Cowboyszoners over valuing our players

Verdict · Feb 19, 2019

ABQCOWBOY said:
There is no way we do that. In the end, it would cost us any chance to win long term. Heck, short term would be a stretch, IMO.

Spot on. That's exactly the point.

People can't look at these contracts in a vacuum. They have to be viewed in the big picture.

I think what most of the "pay the man" parrots on this board are forgetting is that Tank KNOWS with a reasonable degree of certainty what he would make on the open market. It is naive to think otherwise.

Knowing that, the "decisional flow chart" goes something like this:

1. Are the Cowboys willing to pay him what he will make on the open market? If so he gets signed for market value.

2. If the Cowboys are not willing to pay him market value, then he either has to (a) play with the Cowboys for less than market value or (b) get tagged or traded or (c) both.

3. I guess the third option would be the Cowboys just let him walk out the door for a comp pick, but I consider that unlikely because he has trade value.

Stash · Feb 19, 2019

#1 on PFT’s top 100 list. Looks like the zone isn’t the only place “overvaluing our players”.

Doomsday101 · Feb 19, 2019

Most of the over valuing I see tends to be player who are FA off other teams. No doubt Cowboys will have some tough choices in FA with their own. I like Beasley but I think it would be safe to say he will likely leave. I think Sean Lee takes a pay cut or he will likely be released. But I also know there are key players on offense and defense that this team needs to address if they expect to take the next step. I think keeping Lawrence is important and when people throw up Gregory name as a savior all I can say is I don't trust him and he has given no reason to trust him. I'm glad he seems to have things together but he is one slip up from being gone so excuse me if I don't put my eggs in his basket. Offensively I do expect Dallas to work out deals with Dak, Zeke and Cooper. Cowboys have maintained their cap by not going crazy in the FA market and yet get blasted quite often for not doing so yet by not getting into that high priced FA market this team has put themselves in a situation to get our own key players signed.

ABQCOWBOY · Feb 19, 2019

DLaw is the top FA according to PFT but that is not the same as the Top DE in the League. He wants that kind of money, I think that would be a mistake. I am not saying he shouldn't get paid. I'm only saying that it would not be wise to pay him top dollar. That's my opinion

Verdict · Feb 19, 2019

Toruk_Makto said:
Literally no one has said let's keep everyone.

What people have said is you're being...not smart...in your campaign to let twenty something pro bowlers leave after we took time to get ot know these players and develop them.

2nd contracts are big and expensive and usually worth it for your own guys.

Please stop.

And you are still ignoring the remainder of my premise which is you have to set a max value on his contract within reason or move on from the player. I do not believe you are so dense that you fail to understand my point. So either you are just making things up to argue with me, which is pointless or you really are that dense which is also meaningless.

Come on. I really don't want to block you so how about you giving a reasonable interpretation to my posts? This is my last attempt to have a meaningful discussion with you before I block you.

Verdict · Feb 19, 2019

ABQCOWBOY said:
DLaw is the top FA according to PFT but that is not the same as the Top DE in the League. He wants that kind of money, I think that would be a mistake. I am not saying he shouldn't get paid. I'm only saying that it would not be wise to pay him top dollar. That's my opinion

Exactly!!!! I'm not sure how realizing that the cap has to be considered in his resigning can't be processed by some on this board. It's not like anyone is Tank hating wanting him cut at all costs. Lol.

Verdict · Feb 19, 2019

Doomsday101 said:
Most of the over valuing I see tends to be player who are FA off other teams. No doubt Cowboys will have some tough choices in FA with their own. I like Beasley but I think it would be safe to say he will likely leave. I think Sean Lee takes a pay cut or he will likely be released. But I also know there are key players on offense and defense that this team needs to address if they expect to take the next step. I think keeping Lawrence is important and when people throw up Gregory name as a savior all I can say is I don't trust him and he has given no reason to trust him. I'm glad he seems to have things together but he is one slip up from being gone so excuse me if I don't put my eggs in his basket. Offensively I do expect Dallas to work out deals with Dak, Zeke and Cooper. Cowboys have maintained their cap by not going crazy in the FA market and yet get blasted quite often for not doing so yet by not getting into that high priced FA market this team has put themselves in a situation to get our own key players signed.

While anything can happen, I think you are right that Dak, Zeke and Cooper are near locks to be resigned. Probably Jaylon too.

The other three are more on the fence than most want to admit to themselves.

Doomsday101 · Feb 19, 2019

ABQCOWBOY said:
DLaw is the top FA according to PFT but that is not the same as the Top DE in the League. He wants that kind of money, I think that would be a mistake. I am not saying he shouldn't get paid. I'm only saying that it would not be wise to pay him top dollar. That's my opinion

True, I'm sure his asking price will be higher than Dallas offering price then they negotiate. If he is not budging then it could get to a point where the 2 sides can't reach an agreement in which case Cowboys can tag him or set him free. However right now everyone is speculating on a contract that has yet to be determined. I never say yes or no to a deal before the deal is on the table. Looking at publication and what they claim he will ask for varies from site to site the real numbers being discussed we don't know.

Verdict · Feb 19, 2019

cern said:
since 2000, 9 superbowls and 6 wins for the pats and the greatest coach in history. it astounds me that any team would do things any other way than the pats do them.

That's right. Everyone wants to be like the Pats but no fan wants the hard decisions made that the Pats make routinely every year.

ABQCOWBOY · Feb 19, 2019

Doomsday101 said:
True, I'm sure his asking price will be higher than Dallas offering price then they negotiate. If he is not budging then it could get to a point where the 2 sides can't reach an agreement in which case Cowboys can tag him or set him free. However right now everyone is speculating on a contract that has yet to be determined. I never say yes or no to a deal before the deal is on the table. Looking at publication and what they claim he will ask for varies from site to site the real numbers being discussed we don't know.

This is true but if the report that broke earlier on the 100 Mil with 70 guaranteed is accurate, that's just not a good deal for the team IMO. But I do agree with you, right now we are fretting over the flees that may or may not be on a dogs back, so to speak.

Doomsday101 · Feb 19, 2019

Verdict said:
While anything can happen, I think you are right that Dak, Zeke and Cooper are near locks to be resigned. Probably Jaylon too.

The other three are more on the fence than most want to admit to themselves.

maybe, maybe not, this is all speculation right now. None of us know the figures the Cowboys are putting out there or what exactly Lawrence is putting out there. I do think this team will do everything within reason to get him signed we will have to wait and see. If we lose him we do lose a lot on defense and would be hard to get a rookie to come in and do the job. As for Gregory again he is one slip up away from being gone and not someone I would be willing to bank on at this stage.

Doomsday101 · Feb 19, 2019

ABQCOWBOY said:
This is true but if the report that broke earlier on the 100 Mil with 70 guaranteed is accurate, that's just not a good deal for the team IMO. But I do agree with you, right now we are fretting over the flees that may or may not be on a dogs back, so to speak.

I know when I have done deals I ask for more than I am willing to actually take. I don't put an offer of the lowest I will do I put out the max I think I can get and work from there.

ABQCOWBOY · Feb 19, 2019

Doomsday101 said:
I know when I have done deals I ask for more than I am willing to actually take. I don't put an offer of the lowest I will do I put out the max I think I can get and work from there.

That's pretty standard stuff but the problem here is that you never know when ego is involved in this type of deal. Things aren't always based on good business decision making. Sometimes it's egos and that's always a tough deal. I hope this is not one of those times.

Verdict · Feb 19, 2019

Doomsday101 said:
maybe, maybe not, this is all speculation right now. None of us know the figures the Cowboys are putting out there or what exactly Lawrence is putting out there. I do think this team will do everything within reason to get him signed we will have to wait and see. If we lose him we do lose a lot on defense and would be hard to get a rookie to come in and do the job. As for Gregory again he is one slip up away from being gone and not someone I would be willing to bank on at this stage.

I agree with everything you just said. I will go one step farther and say that's the approach the Cowboys should take. But $23M per year--mark me down as that's a bad contract.

Doomsday101 · Feb 19, 2019

ABQCOWBOY said:
That's pretty standard stuff but the problem here is that you never know when ego is involved in this type of deal. Things aren't always based on good business decision making. Sometimes it's egos and that's always a tough deal. I hope this is not one of those times.

I agree. Right now I'm sitting back and just waiting to see what they do. I do expect the Cowboys to make a good and fair offer and in the end I think both sides will reach an agreement. We will see.

Doomsday101 · Feb 19, 2019

Verdict said:
I agree with everything you just said. I will go one step farther and say that's the approach the Cowboys should take. But $23M per year--mark me down as that's a bad contract.

23 mill a year avg if it was truly 23 mill each year. However most contract are not written that way. Also most have a buy out option on them. Often it is the guaranteed money they are looking at. Again just wait and see how it plays out. Count me as one who hopes both sides can reach a deal.

StuckMojo · Feb 19, 2019

I don’t keep up with cap space very much like some do on this board, but it seems we have several guys that will be looking for big contracts. Could that get us in trouble?

It seems the Pats don’t give up a lot of huge contracts and have more above average players spread out across the roster instead high priced talent at a few positions. Of course I could be wrong on that since I don’t follow the Pats closely.

Killerinstinct · Feb 19, 2019

StuckMojo said:
I don’t keep up with cap space very much like some do on this board, but it seems we have several guys that will be looking for big contracts. Could that get us in trouble?

It seems the Pats don’t give up a lot of huge contracts and have more above average players spread out across the roster instead high priced talent at a few positions. Of course I could be wrong on that since I don’t follow the Pats closely.

The Pats certainly don't make every above average player on their roster the highest paid at each respective position.

Corso · Feb 19, 2019

ABQCOWBOY said:
DLaw is the top FA according to PFT but that is not the same as the Top DE in the League. He wants that kind of money, I think that would be a mistake. I am not saying he shouldn't get paid. I'm only saying that it would not be wise to pay him top dollar. That's my opinion

Verdict said:
Exactly!!!! I'm not sure how realizing that the cap has to be considered in his resigning can't be processed by some on this board. It's not like anyone is Tank hating wanting him cut at all costs. Lol.

I get you both. Reasonable stuff.
But neither of you know what he will end up getting and while I get that there has to be a demarcation line, what is your top line in the sand for him?
I mean- he is a very, very good player with a game that should age well that helps other guys on the line get single-teamed and he is both good against the pass and run.
When he leaves, this D-Line will be poor and now we're back to the Cowboys hoping for the offense to carry the team without a Romo-type QB.

What are you guys drawing the line at?

ABQCOWBOY · Feb 19, 2019

Corso said:
I get you both. Reasonable stuff.
But neither of you know what he will end up getting and while I get that there has to be a demarcation line, what is your top line in the sand for him?
I mean- he is a very, very good player with a game that should age well that helps other guys on the line get single-teamed and he is both good against the pass and run.
When he leaves, this D-Line will be poor and now we're back to the Cowboys hoping for the offense to carry the team without a Romo-type QB.

What are you guys drawing the line at?

I've posted what I believe his contract should look like but honestly, what does it matter? This is not about DLaw, per say. This is about how you decide to run your business. New England isn't successful because they have decided who to release and who to extend. I mean, that's is certainly part of it, you obviously want to keep Brady but it's really more about how you decide you want to run your team. You do make lines in the sand over these types of things and if it does not fit your design for how you want to run your team, then you move on. This is how you run a business and this is how the Cowboys, IMO, need to operate. You gotta discipline yourself if you want to manage your future cap IMO.

Of course, there are those who will disagree with me wholeheartedly, but this is what I believe.

Cowboyszoners over valuing our players

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