Should a RB, including Zeke on Sunday, be called for lowering their head to initiate contact?

OmerV · Dec 14, 2018

shabazz said:
I agree. It’s just tough to watch today’s wussified NFL when one was raised watching Jack Tatum ahnialate people on Sunday’s. Although Zeke did put himself at risk turning back into the field of play, the Neanderthal in me loved watching him deliver that blow. Great to see a degree of unapologetic Testosterone by a millennial. Bravo

I agree the NFL is "wussified", but if they are going to call it on a defensive player it is only fair to call it on an offensive player that does the same thing. Most of these plays are just players playing hard though, and not really a true targeting.

Scotman · Dec 14, 2018

MarcusRock said:
You can argue the point about whether it should have been called since it hasn't been enforced in general but if you actually look at the video, Zeke pretty much targeted that DB to run him over by turning back towards him instead of running straight like he had been or just running out of bounds with the first down. He got himself hurt on the play too so he simply needs to stop doing it. He probably got flagged because it was unnecessary.

I JUST posted about how ridiculous this was...and then I see this angle. Jeez...looks a lot worse from this angle.

DogFace · Dec 14, 2018

CalPolyTechnique said:
It’s all documented in this thread. This isn’t some conversation from three seasons ago.

Right it is. https://cowboyszone.com/threads/sho...-their-head-to-initiate-contact.423396/page-4
5th post down and in the post that you replied to me

Click to expand...

Yes. That’s why we felt it was correctly ruled a no call. Kamara also lowered his head.

But you’re right. After watching again Kamara didn’t lower his head.

Are you trying to have it both ways?

Do you feel the Philly defender lowered and lead with his head?

^^^^^^^^
That’s the entire post verbatim.

Can you answer the last question about whether you think the Eagles player lowered and lead with his head?

Also, do you believe Zeke was the first RB to lower his head since the new rule was “implemented”?

shabazz · Dec 14, 2018

OmerV said:
I agree the NFL is "wussified", but if they are going to call it on a defensive player it is only fair to call it on an offensive player that does the same thing. Most of these plays are just players playing hard though, and not really a true targeting.

Good point. I guess I should have been shocked that they actually went after an offensive player, but then I remembered he had the star on his helmet. I’m sure this would have been called on Levon Bell or Saquon Barkley too..........not

DogFace · Dec 14, 2018

MarcusRock said:
In fact, one of them I ignore completely because he adds nothing to any discussion so he takes it upon himself to try to PM me with insults, not to debate whatever it is I'm talking about in whatever thread. What would you call a sad sack like that?

“Takes it upon himself”? What should I do? Get my assistant to handle it?

You “ignore me” yet comment on me and my posts quite often.

superonyx · Dec 14, 2018

MarcusRock said:
No, you're getting it twisted again. I show up in threads and they have to comment on stuff I say specifically whether they were in the thread before I was or not. And I know they do it because the points I make are valid. Otherwise, I'm not sure why they'd just not ignore me unless what I say compels them to have to answer because I weakened the case on their side. I like to debate but if people want to show up and hurl insults because they can't gainsay my points, then what else do you call them but fan bois?

In fact, one of them I ignore completely because he adds nothing to any discussion so he takes it upon himself to try to PM me with insults, not to debate whatever it is I'm talking about in whatever thread. What would you call a sad sack like that?

You can do whatever you want obviously. I just don’t know if I would come across as a troll to cowboys fans on a cowboys message board. You may or may not intend to do this but when you jump on every thread where anyone complains about officiating it comes off that way.

There is no right or wrong around here. No ones opinion or perspective is any more legit or valuable than anyone else’s. We are all just fans of the same team talking football. I don’t see the benefit in trolling fans who don’t share my opinion.

BlindFaith · Dec 15, 2018

Captain43Crash said:
They must have taken you out on short yardage plays.

No. But I never used myself as a battering ram. I always had my head up, even when it was down. If that makes sense.
I'd much rather use my shoulder than my head to take on tacklers. And I'd really prefer to make them miss altogether.
There is bracing for contact and then there is using your head as a weapon. Zeke was clearly using his enormous head has a weapon.

CalPolyTechnique · Dec 15, 2018

Mr_C said:
Right it is. https://cowboyszone.com/threads/sho...-their-head-to-initiate-contact.423396/page-4
5th post down and in the post that you replied to me

Click to expand...

Yes. That’s why we felt it was correctly ruled a no call. Kamara also lowered his head.

But you’re right. After watching again Kamara didn’t lower his head.

Are you trying to have it both ways?

Do you feel the Philly defender lowered and lead with his head?

^^^^^^^^
That’s the entire post verbatim.

Can you answer the last question about whether you think the Eagles player lowered and lead with his head?

Also, do you believe Zeke was the first RB to lower his head since the new rule was “implemented”?

The defender went low (awkwardly) as he’s permitted to do. You seem to think that illegal because you continue to hang your hat on it and you’re wrong.

No, Zeke isn’t the first to lower his head. They fined Hunt (Chiefs) for doing it.

You’ve created this false notion that 1) defenders aren’t allowed to go low and 2) that a ball carrier is somehow permitted to “protect” himself by putting his helmet into the defender’s helmet.

fairviewfarmer · Dec 15, 2018

Zeke will be the only RB called for it. Just watch.

cowboyec · Dec 15, 2018

not when the defender lowers theirs first.
:starspin:

BEAT indy

DogFace · Dec 16, 2018

CalPolyTechnique said:
The defender went low (awkwardly) as he’s permitted to do. You seem to think that illegal because you continue to hang your hat on it and you’re wrong.

No, Zeke isn’t the first to lower his head. They fined Hunt (Chiefs) for doing it.

You’ve created this false notion that 1) defenders aren’t allowed to go low and 2) that a ball carrier is somehow permitted to “protect” himself by putting his helmet into the defender’s helmet.

They aren’t allowed to lead with their head. Especially the crown. Which he did.

Zeke was the second one fined and the first in the entire league to be called for a 15 yard penalty. Id guess it’s happened more times than those two and wasn’t called. That’s why this should have been a no call.

You are allowed to use your head, dummy. So here’s your chance to use it to learn.

CalPolyTechnique · Dec 16, 2018

Mr_C said:
They aren’t allowed to lead with their head. Especially the crown. Which he did.

Zeke was the second one fined and the first in the entire league to be called for a 15 yard penalty. Id guess it’s happened more times than those two and wasn’t called. That’s why this should have been a no call.

You are allowed to use your head, dummy. So here’s your chance to use it to learn.

He didn’t lead with his crown you idiot.

The video proves it. You’re acting as if he came in, arms to his side like missle with his head. As it’s been pointed out, Zeke turned into the defender to initiate contact with his helmet.

You’ve got a problem making it up as you go. If you stopped and actually watched the clip you wouldn’t have to go back to your posts and sloppily edit them In an attempt to save face.

“Buh, Kamara lowered his head....duh...okay, you’re right, Kamara didn’t lower his head.”

Bob-Lillys-War · Dec 16, 2018

Every RB does it , every single one .

Melonfeud · Dec 16, 2018

CalPolyTechnique said:
Uh no, the “woe is uz” crowd can’t have it both ways.

We had folks literally trying to excuse Jaylon’s helmet shot as a legit non-call while blaming Kamara for supposedly lowering his head, which was complete crap anyways as Kamara pulled his head away from Smith, not toward him.

It’s a great example of a certain segment of vocal Cowboy fans that look to excuse EVERY penalty called against the Cowboys.

Ya, our #54 tooled on thru on roller skates in that "questionable" contact during the SAINTS game.

*no doubt! For "if" the "scrambled CASING-LINER" syndrome of footballish aftermath & of it's long term EFFECTS were truly the TAP ROOT of the LEAGUE'S heartfelt concerns,,, that WOULD'VE BEEN A ZEBRA AWARD,,,& invariably ,,,er,,,in all reasoned likelihood, lost us that GAME,,,

Bob-Lillys-War · Dec 16, 2018

CalPolyTechnique said:

#24 Corey Graham is clearly lowering his head, and leading the tackle with his helmet .

Melonfeud · Dec 16, 2018

superonyx said:
Nope.

They were saying neither play should be a flag.
Neither of these are examples of targeting. When you have 2 guys running that fast towards each other it’s inevitable that one guy may move himself slightly and the other may also.

Crying for a flag every time guys helmets touch isn’t helping.
The rule is trying to take defensive players from targeting defenseless players.
Nothing about either of these plays has Zeke, Jaylon, Kamara, Eagles DB as defenseless players.

" Targeting " ain't got nothing to do whatsoever, in the concernment of the rule in question, as it's written!,,,, Friend

Melonfeud · Dec 16, 2018

Bob-Lillys-War said:
#24 Corey Graham is clearly lowering his head, and leading the tackle with his helmet .

Thanks Man,for that angle view,,,& I'll buy what yer' selling, ALL DAY LONG!

DogFace · Dec 16, 2018

CalPolyTechnique said:
He didn’t lead with his crown you idiot.

The video proves it. You’re acting as if he came in, arms to his side like missle with his head. As it’s been pointed out, Zeke turned into the defender to initiate contact with his helmet.

You’ve got a problem making it up as you go. If you stopped and actually watched the clip you wouldn’t have to go back to your posts and sloppily edit them In an attempt to save face.

“Buh, Kamara lowered his head....duh...okay, you’re right, Kamara didn’t lower his head.”

https://operations.nfl.com/the-rules/nfl-video-rulebook/use-of-the-helmet/

You’re really saying he didn’t lead with and lower his helmet?

I was man enough to admit I was wrong on the Kamara hit.

Time to be a man. Don’t be dishonest . I’ve caught you lying before. Haven’t I?

You’re lying to yourself now. Stop it.

RustyBourneHorse · Dec 16, 2018

This is one of the reasons why I said in the preseason that Garrett should bring in the New Zealand rugby coach or take the team to NZ so that the NZ coach can teach our team rugby tactics and moves. I don't like this call, but it is the way the NFL is becoming. So, rugby moves are a good solution to this problem.

CalPolyTechnique · Dec 16, 2018

Mr_C said:
https://operations.nfl.com/the-rules/nfl-video-rulebook/use-of-the-helmet/

You’re really saying he didn’t lead with and lower his helmet?

I was man enough to admit I was wrong on the Kamara hit.

You’re no man. You’re dishonest. I’ve caught you lying before. Haven’t I?

You’re lying to yourself now. Stop it.

Lool, thank you for posting that!

EVERY SINGLE EXAMPLE in that video is of a defender going helmet-to-helmet with a ball carrier (with exception to the Raiders receiver trucking some defender...you guessed it...helmet-to-helmet), which coincides precisely with the new emphasis on this rule recently to help try to reduce concussions.

In fact, if you watched the video (which I’m sure you didn’t) it actually breaks it down clearer:

Player lowers his helmet to establish a linear body posture prior to initiating and making contact with the helmet; (Zeke turns in to the oncoming defender)
Player delivering the blow had an unobstructed path to his opponent; (Zeke took a clear path to the defender)
Contact was clearly avoidable. (Absolutely)

Why are there no examples of defenders going low like #24 did. In fact, since you think it’s a penalty, call out an actual play that was similar where a flag was called.

Should a RB, including Zeke on Sunday, be called for lowering their head to initiate contact?

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I Copy!,,, er,,,I guess,,,ah,,,maybe.

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I Copy!,,, er,,,I guess,,,ah,,,maybe.

I Copy!,,, er,,,I guess,,,ah,,,maybe.

Carharris2

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