Deion/Irvin NFC championship interference

mahoneybill · Feb 17, 2019

Finally watched the NFL recap of the championship game.

Irvin was on it and was animated about Cooks not catching balls to help his team win.

Brandon Marshall set him up re his rant by showing the NFC championship pass from Troy to Michael where clearly Deion held him and arm barred him at the same time. No call

That one is a clear case, along with the Rams/Saints non call as to why we need the coaches to be able to use an existing challenge to overcome non calls.

Your take

CPanther95 · Feb 17, 2019

It's logistically impossible to fairly allow non-calls to be reviewed.

Aven8 · Feb 17, 2019

Only two corners could play with Irvin and Deion wasn’t one of them. Aeneas Williams and Bobby Taylor. That’s about it.

Cowboys22 · Feb 17, 2019

CPanther95 said:
It's logistically impossible to fairly allow non-calls to be reviewed.

I’m not sure that is true as long as you set narrow parameters. I think you could make plays reviewable from the time the ball leaves the QBs hand until the play is over. That would basically eliminate all the subjective stuff except PI and personal fouls from being reviewable. Reviewing non calls would be very tricky I agree but if just those two things are made reviewable, I think it can be done. The criteria for calling a penalty after reviewing a non call would have to be very strong and clear. It would have to be blatant. Minor contact could not be used to call a penalty. It likely will never happen but some attempt to fix this issue should be made.

75boyz · Feb 17, 2019

Cowboys22 said:
I’m not sure that is true as long as you set narrow parameters. I think you could make plays reviewable from the time the ball leaves the QBs hand until the play is over. That would basically eliminate all the subjective stuff except PI and personal fouls from being reviewable. Reviewing non calls would be very tricky I agree but if just those two things are made reviewable, I think it can be done. The criteria for calling a penalty after reviewing a non call would have to be very strong and clear. It would have to be blatant. Minor contact could not be used to call a penalty. It likely will never happen but some attempt to fix this issue should be made.

Nicely said. You make a strong case.

DFWJC · Feb 17, 2019

Love Michael. A beast.

But if he had 80 catches, probably 20 of them were from him pushing off. Don't blame him at all, because if they don't call it then you should use it.
And yes, Deion did interfere there. I've seen a bunch of no calls like that this year that are baffling.
Far worse was the Saints no call though. Can't even dream up a worse interference than just blasting the guy and making it completely impossible to catch it before the ball even gets there.

northerncowboynation · Feb 17, 2019

Well. because it's Irvin I'll ignore the thought and the rant. He's lost all credibility

Aerolithe_Lion · Feb 17, 2019

My problem with the idea is who decides what the grey area between egregious and ticky-tack is? Because players and coaches complain about every little thing, we’re gonna get stoppage every few minutes to review a non-call PI that may not have even happened. And somebody like Jon Gruden or Adam Gase is going to go ballistic if it isn’t reviewed. Give someone an inch and they’ll take a mile.

Otherwise, if there’s just an extra ref at every game watching a monitor in the press box who can call down within 30 seconds to overturn a call and it doesn’t affect gameplay then that works for me.

Aven8 said:
Only two corners could play with Irvin and Deion wasn’t one of them. Aeneas Williams and Bobby Taylor. That’s about it.

I remember an NFC playoff game where We played Troy and Bobby on Carter and Moss. Bobby covered the middle routes and Troy followed the deep threat. On one play Randy went over the middle and Bobby was behind Moss and somehow reached around his body and into his ‘football pocket’ and knocked the ball away, without ever touching the receiver. It was awesome, he just Moss’d Moss. Never saw a corner do that before (to him).

links18 · Feb 17, 2019

If Jerry wouldnt have pushed Jimmy out and we would have won a game or two more in the regular season that year as a result, the game would have been in Dallas, we would have won and easily defeated the Stan Humphries led Chaegers the next week, leading to four Super Bowl championships in a row.

At least that is what happens in my revisionist history imagination.

xwalker · Feb 17, 2019

CPanther95 said:
It's logistically impossible to fairly allow non-calls to be reviewed.

Cowboys22 said:
I’m not sure that is true as long as you set narrow parameters. I think you could make plays reviewable from the time the ball leaves the QBs hand until the play is over. That would basically eliminate all the subjective stuff except PI and personal fouls from being reviewable. Reviewing non calls would be very tricky I agree but if just those two things are made reviewable, I think it can be done. The criteria for calling a penalty after reviewing a non call would have to be very strong and clear. It would have to be blatant. Minor contact could not be used to call a penalty. It likely will never happen but some attempt to fix this issue should be made.

The new AAF.league is using a "Sky Judge".

It was not perfect on the AAF opening weekend, but only idiot fans would expect it to be perfect from day 1 or even season 1 when the NFL has had many years of instant replay and can't get it right.

The NFL is constrained by the officials union and their politics. The NFL on-field refs fear being replaced by remote replay refs who are not in the union.

Among them will be a ninth member of the officiating crew, called a SkyJudge who will be in the press box and can instantly correct "obvious and egregious" officiating errors, like the one that marred the NFC championship game. Overtime will be different, too.

https://www.___GET_REAL_URL___/s/www.12newsnow.com/amp/article?section=news&subsection=nation-world&headline=new-aaf-football-league-feature-might-have-prevented-nfc-title-game-no-call&contentId=507-6c18a9e2-efb6-46cc-af10-10d806875d5a

marchetta · Feb 17, 2019

4' Mark

CPanther95 · Feb 17, 2019

xwalker said:
The new AAF.league is using a "Sky Judge".

It was not perfect on the AAF opening weekend, but only idiot fans would expect it to be perfect from day 1 or even season 1 when the NFL has had many years of instant replay and can't get it right.

The NFL is constrained by the officials union and their politics. The NFL on-field refs fear being replaced by remote replay refs who are not in the union.

Among them will be a ninth member of the officiating crew, called a SkyJudge who will be in the press box and can instantly correct "obvious and egregious" officiating errors, like the one that marred the NFC championship game. Overtime will be different, too.

https://www.___GET_REAL_URL___/s/www.12newsnow.com/amp/article?section=news&subsection=nation-world&headline=new-aaf-football-league-feature-might-have-prevented-nfc-title-game-no-call&contentId=507-6c18a9e2-efb6-46cc-af10-10d806875d5a

Adding an extra official into the mix - even off field - isn't even remotely similar to allowing teams to call for a review for no calls. That's entirely possible.

OmerV · Feb 17, 2019

Cowboys22 said:
I’m not sure that is true as long as you set narrow parameters. I think you could make plays reviewable from the time the ball leaves the QBs hand until the play is over. That would basically eliminate all the subjective stuff except PI and personal fouls from being reviewable. Reviewing non calls would be very tricky I agree but if just those two things are made reviewable, I think it can be done. The criteria for calling a penalty after reviewing a non call would have to be very strong and clear. It would have to be blatant. Minor contact could not be used to call a penalty. It likely will never happen but some attempt to fix this issue should be made.

Part of me agrees with you, but at the same time I think there would be a lot of controversy over where to draw that line between whether the interference was “strong and clear” or if it was too minor a level of intereference to cause a change in the call. To me it would have to be either interference or not, period, rather than adding an extra, middle of the road layer of interpretation based on whether it was blatant interference or minor interference.

The other thing is, it really wouldn’t be fair to allow a review of a non call on PI, and not allow a review on a called interference that was a bad call. If it’s reviewable you have to give the defense the same chance to challenge a PI call as the offense.

CowboyRoy · Feb 17, 2019

CPanther95 said:
It's logistically impossible to fairly allow non-calls to be reviewed.

In the last two minutes of the game, all these type of calls should be allowed to be reviewed as a challenge like the rest. Its either pass interference or its not. Same as a guy stepping out of bounds or not. PI is THAT important.

CPanther95 · Feb 17, 2019

CowboyRoy said:
In the last two minutes of the game, all these type of calls should be allowed to be reviewed as a challenge like the rest. Its either pass interference or its not. Same as a guy stepping out of bounds or not. PI is THAT important.

Nothing is THAT important that you should have different rules depending on what time of the game it is.

Is a missed TD because of a blown call with 2:05 left in the game any less devastating than one that occurs 5 seconds later?

CowboyStar88 · Feb 17, 2019

Aerolithe_Lion said:
My problem with the idea is who decides what the grey area between egregious and ticky-tack is? Because players and coaches complain about every little thing, we’re gonna get stoppage every few minutes to review a non-call PI that may not have even happened. And somebody like Jon Gruden or Adam Gase is going to go ballistic if it isn’t reviewed. Give someone an inch and they’ll take a mile.

Otherwise, if there’s just an extra ref at every game watching a monitor in the press box who can call down within 30 seconds to overturn a call and it doesn’t affect gameplay then that works for me.

I remember an NFC playoff game where We played Troy and Bobby on Carter and Moss. Bobby covered the middle routes and Troy followed the deep threat. On one play Randy went over the middle and Bobby was behind Moss and somehow reached around his body and into his ‘football pocket’ and knocked the ball away, without ever touching the receiver. It was awesome, he just Moss’d Moss. Never saw a corner do that before (to him).

Bobby Taylor was a great talent and a damn good corner. Eagles still suck though :grin:

xwalker · Feb 17, 2019

CPanther95 said:
Adding an extra official into the mix - even off field - isn't even remotely similar to allowing teams to call for a review for no calls. That's entirely possible.

SkyJudge who will be in the press box and can instantly correct "obvious and egregious" officiating errors.

The SkyJudge does not require a review to be called.

He can make rulings himself in real-time similar to the on-field refs.

It does not matter about the exact AAF rules. It's the concept that is important.

In the current NFL system the viewers and commentators can see what is reasonable in a very short period of time, yet it either does not get called or does not get reviewed.

On plays that are reviewed it's a slow process compared to the commentators and fans having watched multiple reviews and probably managed a bathroom break before the refs finish the review.

A ref seeing everything that TV viewers see should have authority to throw a flag or over-rule a call before the ball is snapped again without the need for a timeout or a coach having to challenge a call.

There might be a small added delay if the SkyJudge sees something on review and throws a flag but he could be required to throw the flag before the next snap. Then the delay is only to enforce the penalty which is normally just re-spotting the ball and possibly resetting the play clock.

The AAF can try this type of innovation because they don't have to deal with the official's union.

Techsass · Feb 17, 2019

OmerV said:
If it’s reviewable you have to give the defense the same chance to challenge a PI call as the offense.

PI is the longest, game changing penalty call that can be made most of the time. The non-call is a new wrinkle to an old issue.

CPanther95 · Feb 17, 2019

xwalker said:
SkyJudge who will be in the press box and can instantly correct "obvious and egregious" officiating errors.

That's still an impartial (hopefully) 3rd party - an official - that is either making a call, or a no call. It might cause some later thrown flags or a delay in picking up a flag, but is essentially the same thing we have now. Probably much improved.

Still not even close to the can of worms you open if you allow the teams to ask for a flag on replay of a play where a flag wasn't thrown.

ItzKelz · Feb 17, 2019

That PI cost us a ring.

Deion/Irvin NFC championship interference

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