Finding a mid round Safety

Alexander said:

This is really not the year to go looking for a safety.

There are only six I think could actually make it in the league as a potential starter and two of them are going to be gone by 19:

1. Minkah Fitzpatrick
2. Derwin James
3. Ronnie Harrison
4. Justin Reid
5. Kyzir White
6. Jessie Bates

There are some others below this list, like Whitehead, Allen, Edmonds and Siran Neal. I just don't see them as potential starters down the road.

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stilltheguru88 said:

Starter is a loose term. But anyway, I rock with Marcus Allen mid round as a run stopper. We’ll see how he tests

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cnuball21 said:

I knew I forgot someone in Gaulden! Another great option.

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• Minkah Fitzpatrick - Top 10 grade. Dude is a stud.

• Derwin James - in a weak class at the top, I think he goes top 10. There are some rough edges, but stud potential is easily there.

• Justin Reid - Top 25 grade. Very, very fluid athlete. Stanford used him as a CB a lot of the time, and he was excellent at it. Showed some ball skills when he was put in deep zone. Not a punishing tackler - he does a nice job wrapping up when he has position, but he's not an enforcer like you'd like to see at SS. I think he is NFL ready as a FS or as a Vaccaro type for teams that like to play their safeties down on the slot.

• Ronnie Harrison - 2nd round grade. Big, fast, and productive. I don't think he's actually that good of a football player, but he checks every measurable box you want and he can thump. You can plug him in day one as your downhill SS.

• Jessie Bates - 3rd round grade. Fast and has ball skills, but seems a little straight-linish and really bad at tackling. He has the range for FS though. Out of the mid round guys, this is the one where I could really see how he could end up starting.

• Terrell Edmunds - 3rd round grade. Looks more like a Will linebacker than a safety, honestly. He looks pretty good in man and stepping up to play the run, but seems to really struggle on deep throws.

• Kyzir White - 3rd round grade. He's hard to evaluate, because he's a downhill SS playing in a wide-open passing league. Seems to be a pretty average athlete and his coverage is nothing special.

• DaShon Elliott - 4rd round grade. He's big and has ball skills, but doesn't look to be very athletic. It will be interesting to see his Combine.

• Armani Watts - 4th round grade. He's just a guy. A little smaller than average, a little faster than average. I didn't really see any standout traits.

• Marcus Allen - 4th round grade. He's a box safety that can't cover, guys like that are a dime a dozen. The only reason he's this high is because he's big and loves to hit, so there might be some Kavon Frazier potential as a sub package safety and special teamer.

cnuball21 said:

In the mid rounds, you're looking for someone that can turn into a quality starter...not an elite player. Every team gets lucky every once in a while, but it's not normal. So we could certainly go after the other positions you mentioned, but your looking at mid round talent at those positions as well.

Outside of that, I think I just disagree with you on all of the positions. I'm not good with Heath as a start S, and we're basically arguing about upgrading the Safety spot vs depth at other positions. Yes we could use some depth at multiple positions, but trim the fat first at the starting positions where you have weak links.

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Alexander said:

I have him as a corner.

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xwalker said:

Safety really wasn't a weak link, it just wasn't an above average position.

They don't have a starting 1-tech.

LB was a disaster early in the season due to lack of depth. Safety was never at that point.

Swing Tackle was a disaster. Swing Tackle is arguably more important than the starting LG.

WR was a disaster. Byron Jones and Jeff were better NFL players than TWill.

Most fans complain about Safeties but never actually watch the All-22 film. Analyzing Safety play from the broadcast view is very limited. Hopefully you're not one of those fans since the All-22 is easily accessible these days.

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Alexander said:

I have him as a corner.

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xwalker said:

Safety really wasn't a weak link, it just wasn't an above average position.

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xwalker said:

Byron Jones and Jeff were better NFL players than TWill.

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KingintheNorth said:

I like him in the permanent nickelback role that is basically a starting position thanks to guys like Honey Badger. Free Safety look but spends most of his time in the slot.

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KingintheNorth said:

I like him in the permanent nickelback role that is basically a starting position thanks to guys like Honey Badger. Free Safety look but spends most of his time in the slot.

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KingintheNorth said:

I agree with you on a lot of what you said except this. Heath is a liability. He has bad instincts. He plays the middle way too long, either bad reads or scared, and he's late to a lot of deep balls.He will come and hit a guy, but he does not consistently play the deep ball well IMO.

For as many really good things Byron does, he has some deficiencies too. Many of which might be scheme-related.



As much as there is to not like about TWill, he is a much more effective NFL player than Heath is.

Heath has some kind of Fan boy hopes-and-dreams, fantasies of Bill Bates and Cliff Harris thing going on with this board.

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KingintheNorth said:

I agree with you on a lot of what you said except this. Heath is a liability. He has bad instincts. He plays the middle way too long, either bad reads or scared, and he's late to a lot of deep balls.He will come and hit a guy, but he does not consistently play the deep ball well IMO.

For as many really good things Byron does, he has some deficiencies too. Many of which might be scheme-related.



As much as there is to not like about TWill, he is a much more effective NFL player than Heath is.

Heath has some kind of Fan boy hopes-and-dreams, fantasies of Bill Bates and Cliff Harris thing going on with this board.

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cnuball21 said:

Allen is a stud against the run, but I worry that he's not a good enough athlete to cover in the NFL.

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cnuball21 said:

If I could take one player from this draft based on team need and value Derwin James would probably be my guy. Unfortunately, I think there is about a 0% chance he's available at 19. That being said, I'd love to try to pick up a guy that can turn into a starter for us. After him, there isn't any top end talent at the position but like WR there appears to be some pretty good depth in mid rounds. I'm just having trouble differentiating through some of these dudes.

Is Derwin elite?
Measurable's - yes.
Instincts & Recognition - don't see it so much.

Once his brain says "go", yeah, its impressive. Unfortunately, I'm seeing him react late which negates his athletic advantage. If he had the instincts of Minkah he would be preventing the play rather than just making a nice tackle to stop the play.

I started out with him definitely being one of the 15-20 players with a 1st round grade. Now, I'm not so sure. Thoughts?

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