Brady + Belichick + 52 posters on this message board

mattjames2010

mattjames2010

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kskboys said:
We're not going to agree on this. And you forgot Hightower, he's a top 5 LB. Flowers is climbing the list. McCourty is a top flight #2 CB. The other McCourty is a top 10 FS.

As far as players leaving, Jamie Collins is considered a top 5 LB.

Some of this is opinion, but some of these guys are rated much higher than you give them credit for.

Belly is a great coach, on that we definitely agree.
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Hightower may have had some good years in the NFL - he's nowhere near that now, but he's spent his entire career in New England. Same with McCourty. Again, they are playing with Bill - and yet again, nearly everyone who ends up under him seems to play better than where they were before.

The thing about the Patriots is, they typically take good players and put them in the best possible position they can be in - especially when it comes to scheme. it gets the best out of them. Patriots are rarely made up of stud players, they are a team made up of good players and quality depth and genius coaching/Elite QB play. Because of this, Pats rarely ever hit cap hell and even can miss out on draft picks and still succeed.
 

kskboys

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RoboQB said:
I doubt they draft a RB in the 1st round this year, like they did last year drafting Michel.
Plus, White has played a significant role in NE.

You're spot on with Gilmore though. Belichick made him a top guy.

Chandler Jones had 13 sacks in 2018 after posting 17 in 2017.
I think NE wasn't sure whether or not he'd be a walking suspension every year.
Basically, they thought of him like we do David Irving... lol. Lots of talent but
crazy enough to throw it all away.

On the whole though, we agree. It all comes down to Brady & Belichick.

Regarding the OP, I know I could play a quarter.. lol.
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Had to look this up, because I don't follow Buff's players!!!!

Gilmore:

2015: "Gilmore was having a pro bowl season before he got hurt and missed the last 4 games."
2016: Gilmore was rated as the 6th best #1 Cb in the NFL.

Seriously, guys, this appears to be bending of the facts to fit a narrative. Gilmore was unknown because he played in BUFF, that doesn't mean he wasn't good. Is he better in NE? Of course, who wouldn't be.
 
mattjames2010

mattjames2010

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kskboys said:
Had to look this up, because I don't follow Buff's players!!!!

Gilmore:

2015: "Gilmore was having a pro bowl season before he got hurt and missed the last 4 games."
2016: Gilmore was rated as the 6th best #1 Cb in the NFL.

Seriously, guys, this appears to be bending of the facts to fit a narrative. Gilmore was unknown because he played in BUFF, that doesn't mean he wasn't good. Is he better in NE? Of course, who wouldn't be.
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Where are you getting 2015 and 2016?

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-top-25-nfl-cornerbacks-this-season

This is PFFs list from 2016 through November - so are you saying he suddenly became the best corner in December to go from outside the top 25 to the top 10?

I'm starting to notice a trend that you exaggerate. Also, Gilmore was not "unknown" - he was top 10 first rounder in 2012. People knew him and were disappointed with his play in buffalo...which is why they let him walk.

Also, he wasn't very good last year with the Pats, this was his best season of his career by far. Again, under Bill.
 
RoboQB

RoboQB

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kskboys said:
Had to look this up, because I don't follow Buff's players!!!!

Gilmore:

2015: "Gilmore was having a pro bowl season before he got hurt and missed the last 4 games."
2016: Gilmore was rated as the 6th best #1 Cb in the NFL.

Seriously, guys, this appears to be bending of the facts to fit a narrative. Gilmore was unknown because he played in BUFF, that doesn't mean he wasn't good. Is he better in NE? Of course, who wouldn't be.
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I retract. I should've said he was a good corner that Belichick turned into a top guy.
 
TheHerd

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kskboys said:
Not JAG's: Hightower, Gronk, Edelmann, Michel, Van Noy, Flowers, Brown, Gilmore, McCourty, McCourty, James White, and all of their OL's.

That's a whole pile of topnotch players.
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Honestly, without Jerry's bottle, who from the Cowboys would start on the Pats? There's a few, but not many.
 
LACowboysFan1

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mattjames2010 said:
Hightower may have had some good years in the NFL - he's nowhere near that now, but he's spent his entire career in New England. Same with McCourty. Again, they are playing with Bill - and yet again, nearly everyone who ends up under him seems to play better than where they were before.

The thing about the Patriots is, they typically take good players and put them in the best possible position they can be in - especially when it comes to scheme. it gets the best out of them. Patriots are rarely made up of stud players, they are a team made up of good players and quality depth and genius coaching/Elite QB play. Because of this, Pats rarely ever hit cap hell and even can miss out on draft picks and still succeed.
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Yes, and do people realize they have TWO draft choices before we get our first?

:mad:
 

kskboys

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mattjames2010 said:
Where are you getting 2015 and 2016?

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-top-25-nfl-cornerbacks-this-season

This is PFFs list from 2016 through November - so are you saying he suddenly became the best corner in December to go from outside the top 25 to the top 10?

I'm starting to notice a trend that you exaggerate. Also, Gilmore was not "unknown" - he was top 10 first rounder in 2012. People knew him and were disappointed with his play in buffalo...which is why they let him walk.

Also, he wasn't very good last year with the Pats, this was his best season of his career by far. Again, under Bill.
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Dude, can you please stop w/ the stupid insults so we can have a discussion?

I've noticed a trend that you can't understand simple concepts. There, now I've thrown a stupid insult back at you. Seriously, dude, this is childish trash.

I have tons of reference material, mostly from scouting reports that I collect. The info I'm referring to is from my own files, which I've noticed are generally more accurate than PFF. I've seen quite a lot of inaccurate info dispersed by the PFF source.

By referring to Gilmore as "unknown", I was referring to the fact that many don't seem to be aware of him before his acquisition by NE.

Was Gilmore bad in 17? Here's what the experts said: "After a slow start, began to show why he was paid all that money in FA last year."

That's one of my problems w/ PFF, they didn't pick up on the fact that he started slowly, but improved. And the ratings that I have show him as the 5th rated CB in the NFL at the preseaon 2017 mark.

Does Belly make players better? Absolutely. Does he take players who suck and turn them into all pro's? No.

If you look at this objectively, Matt, you'll clearly see that what's being grossly exaggerated is the lack of talent on the Pats. The Pats are loaded.
 
mattjames2010

mattjames2010

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kskboys said:
Dude, can you please stop w/ the stupid insults so we can have a discussion?

I've noticed a trend that you can't understand simple concepts. There, now I've thrown a stupid insult back at you. Seriously, dude, this is childish trash.

I have tons of reference material, mostly from scouting reports that I collect. The info I'm referring to is from my own files, which I've noticed are generally more accurate than PFF. I've seen quite a lot of inaccurate info dispersed by the PFF source.

By referring to Gilmore as "unknown", I was referring to the fact that many don't seem to be aware of him before his acquisition by NE.

Was Gilmore bad in 17? Here's what the experts said: "After a slow start, began to show why he was paid all that money in FA last year."

That's one of my problems w/ PFF, they didn't pick up on the fact that he started slowly, but improved. And the ratings that I have show him as the 5th rated CB in the NFL at the preseaon 2017 mark.

Does Belly make players better? Absolutely. Does he take players who suck and turn them into all pro's? No.

If you look at this objectively, Matt, you'll clearly see that what's being grossly exaggerated is the lack of talent on the Pats. The Pats are loaded.
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Whether Gilmore "improved" in 2017 doesn't take away that, as a whole, his season was simply not good. And I asked for a source on him being a top 10 corner, ever, before getting to the Pats.
 
Captain43Crash

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TheHerd said:
Honestly, without Jerry's bottle, who from the Cowboys would start on the Pats? There's a few, but not many.
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At least half our starters are talented enough to start for NE. There is WAY more than a few!

They have Belicheat. He plays chess, while the rest of the league plays checkers, well Garrett plays tic tac toe.
 
TheHerd

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Captain43Crash said:
At least half our starters are talented enough to start for NE. There is WAY more than a few!

They have Belicheat. He plays chess, while the rest of the league plays checkers, well Garrett plays tic tac toe.
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I totally agree on Hoodie, but do you think that about the players? I don't. On offense only Zeke, Amari, Tyron, and Zack would start if I were choosing.
On D, DLaw, LVE and Jaylon. That's it if you match one for one. For instance, Byron is better than their #2 CB, but he ain't better than their #1.

I think we way overestimate our guys. Oh yeah, and LP. He's a lock.
 
Captain43Crash

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TheHerd said:
I totally agree on Hoodie, but do you think that about the players? I don't. On offense only Zeke, Amari, Tyron, and Zack would start if I were choosing.
On D, DLaw, LVE and Jaylon. That's it if you match one for one. For instance, Byron is better than their #2 CB, but he ain't better than their #1.

I think we way overestimate our guys. Oh yeah, and LP. He's a lock.
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I think you way overestimate NE’s talent, especially their defensive talent. NE’s DB’s are the strength of their D. Byron Jones would be the only starter in their defensive backfield, but LVE and Jaylon could start at LBer, actually LEE when healthy, has been the best LBer for either team. On our D line all are starters: Lawrence, Gregory, Woods, and Collins are as talented as the starters on their D line.
On offense I agree with you except I would add Gallop. The only receiver on NE better than Gallop is Edelman. Also, our starting Center, when healthy, is way better than their center.

Belicheat makes a huge difference. His defensive game plan with a bunch of average to above average players dominated the #2 Offense in the NFL in the Super Bowl.
 
Birch_Wood

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In N.E. (11) Superbowl appearances did they always manage to have "great" players? With the cap, is that even possible.
 
Captain43Crash

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obidiah said:
In N.E. (11) Superbowl appearances did they always manage to have "great" players? With the cap, is that even possible.
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They had a very good team with great HC! They win the Super Bowl.

We have a very good team with a below average HC! We lose because of coaching in the divisional round.

Coaching Matters a lot and this Super Bowl was definent proof.
 

kskboys

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Captain43Crash said:
I think you way overestimate NE’s talent, especially their defensive talent. NE’s DB’s are the strength of their D. Byron Jones would be the only starter in their defensive backfield, but LVE and Jaylon could start at LBer, actually LEE when healthy, has been the best LBer for either team. On our D line all are starters: Lawrence, Gregory, Woods, and Collins are as talented as the starters on their D line.
On offense I agree with you except I would add Gallop. The only receiver on NE better than Gallop is Edelman. Also, our starting Center, when healthy, is way better than their center.

Belicheat makes a huge difference. His defensive game plan with a bunch of average to above average players dominated the #2 Offense in the NFL in the Super Bowl.
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Hightower is the best LB on both teams.
 

kskboys

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mattjames2010 said:
Whether Gilmore "improved" in 2017 doesn't take away that, as a whole, his season was simply not good. And I asked for a source on him being a top 10 corner, ever, before getting to the Pats.
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That's better!!!

Lindy's magazine lists him as the 5th best CB in the game before going to NE.
 
Captain43Crash

Captain43Crash

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kskboys said:
Hightower is the best LB on both teams.
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Hightower is excellent, but when Sean Lee was healthy he was better than Hightower. All Pro better! I quarantee you Belicheat would love to have Sean Lee on his team. Also, Hightower has been injury prone too.
 
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