Can we all agree QB play Makes WRS

birdwells1

birdwells1

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I was just looking at wide outs stats for the 2017 season, when I say wide outs I'm not including slot wrs.

1. Jarvis Landry 112 987 SLOT
2. Fitz 109 1156 SLOT
3. Michael Thomas 104 1245 wide out Drew Brees
4. Keenan Allen 102 1393 wide out Phillip Rivers
5. Antonio Brown 101 1533 wide out Big Ben
6. DeAndre Hop 96 1378 wide out Bad QBing after Watson, outstanding stats
7. Golden Tate 92 1003 SLOT
8. Theilen 91 1276 wide out Case Keenum great year
9. Julio 88 1444 wide out Matt Ryan

11. D. Thomas 83 949 wide out Bad QBing lots of catches no yardage
16. D. Baldwin 75 991 SLOT
16. AJ Green 75 1078 wide out Better than Dez mediocre to poor QBing
16. Tyreek Hill 75 1183 SLOT

23. Mike Evans 71 1001 wide out Bad QBing, better than Dez, better than stats
24. Dez Bryant 69 838 wide out Bad QBing, from inexperienced qb.


FACTS:

1. Dez had a bad year with the drops
2. Dak is not comfortabe throwing to his outside receivers yet.
3. Dez still demands double coverage or safety help, contrary to what some say on this site.
4. Dez had 1 fumble last year. (contrary to the "always fumbling crowd").
5. Dak had trouble reading defenses last year. i.e. wr settling in a zone while he's throwing it like wr is in man .

OPINION:

4. The top wide outs on this list all have good to great qb play, with exception of Hopkins (bad), AJ, and Evans (mediocre) whom everyone agrees are better than Dez but their QB play is also better or at least equal to Dak.
5. If the QB play is going to be like it was this year then we can't pay Dez 16mil because he's not going to be worth it. Does that say more about Dez or Dak though?
6. The coaching staff is the biggest culprit in all this because they didn't have a plan B for Dak, they just came back and tried to do what they did last year and when defenses took away what he likes to do, JG and staff had no answers.
7. T.O. said it, Bryce Butler said it, Dez said it, this offense does not put it's player in a position to succeed. Look at the Patriots and Eagles last weekend. Pick pays pick plays pick plays, crossing routes their schemes won those games our scheme looses games.

NEXT SEASON:

We need new a scheme or new plays, pick routes, rub routes, crossing routes and attempt to attack deep.

Dez needs to be focused (if he's still here).

Dak doesn't need to go back to his rookie year form, he needs to be better. That rookie year is gone, he's not going to sneak up on anyone, he's going to have to put on his big boy pants and throw into NFL windows.
 
CATCH17

CATCH17

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khiladi said:
We are tied to this offense because of Garrett. Another reason why hiring him was one of the worst decisions, if not worst decision, in franchise history..
Click to expand...

It was time to move on this offseason and we just put ourselves a year behind schedule because of his contract.

He's got the locker room questioning him, the fan base is questioning him, and i'm sure behind closed doors the Jones's are questioning him.
 
khiladi

khiladi

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I saw the ‘pre-draft’ room of Garrett taking with Jerry, in his ‘get consensus’ mode discussing Dak. Garrett was basically giving typical coach speech that Dak would provide a wrinkle in the offense as a read option threat in certain situations.

And then they decided after one year he could be the perfect QB in this deep-threat offense and Garrett found it as an opportunity to sabotage Romo. No pre-draft scouting report said Dak threw well in tight windows or that there weren’t questions in his anticipating routes. This whole offense is timing-based, meaning it’s driven precisely by anticipating your WRs routes.

OK, you think Dak can be a QB for you, but all of this predicates tailoring the whole offense to his skill-set, and they didn’t draft him for that. And yet here we are with the Red-Headed Clapper and the FO, Stephen included, totally destroying our SB window trying to fit a QB on an offense with personnel and play-calling that doesn’t match his skill-set ideally. We are back to, “well, we need to plug in this player” mode.. there was nothing in practice that indicated Dak was a QB in this offense and the excise was that he ‘doesn’t practice well’.

They used to talk about ‘culture’ during the Wade days as an excuse to hire Garrett, but Garrett is the biggest tool in the shed. He can’t deal with strone personslityes and he throws blame on others to hide his incompetence. Not only was Garrett’s ‘genius’ as an offensive mind exposed starting the end of 2007 when the passing offense was stalling, even this myth of him bringing accountability and a strong culture has been proven to be a joke. He was awful on pre-game planning, didn’t even have Romo in those meetings and he was awful on game-day.. now players are coming out and saying any success was basically Romo lining players up and calling plays.

Back during the Wade era, Garrett homers were quick to jump on the ‘stories’ to push an anti-Wade agenda against Garrett, but now these stories are fake and about disgruntled players. You think people are gonna talk trash about the bosses daughter while working for him?
 
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G2

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I get Dak was struggling but he also played very well in games this last season. It just depends on your narrative. It's also true the passing game in general wasn't as productive as it has been in the past but you also have to consider the differences. We were missing Elliott and Smith. The 2 best players on the offense. The right tackle was getting acclimated and also played with injuries. The LG was par at best. And the coaching did a horrible job adjusting to these changes and DID NOT put this offense in the best possible position game after game. Example: When you finally have the best RB in the NFL back and playing well why the hell would you pass play after play inside the 5 on 1st and goal? I don't care if it was a run-option called, you put a run play in and run the damn ball in! Coaching failed us more than anything IMO.

Now Dez. He's an 8 year vet who at times played at a very high level. How long does it take to get you crap together? Yeah, he only fumbled once, but that is no excuse for holding the ball like a loaf of bread. That gave them a TD. He runs lazy routes. His routes are limited. If the play isn't to him he halfasses it. When a play breaks down and players are scrambling to get open, Dez just stands there like the whistle was blown.

You can blame Dak all you want and part of it was him. But this is the pouty Dez we've always had, nothing has changed and he's no leader. Part of that is on him and the other id the coaching for putting up with that crap in the 1st place.
And on top of all that he hasn't performed well enough after he signed the contract.
 
khiladi

khiladi

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birdwells1 said:
Is the worst decision hiring him or not firing him?
Click to expand...

It’s like judging which poop is better on the smell.

The hiring was awful, looking back, because it was part of a plan to make him HC, so any change to the organization by Wade to improve this team was squashed to protect the Garrett investment.

At first I didn’t have any problems with not, because nobody really has any clue to Jerry’s long-term plan. But year 2 I was done, when Wade was taking the blame for Garrett’s incompetence.
 
birdwells1

birdwells1

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Streetwise said:
I get Dak was struggling but he also played very well in games this last season. It just depends on your narrative. It's also true the passing game in general wasn't as productive as it has been in the past but you also have to consider the differences. We were missing Elliott and Smith. The 2 best players on the offense. The right tackle was getting acclimated and also played with injuries. The LG was par at best. And the coaching did a horrible job adjusting to these changes and DID NOT put this offense in the best possible position game after game. Example: When you finally have the best RB in the NFL back and playing well why the hell would you pass play after play inside the 5 on 1st and goal? I don't care if it was a run-option called, you put a run play in and run the damn ball in! Coaching failed us more than anything IMO.

Now Dez. He's an 8 year vet who at times played at a very high level. How long does it take to get you crap together? Yeah, he only fumbled once, but that is no excuse for holding the ball like a loaf of bread. That gave them a TD. He runs lazy routes. His routes are limited. If the play isn't to him he halfasses it. When a play breaks down and players are scrambling to get open, Dez just stands there like the whistle was blown.

You can blame Dak all you want and part of it was him. But this is the pouty Dez we've always had, nothing has changed and he's no leader. Part of that is on him and the other id the coaching for putting up with that crap in the 1st place.
And on top of all that he hasn't performed well enough after he signed the contract.
Click to expand...

Dez's qbs since signing contract:

Weeden
Cassell
Moore
Prescott

None of these qbs are high level passers of the ball, what do you expect from the receivers.

All wrs numbers suffered this season, what? They fell off also?
 
khiladi

khiladi

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Streetwise said:
I get Dak was struggling but he also played very well in games this last season. It just depends on your narrative. It's also true the passing game in general wasn't as productive as it has been in the past but you also have to consider the differences. We were missing Elliott and Smith. The 2 best players on the offense. The right tackle was getting acclimated and also played with injuries. The LG was par at best. And the coaching did a horrible job adjusting to these changes and DID NOT put this offense in the best possible position game after game. Example: When you finally have the best RB in the NFL back and playing well why the hell would you pass play after play inside the 5 on 1st and goal? I don't care if it was a run-option called, you put a run play in and run the damn ball in! Coaching failed us more than anything IMO.

Now Dez. He's an 8 year vet who at times played at a very high level. How long does it take to get you crap together? Yeah, he only fumbled once, but that is no excuse for holding the ball like a loaf of bread. That gave them a TD. He runs lazy routes. His routes are limited. If the play isn't to him he halfasses it. When a play breaks down and players are scrambling to get open, Dez just stands there like the whistle was blown.

You can blame Dak all you want and part of it was him. But this is the pouty Dez we've always had, nothing has changed and he's no leader. Part of that is on him and the other id the coaching for putting up with that crap in the 1st place.
And on top of all that he hasn't performed well enough after he signed the contract.
Click to expand...

So the excuse did Dak is we lost two of our best players on offense, but that excuse doesn’t apply to Dez.. ok got it..

When the QB has the option to run, based on fronts, and the QB is wrong, it’s then the coaches fault for giving an NFL QB some more responsibility to grow and make the right decision.

OK, got it..

Everybody but Dak..

Did Dak make the decision to start himself or did the coaches you blame for Dak’s poor performances..

Dak was trash last year for a large majority of the season and his best performance was against garbage defense imploding like the Giants, when in the 4th quarter his receivers gained like 90% of Dak’s yardage on a busted play to Smith that better 80 yards on a run and Beasley running for like 50 yards on a simple checkdown pass while Dak couldn’t do jack for over three quarters.
 

cowboy_ron

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birdwells1 said:
I was just looking at wide outs stats for the 2017 season, when I say wide outs I'm not including slot wrs.

1. Jarvis Landry 112 987 SLOT
2. Fitz 109 1156 SLOT
3. Michael Thomas 104 1245 wide out Drew Brees
4. Keenan Allen 102 1393 wide out Phillip Rivers
5. Antonio Brown 101 1533 wide out Big Ben
6. DeAndre Hop 96 1378 wide out Bad QBing after Watson, outstanding stats
7. Golden Tate 92 1003 SLOT
8. Theilen 91 1276 wide out Case Keenum great year
9. Julio 88 1444 wide out Matt Ryan

11. D. Thomas 83 949 wide out Bad QBing lots of catches no yardage
16. D. Baldwin 75 991 SLOT
16. AJ Green 75 1078 wide out Better than Dez mediocre to poor QBing
16. Tyreek Hill 75 1183 SLOT

23. Mike Evans 71 1001 wide out Bad QBing, better than Dez, better than stats
24. Dez Bryant 69 838 wide out Bad QBing, from inexperienced qb.


FACTS:

1. Dez had a bad year with the drops
2. Dak is not comfortabe throwing to his outside receivers yet.
3. Dez still demands double coverage or safety help, contrary to what some say on this site.
4. Dez had 1 fumble last year. (contrary to the "always fumbling crowd").
5. Dak had trouble reading defenses last year. i.e. wr settling in a zone while he's throwing it like wr is in man .

OPINION:

4. The top wide outs on this list all have good to great qb play, with exception of Hopkins (bad), AJ, and Evans (mediocre) whom everyone agrees are better than Dez but their QB play is also better or at least equal to Dak.
5. If the QB play is going to be like it was this year then we can't pay Dez 16mil because he's not going to be worth it. Does that say more about Dez or Dak though?
6. The coaching staff is the biggest culprit in all this because they didn't have a plan B for Dak, they just came back and tried to do what they did last year and when defenses took away what he likes to do, JG and staff had no answers.
7. T.O. said it, Bryce Butler said it, Dez said it, this offense does not put it's player in a position to succeed. Look at the Patriots and Eagles last weekend. Pick pays pick plays pick plays, crossing routes their schemes won those games our scheme looses games.

NEXT SEASON:

We need new a scheme or new plays, pick routes, rub routes, crossing routes and attempt to attack deep.

Dez needs to be focused (if he's still here).

Dak doesn't need to go back to his rookie year form, he needs to be better. That rookie year is gone, he's not going to sneak up on anyone, he's going to have to put on his big boy pants and throw into NFL windows.
Click to expand...
Here's another to add to the "facts" category........Dez doesn't consistently give a 100%.
 
birdwells1

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Jake said:
Can we all agree a WR shouldn't be taking up 10% of your cap space?
Click to expand...

If you have Big Ben, Rivers, Brees, or Romo throwing the ball it should.

I agree a wr should not take up 10% of your cap space. With Dak at qb, as I said in the op.
 
Bleu Star

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birdwells1 said:
I was just looking at wide outs stats for the 2017 season, when I say wide outs I'm not including slot wrs.

1. Jarvis Landry 112 987 SLOT
2. Fitz 109 1156 SLOT
3. Michael Thomas 104 1245 wide out Drew Brees
4. Keenan Allen 102 1393 wide out Phillip Rivers
5. Antonio Brown 101 1533 wide out Big Ben
6. DeAndre Hop 96 1378 wide out Bad QBing after Watson, outstanding stats
7. Golden Tate 92 1003 SLOT
8. Theilen 91 1276 wide out Case Keenum great year
9. Julio 88 1444 wide out Matt Ryan

11. D. Thomas 83 949 wide out Bad QBing lots of catches no yardage
16. D. Baldwin 75 991 SLOT
16. AJ Green 75 1078 wide out Better than Dez mediocre to poor QBing
16. Tyreek Hill 75 1183 SLOT

23. Mike Evans 71 1001 wide out Bad QBing, better than Dez, better than stats
24. Dez Bryant 69 838 wide out Bad QBing, from inexperienced qb.


FACTS:

1. Dez had a bad year with the drops
2. Dak is not comfortabe throwing to his outside receivers yet.
3. Dez still demands double coverage or safety help, contrary to what some say on this site.
4. Dez had 1 fumble last year. (contrary to the "always fumbling crowd").
5. Dak had trouble reading defenses last year. i.e. wr settling in a zone while he's throwing it like wr is in man .

OPINION:

4. The top wide outs on this list all have good to great qb play, with exception of Hopkins (bad), AJ, and Evans (mediocre) whom everyone agrees are better than Dez but their QB play is also better or at least equal to Dak.
5. If the QB play is going to be like it was this year then we can't pay Dez 16mil because he's not going to be worth it. Does that say more about Dez or Dak though?
6. The coaching staff is the biggest culprit in all this because they didn't have a plan B for Dak, they just came back and tried to do what they did last year and when defenses took away what he likes to do, JG and staff had no answers.
7. T.O. said it, Bryce Butler said it, Dez said it, this offense does not put it's player in a position to succeed. Look at the Patriots and Eagles last weekend. Pick pays pick plays pick plays, crossing routes their schemes won those games our scheme looses games.

NEXT SEASON:

We need new a scheme or new plays, pick routes, rub routes, crossing routes and attempt to attack deep.

Dez needs to be focused (if he's still here).

Dak doesn't need to go back to his rookie year form, he needs to be better. That rookie year is gone, he's not going to sneak up on anyone, he's going to have to put on his big boy pants and throw into NFL windows.
Click to expand...
You had to start another thread.... Lovely.

To answer your question... WRs make WRs. Be an accountable leader or go play elsewhere. Bye Dez.
 
Alexander

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Jake said:
Can we all agree a WR shouldn't be taking up 10% of your cap space?
Click to expand...
If they are, they should be Antonio Brown-productive.

I don't get how people can assume that it is all on the QB to make the WR. Unless you have an elite level QB and most teams don't, you will need a talent offset at WR. Bryant is not well rounded enough or, if you choose, used correctly, to provide that offset.
 
Aviano90

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birdwells1 said:
Dez's qbs since signing contract:

Weeden
Cassell
Moore
Prescott

None of these qbs are high level passers of the ball, what do you expect from the receivers.

All wrs numbers suffered this season, what? They fell off also?
Click to expand...

Romo was also his QB for a brief period of time in 2015. During which the following occurred:

  • Dez dropped a wide open pass on 3rd down which would have set up 1st and goal in week 1 against the Giants.
  • Dez ran the wrong route against Miami in the red zone causing an interception.
  • Dez dropped a TD pass against Carolina early in the game before the game got out of hand.
  • Dez argued with Josh Norman instead of running back and possibly preventing a pick 6 when the ball was returned back to his side of the field.

While the QB has a part in Dez's lack of production, Dez's own mistakes also play a part in his decline. Those mistakes have increased since 2014, even when Romo was under center. 4 mistakes in the very short amount of time those 2 played together is too many.
 
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Since you started another thread... I'll copy paste my thoughts here on your boy Dez.

  • Our offense is predictable.
  • Dez is a shell of his former self.
  • Some of our fans are afflicted with the same "Cantletgoitis" that affects our front office.
  • Dez is a crybaby.
  • Dez is a veteran.
  • Dez should be leading by example.
  • Dez likes whine with his cheese.
  • Dez drops balls.
  • Dez led the league in dropped balls in 2017.
  • Dez loves Dez.
  • Dez got lazy after the big contract.
  • Our offense is predictable.
  • Our offense is predictable.
  • Dez runs lazy routes.
  • Dez and his lazy routes fool no one.
  • Dez's lazy routes contribute to zero separation.
  • Dez gon Dez.
  • Bye Dez.
 
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