016: 3667 passing yards, 23 TD's and 4 picks, 68 % completion percentage and 104.9 QBR
282 yards rushing and 6 rushing TD's

Totally and completely off the charts.

2017 first 8 games of the season before Zeke suspension and Tyrone Smith injury:

2017: 1818 passing yards, 16 TD's and 5 picks, 102.85 QBR
195 rushing yards and 4 rushing TD's

If you double those totals for the first 8 games he was on pace for these numbers:
2017: 3636 passing yards, 32 TD's, 8 picks
390 rushing yards and 8 rushing TD's, 102.85 QBR

Those stats are almost identical, and you could argue even better than his rookie year. Passing TD's are on pace for 32 instead of 23. Rushing yards and TD's going up also. So he was on pace for improvement his 2nd year.

We all know what happened the last 8 games. Now can any of the Dak haters think of anything that changed starting with the Atlanta game that might have made a major impact on Dak's ability to do his job properly?

So when the facts are shown above they speak of a much different story then the one being told by the Romo cry babies. Dak is one hell of a QB and is all the way a franchise QB. Sure back up the Oline and Zeke will be back and there should be no reason why he isnt right back to continuing to improve.

Romo is better than Dak and he can throw the ball .1 yard further

ScipioCowboy · Jan 20, 2018

tyke1doe said:
But Aikman was deadly accurate.

This is true. I often forget how accurate until I stumble upon on an old clip. Night and day with Dak.

DakBringMeBack · Jan 20, 2018

Dude is a superstar. We are lucky to have him. He's one of the things keeping me invested in the NFL right now, given the state of our Cowboys and the sorry league.

He's a superstar - as you see on the endorsements. They don't let Case Keenum do those for a reason.

Zman5 · Jan 20, 2018

percyhoward said:
PFF only has this information for 2016 and 2017. But here's a sample of some other QB in 2017, for comparison's sake, with their passer rating in the games with an "unusually high" amount of pressures (40% +) and the games with a "low-to-slightly-above-average" amount of pressures (less than 40%).

In 70% of games league-wide, the QB is pressured on less than 40% of his dropbacks. In parentheses is the number of games that made up that rating sample.

Rivers 102.9 (8) / 89.1 (8)
Wentz 102.2 (4) / 101.7 (9)
Brady 98.2 (4) / 104.3 (12)
Keenum 93.8 (7) / 102.4 (8)
Smith 91.2 (3) / 108.2 (12)
Wilson 88.7 (11) / 98.4 (5)
Stafford 88.3 (3) / 101.7 (13)
Cousins 86.5 (4) / 97.0 (12)
Bortles 84.8 (4) / 84.7 (12)
Mariota 66.8 (1) / 81.1 (14)
Brees NR (0) / 103.9 (16)
ALL 90.3 (49) / 97.5 (121)

Prescott 66.1 (8) / 109.3 (8)

Note that Dak has both the worst and best passer rating in this sample of QB.

It's interesting that Mariota and Prescott did the worst against pressure and both offenses run similar schemes. They are also zone blocking run first offense with a QB that can run, much like us. Titan's OC, Robiski used to be Norv's WR coach.

Also, Titans and the Cowboys probably have the worst group of of receivers(WR/TE) on that list.

Toruk_Makto · Jan 20, 2018

So Our QB just needs perfect health from our RB and LT to put up a 32 TD passing season. And this is assuming we just give him prorated stats just cuz.

LatinMind · Jan 21, 2018

ScipioCowboy said:
Do we have to focus on that?

wasnt it said by aikman himsel

percyhoward said:
PFF only has this information for 2016 and 2017. But here's a sample of some other QB in 2017, for comparison's sake, with their passer rating in the games with an "unusually high" amount of pressures (40% +) and the games with a "low-to-slightly-above-average" amount of pressures (less than 40%).

In 70% of games league-wide, the QB is pressured on less than 40% of his dropbacks. In parentheses is the number of games that made up that rating sample.

Rivers 102.9 (8) / 89.1 (8)
Wentz 102.2 (4) / 101.7 (9)
Brady 98.2 (4) / 104.3 (12)
Keenum 93.8 (7) / 102.4 (8)
Smith 91.2 (3) / 108.2 (12)
Wilson 88.7 (11) / 98.4 (5)
Stafford 88.3 (3) / 101.7 (13)
Cousins 86.5 (4) / 97.0 (12)
Bortles 84.8 (4) / 84.7 (12)
Mariota 66.8 (1) / 81.1 (14)
Brees NR (0) / 103.9 (16)
ALL 90.3 (49) / 97.5 (121)

Prescott 66.1 (8) / 109.3 (8)

Note that Dak has both the worst and best passer rating in this sample of QB.

I think this actually proves that Dak really isnt the problem but its the offense.You look at the pressure stats and look at the top guys there and its them dink and dunk offenses or spread offenses with the most success. Their offense revolves around them 1,2 step drops and get rid of the ball. So in essence ur playing right to their game, because ur leaving ur back end unprepared for 2 to 3 hot reads. While Dallas runs a pro set and runs longer routes and relys on Wittens ability to get open for that emergency route. When thats taken away you get that 66.1 rating. When Dak has a clean pocket the offense is able to run its course and theres your top rating in the league. This is the problem with fans and PFF ratings, they take something and run with it to try and hammer their point but there are too many other variables to pin point certain numbers.

No doubt Dak needs to work on his game. Its not his accuracy that needs work but better use of his feet. He needs to learn to set them and then release. But to say Dak is the problem by fans on this forum is crazy. Dallas needs better route running by the WRs they got now or ones brought in, and they def need to start running better routes that dont take so long to develop. They need to run Dez(if he is still in Dallas) on shorter routes that can use his size to move the chains instead of just trying to go deep where as its been shown time and time again he isnt winning anymore. Running him on them rub routes Dallas runs with Beasley IMO would be a killer for opposing teams.

Captain43Crash · Jan 21, 2018

Galian Beast said:
He had no production in the first half which allowed Green Bay to play very comfortably. They opened things up in the second half and that is where his numbers come from.

What a dishonest analysis! If Garrett doesn’t call for the idiotic spike on first down with 1:50 to play there is a very good chance Dak continues to move the ball down the field and scores the game winning TD, or at least takes more time off the clock before kicking the game tieing FG. Good chance that game at least goes into OT, if Garrett doesn’t call for the idiotic spike. Overall Dak played an excellent game. Take off your Romo colored glasses and try to be honest about Dak’s 1st playoff performance.

Coy · Jan 21, 2018

jwooten15 said:
I shot a 34 on the front nine in my round of golf today.

Second nine I accidentally broke my driver and shot a 50.

Oh, but I'll ignore what I ACTUALLY shot, and just give myself an excuse to dismiss the back nine. I'll double my front nine score instead. Nice, I shot a 68!

No. Just no.

Good quarterbacks don't need everything perfect to be effective. Your argument is beyond flawed.

Great Post :clap:

Beast_from_East · Jan 21, 2018

CowboyRoy said:
Lets just deal in facts so that we look at reality and not Romo cry baby fantasy:

These were the Daks stats in 2016 his rookie year. Not only did he win rookie of the year, but it was the 2nd best QB rookie season in NFL history. In short, its about as good as it ever gets for a QB:

2016: 3667 passing yards, 23 TD's and 4 picks, 68 % completion percentage and 104.9 QBR
282 yards rushing and 6 rushing TD's

Totally and completely off the charts.

2017 first 8 games of the season before Zeke suspension and Tyrone Smith injury:

2017: 1818 passing yards, 16 TD's and 5 picks, 102.85 QBR
195 rushing yards and 4 rushing TD's

If you double those totals for the first 8 games he was on pace for these numbers:
2017: 3636 passing yards, 32 TD's, 8 picks
390 rushing yards and 8 rushing TD's, 102.85 QBR

Those stats are almost identical, and you could argue even better than his rookie year. Passing TD's are on pace for 32 instead of 23. Rushing yards and TD's going up also. So he was on pace for improvement his 2nd year.

We all know what happened the last 8 games. Now can any of the Dak haters think of anything that changed starting with the Atlanta game that might have made a major impact on Dak's ability to do his job properly?

So when the facts are shown above they speak of a much different story then the one being told by the Romo cry babies. Dak is one hell of a QB and is all the way a franchise QB. Sure back up the Oline and Zeke will be back and there should be no reason why he isnt right back to continuing to improve.

I hope you are right................Life in the NFL is not very pretty if you don't have a franchise QB

Beast_from_East · Jan 21, 2018

percyhoward said:
I don't think there was nearly the difference between the 2016 Dak and the 2017 version that those numbers show. Big difference in the conditions under which he was operating, but only slight differences in the way he responded to them.

when pressured on ≥ 40% of dropbacks in game
2016 (3 games)
48 of 94 (51%) 591 yd (6.3 ypa) 4 td 3 int 71.7
2017 (8 games)
161 of 257 (63%) 1526 yd (5.9 ypa) 5 td 12 int 66.1

when pressured on < 40% of dropbacks in game
2016 (14 games)
287 of 403 (71%) 3378 yd (8.4 ypa) 22 td 2 int 112.5
2017 (8 games)
147 of 233 (63%) 1798 yd (7.7 ypa) 17 td 1 int 109.3

Excellent post Percy....................several things are very noticeable

1. Dak played similar to his rookie year, so the idea that he somehow regressed is proving to be false
2. These numbers show that even in his rookie year, if you pressure Dak he gets rattled and his rating plummets
3. So what changed from last year to this year that caused such a drop in his rating from over 100 to the 80s?.......more pressure

So Dak was pressured on more than 40% of his drop backs in 8 games instead of 3 and his QB rating was very similar, 71 vs 66 between his rookie year and this year, when facing heavy pressure. This is not something that changed, this is how Dak plays against heavy pressure.

This is not a good sign, it means that Dak cant handle pressure and plays poorly against it, with almost identical ratings from his rookie year to this year. The difference was instead of 3 games of heavy pressure, he faced 8 games of heavy pressure. Now every team we play is going to bring pressure because they see these stats as well. If Dak is not pressured, his rating is 112 vs 109 last year to this year, almost the same.

Mind_Liberator · Jan 21, 2018

Watching the games is all I need to tell that Dak is no good. What good is a Qb that isn't accurate and doesn't see the field all that well?

Beast_from_East · Jan 21, 2018

LatinMind said:
wasnt it said by aikman himsel

I think this actually proves that Dak really isnt the problem but its the offense.You look at the pressure stats and look at the top guys there and its them dink and dunk offenses or spread offenses with the most success. Their offense revolves around them 1,2 step drops and get rid of the ball. So in essence ur playing right to their game, because ur leaving ur back end unprepared for 2 to 3 hot reads. While Dallas runs a pro set and runs longer routes and relys on Wittens ability to get open for that emergency route. When thats taken away you get that 66.1 rating. When Dak has a clean pocket the offense is able to run its course and theres your top rating in the league. This is the problem with fans and PFF ratings, they take something and run with it to try and hammer their point but there are too many other variables to pin point certain numbers.

No doubt Dak needs to work on his game. Its not his accuracy that needs work but better use of his feet. He needs to learn to set them and then release. But to say Dak is the problem by fans on this forum is crazy. Dallas needs better route running by the WRs they got now or ones brought in, and they def need to start running better routes that dont take so long to develop. They need to run Dez(if he is still in Dallas) on shorter routes that can use his size to move the chains instead of just trying to go deep where as its been shown time and time again he isnt winning anymore. Running him on them rub routes Dallas runs with Beasley IMO would be a killer for opposing teams.

Exactly...............why cant there be more logical discussions like this instead of Dak the greatest/Romo sucks responses

The numbers show that Dak is the worst QB against pressure and that his ratings vs pressure is actually pretty consistent between his rookie year and this year. Thus, the idea that he regressed is wrong, it appears he is playing at the same level that he did his rookie year. So what is different? He faced way more pressure this year than his rookie year. Maybe this was because of no Zeke, maybe this was because of Tyron being out, or maybe teams starting noticing these numbers themselves and realized that Dak is not too good against heavy pressure.

So the question becomes, not that Dak sucks and lets get rid of him, but why is Dak preforming so bad under pressure? Like this excellent post, lets look at other QBs around the league and the type of offenses they run and then lets look at Dallas and see the type of offense they run. To no surprise, the top QBs against pressure all play in a similar offense and the worst QBs against pressure all play in a similar offense. This is not really rocket science stuff here.

So the take home message is that it is the type of offense that struggles against heavy pressure and not individual QBs and by changing the offensive scheme we can improve Dak's performance against heavy pressure. Hint.........maybe coaching/scheme is the problem like I have been saying for years.

Parcells4Life · Jan 21, 2018

Use the eye test. I don’t subscribe to the theory after WATCHING the games that even during the first 8 this season that Dak was all worldly.

Go back and watch the tape vs NYG, Denver, StL and Green Bay. He missed many many many open receivers. The difference was in the second half vs Green Bay the run game finally got going and then they played 3 sorry teams in SF, Wash and KC who was in the middle of their 6 game funk. KC even lost the next week to the Giants.

And due to the rain he didn’t have a great day in Washington. If it wasn’t for Scandricks play in the first half they may have lost that.

The best game I’ve seen him play in his career was KC based off accuracy and playmaking. Don’t need the stats to know what the eyes see.

He is a mobile game manager which means if there’s no injuries or suspensions he won’t screw it up. He’s not accurate and wasn’t accurate even this year. He only throws to WRs when they’re wide open and even then they often have to adjust to the ball.

His numbers are very skewed and teams know that. He can’t throw the deep ball well consistently so he just doesn’t throw it. For every dime we see to Dez vs Oak there’s the Hail Marys that ended up 5 yards out of bounds.

Point is:

If he would use his legs more he’d be more of a threat. I don’t consider Roethlisberger a pin point passer like Aikman. He’s a playmaker that uses his traits. Dak however wants to play like Aikman which is all Garrett and Linehan know how to coach. As we saw last week Roethlisberger is backyard baller. It’s not pretty watching him mechanically but results don’t lie.

Dak needs to play that game and stop trying to be Aikman or Romo because he doesn’t have the same arm talent.

T-RO · Jan 21, 2018

Alexander said:
Four pick sixes this past year.

Isn't that some kind of record?

How many of those clanged off a receiver's hands?

noshame · Jan 21, 2018

Although I still wait for three years to evaluate a player, especially quarterback.
You got to put a system in that fits Dak and I believe he will lead this team to a Super Bowl

Scott are you listening? Give him an offense that fits his skill set and you'll be a head coach again before you know it

somewhere

Dak haters face facts and take a beating

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