Dak vs Carr after 3 season and Carr's $125M contract

Stash · Jan 17, 2019

CATCH17 said:
A lot of what Amari Cooper did came in a couple of games and again the environment in Dallas gets very favorable matchups in the passing game.

Dak threw 22 TD's and 7 of them came in 2 games.

And did those "7 TD's in two games" come with or without Amari Cooper? The guy that Carr had for three years and still put up worse numbers?

austin88 · Jan 17, 2019

CATCH17 said:
Derek Carr has a lot of arm talent and he's in a horrible Jon Gruden offense.

If Derek Carr was our QB and he would do really well here because of the matchups on the outside he would get thanks to Zeke.

For the years cited in the OP -- Carr's first three year -- he wasn't in Gruden's offense. At least in 2015-2016, Del Rio was the head coach, and Bill Musgrave was the OC. They had a strong OL, a good back in Latavius Murray, and Carr's top WRs were Michael Crabtree and some guy named Amari Cooper.

DFWJC · Jan 17, 2019

Does not even matter what Carr makes.
Ask the majority of the NFL owners right now if Oakland is getting good value with that Carr contract and they would say "no"

In any case, although Carr has better arm talent than Dak, some could argue that he may not be the better overall QB. (I'm not going to go there either way)

So hard to compare though.
Screw what Cooper does.
He makes a big difference here because we already have way more valuable assets with a better combined oline and the NFL's top rusher.
Carr certainly did not have that.

CATCH17 · Jan 17, 2019

stasheroo said:
And did those "7 TD's in two games" come with or without Amari Cooper? The guy that Carr had for three years and still put up worse numbers?

I don't think anyone that knows football would argue with me and say Dak is a better thrower of the football than Carr.

If you want to factor in all the intangibles and everything then that's fine. Maybe that does make Dak a better QB.

But Daks environment sure as heck benefits him. Dallas makes everything favorable for him and he does an ok job as our QB. Nothing special.

aikemirv · Jan 17, 2019

A lot of mistakes being made with high dollar QB contracts. One thing for sure though is you better have the team around them or it will not pay off. Carr is a prime example of that. They are wasting a lot of money and by the time his deal is done, they will have nothing to show for it. The same thing will happen with the Cowboys with Dak. It will not be because of the team around him though, it will be because of HIS limitations!

There are only a handful of QB's that really can make it work with that much money given to the QB (the 25-30 mill) because THEY have the ability to overcome those other deficiencies! Dak is not that guy, Cousins isn't, Alex Smith isn't, Garoppolo probably is not, Stafford is not. Giving your QB that much money is just to keep the fans in the seat to have a watchable product, but it is not going to get you a title!

InTheZone · Jan 17, 2019

Bottom line, ignore what other teams are paying. Don't overpay because many of these break the bank qbs missed the playoffs. We can't afford that.

CATCH17 · Jan 17, 2019

DFWJC said:
Does not even matter what Carr makes.
Ask the majority of the NFL owners right now if Oakland is getting good value with that Carr contract and they would say "no"

In any case, although Carr has better arm talent than Dak, some could argue that he may not be the better overall QB. (I'm not going to go there either way)

So hard to compare though.
Screw what Cooper does.
He makes a big difference here because we already have a way more valuable assets with a better oline and the NFL's top rusher.
Carr certainly did not have that.

Agree completely.

Carr is not worth a big deal.

Dak is also not worth a big deal.

Both QB's are only as good as the environment around them and that's not a knock because even the elite QB's who have these monster contracts are struggling.

aikemirv · Jan 17, 2019

CATCH17 said:
I don't think anyone that knows football would argue with me and say Dak is a better thrower of the football than Carr.

If you want to factor in all the intangibles and everything then that's fine. Maybe that does make Dak a better QB.

But Daks environment sure as heck benefits him. Dallas makes everything favorable for him and he does an ok job as our QB. Nothing special.

Yep and there were a couple throws in the Rams game by Goff where you said to yourself, "Dak can't make those throws"l. He just does not have that arm talent. Does not mean he won't win games or have a successful career but....

Willfreedom909 · Jan 17, 2019

CATCH17 said:
I don't think anyone that knows football would argue with me and say Dak is a better thrower of the football than Carr.

If you want to factor in all the intangibles and everything then that's fine. Maybe that does make Dak a better QB.

But Daks environment sure as heck benefits him. Dallas makes everything favorable for him and he does an ok job as our QB. Nothing special.

Just stop. Carr has elite WR talent his first 3 years and produced nothing but interceptions and playoff whiffs.

Imagine Cole Beasley being his lead receiver and leading his team to a first seed in the blood bath NFC.

It doesn’t happen. Carr is a middling quarterback.

Stash · Jan 17, 2019

CATCH17 said:
I don't think anyone that knows football would argue with me and say Dak is a better thrower of the football than Carr.

No one is.

What everyone is saying that "arm talent" and "thrower of the football" isn't the end-all, be-all, of quarterbacking. And the stats clearly show that.

If you want to factor in all the intangibles and everything then that's fine. Maybe that does make Dak a better QB.

But Daks environment sure as heck benefits him. Dallas makes everything favorable for him and he does an ok job as our QB. Nothing special.

But more "special" than a 2nd round draft pick making $125 million, despite being an "arm talent" and "thrower of the football".

InTheZone · Jan 17, 2019

stasheroo said:
Too bad the arm is connected to the head.

O rly?

408Cowboy · Jan 17, 2019

CATCH17 said:
Carr has far more arm talent.

The throw at 1:18 Dak dreams of making that kind of throw.

Do you watch oakland or just highlights? Carr isn't as good as people make him out to be. He's almost a poor man's Tony Romo.

CATCH17 · Jan 17, 2019

408Cowboy said:
Do you watch oakland or just highlights? Carr isn't as good as people make him out to be. He's almost a poor man's Tony Romo.

I stand by what I said about Carr's arm talent being better then Dak's.

408Cowboy · Jan 17, 2019

CATCH17 said:
I stand by what I said about Carr's arm talent being better then Dak's.

Cool. I'll apply poor to extremely poor decision making to go with it and get a clearer picture.

CATCH17 · Jan 17, 2019

408Cowboy said:
Cool. I'll apply poor to extremely poor decision making to go with it and get a clearer picture.

Ok then compare environment to environment in your clearer picture and don't ignore what putting Ezekiel Elliot into your backfield provides.

pansophy · Jan 17, 2019

stasheroo said:
I completely disagree. He had Amari Cooper for those three years, and still put up lesser numbers.

What are the lesser numbers? Completion percentage and a successful play aren't the same thing. This year Dak had the 3rd best passer rating on 3rd and 8+ yards once Amari arrived, but that only translated into making a first down 22.7% of the time, ranking us at 23rd.

408Cowboy · Jan 17, 2019

CATCH17 said:
Ok then compare environment to environment in your clearer picture and don't ignore what putting Ezekiel Elliot into your backfield provides.

It provides more one on one matchups on the outside. Carr still makes poor decisions with the ball on a routine basis.

TheMarathonContinues · Jan 17, 2019

CATCH17 said:
Derek Carr has a lot of arm talent and he's in a horrible Jon Gruden offense.

If Derek Carr was our QB and he would do really well here because of the matchups on the outside he would get thanks to Zeke.

He was bad before Gruden. Let’s don’t blame Gruden for that.

Stash · Jan 17, 2019

pansophy said:
What are the lesser numbers? Completion percentage and a successful play aren't the same thing. This year Dak had the 3rd best passer rating on 3rd and 8+ yards once Amari arrived, but that only translated into making a first down 22.7% of the time, ranking us at 23rd.

All of the bigger, more important numbers. Translating to points, turnovers, wins and losses.

TheMarathonContinues · Jan 17, 2019

DFWJC said:
Does not even matter what Carr makes.
Ask the majority of the NFL owners right now if Oakland is getting good value with that Carr contract and they would say "no"

In any case, although Carr has better arm talent than Dak, some could argue that he may not be the better overall QB. (I'm not going to go there either way)

So hard to compare though.
Screw what Cooper does.
He makes a big difference here because we already have way more valuable assets with a better combined oline and the NFL's top rusher.
Carr certainly did not have that.

I don’t know though....based on what Garopolo and Cousins get? That Carr deal doesn’t look as bad as it initially did.

Dak vs Carr after 3 season and Carr's $125M contract

Stash

austin88

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DFWJC

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CATCH17

1st Round Pick

aikemirv

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InTheZone

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CATCH17

1st Round Pick

aikemirv

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Willfreedom909

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Stash

InTheZone

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408Cowboy

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CATCH17

1st Round Pick

408Cowboy

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CATCH17

1st Round Pick

pansophy

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408Cowboy

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TheMarathonContinues

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Stash

TheMarathonContinues

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