Cowboys obliterated other teams in 2018 attendance

superonyx · Feb 22, 2019

ABQCOWBOY said:
What exactly is that film clip supposed to teach anybody? All it shows me is that all of this crap about Jerry wanting to win is just that, and on a side note, we've all seen that interview. If Jerry really wanted to win, he never would have let Jimmy walk out the door, which is the point I made earlier. Help me out here, what is it you see there that I don't? Jerry is about Jerry and everybody knows that. This piece isn't teaching anybody anything we all haven't known for 20+ years. You can't have it both ways. Either Jerry wants to win and if that's the case, then you do what you need to do to win, which is bring in a great GM. You can't say that Jerry wants to win if he still insists on doing it his way after all these years of failing. To me, that doesn't show a person that wants to win above all else.

I would also say that anybody who thinks that Money isn't the driving force behind Jerry is kidding themselves. You don't have to agree but posting stuff like this isn't going to do it. Again, we've all seen this before. Nothing new here and nothing that really changes my views on Jerry.

Thats why I said educate yourself. Its not my job to educate you.
People typically are not open to changing their minds. They form their initial opinion and then prefer to fight to defend why they are right over being objective and open to the scary idea that they are wrong.

ABQCOWBOY · Feb 22, 2019

Future said:
Well the point is that fans have always shown up. They were pretty much near capacity under Campo, too.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2001/attendance.htm

I agree, that is the point but so what? The central issue is that, Jerry has not had to face a situation in which he had to make decision that would allow the team to win, regardless, since the early days when he bought the team. At that time, because of the idiotic way he handled the purchase and the firing of Coach Landry, he has only ever been in a situation in which there is no pressure to win, financially. Your point actually kinda helps me make mine, after a fashion, Future. Consider, would Jerry have ever made the FA decisions that he did, in the late 90s and early 2000s that wrecked our team? Would he ever have hired Campo in the first place if he knew he had to win? Would he ever have hired Garrett and promoted him to our HC, with so very little experience as a Coach in the NFL, if it meant he had to keep the Cowboys alive? Would he ever have fired Jimmy at all? In a way, if you really look at it, Jerry has been able to do all of these things because he has been in a situation where he never feared any of the repercussions of such decision. At least from the fan base. He only had to worry about the other owners and his creditors but because the fan base has always supported the Cowboys, the creditors have never really been a major concern. I mean, I understand what you are saying here but if you drill down a little further, would Jerry have ever done any of this if he were really, truly concerned with winning?

I believe that Jerry wants to win but I don't believe that he feels like he has to win and I know that financially, he has not been in a position to have to win and that is why he makes so many questionable decision in certain situations.

That's just my opinion Future.

Future · Feb 22, 2019

ABQCOWBOY said:
I agree, that is the point but so what? The central issue is that, Jerry has not had to face a situation in which he had to make decision that would allow the team to win, regardless, since the early days when he bought the team. At that time, because of the idiotic way he handled the purchase and the firing of Coach Landry, he has only ever been in a situation in which there is no pressure to win, financially. Your point actually kinda helps me make mine, after a fashion, Future. Consider, would Jerry have ever made the FA decisions that he did, in the late 90s and early 2000s that wrecked our team? Would he ever have hired Campo in the first place if he knew he had to win? Would he ever have hired Garrett and promoted him to our HC, with so very little experience as a Coach in the NFL, if it meant he had to keep the Cowboys alive? Would he ever have fired Jimmy at all? In a way, if you really look at it, Jerry has been able to do all of these things because he has been in a situation where he never feared any of the repercussions of such decision. At least from the fan base. He only had to worry about the other owners and his creditors but because the fan base has always supported the Cowboys, the creditors have never really been a major concern. I mean, I understand what you are saying here but if you drill down a little further, would Jerry have ever done any of this if he were really, truly concerned with winning?

I believe that Jerry wants to win but I don't believe that he feels like he has to win and I know that financially, he has not been in a position to have to win and that is why he makes so many questionable decision in certain situations.

That's just my opinion Future.

Well yes, I agree that Jerry doesn't care about winning as much as money - every owner is like that.

My point is just that there's no correlation between attendance and coaching changes. Jerry has always changed coaches when the team was bad...or the coach quit lol. So there's no reason to think that attendance does or doesn't make JG's job safer.

ABQCOWBOY · Feb 22, 2019

LatinMind said:
That’s a a lot to thinking of that situation. I don’t but it was the defensive players who were doing most of talking in that Phillips firing yr. so I don’t see how Garrett would control that.

That team was full of entitled guys esp on defense.

Also I don’t think Jerry is the same owner he was back then. I seem as a better more informed owner who has guys around him that give him information that’s the majority. Not where coaches and scouts battling on who is right and who is wrong.

One thing you’re right on is Jerry believes on Garrett then I think any coach he’s ever had. I like the attitude he teaches the team, I just think they haven’t had the right assistants around him. I really think this team lost a lot when Callahan left. But I think they got it right with Richards. Now we get to see what they got in Moore. I will say he seems to have a good rep in the n coaching circle as a lot of media have said coaches like him.

I would agree that Jerry has gotten better, I mean, it's been 25 years of on the job training so I would hope that he gets better but still, if he were truly serious about winning, he would hire a real GM. A real GM would have ended this experiment with Garrett long ago and brought in a better coaching staff. This is the real downfall to me. I get that we have not had the best cast of supporting staff in place but think about this now, great coaches don't need to bring in great talent around them, per say. Great coaches teach guys to be great coaches in their own right and then those coaches move on to make names for themselves. Great coaches create a tree. Does Garrett have any kind of history along those lines? Also, think about it this way, Linehan was Garrett's guy. Jerry and Steven wanted to fire him last year and again this year but Garrett wanted him, or so the story goes. This is an example of the problem, to me. I never liked Linehan, going back to his days in Detroit. I saw what he did to that team offensively. But, because Jerry is the GM, he got the job and because Jerry is the GM, he was kept because Jerry wanted to keep Garrett happy. A good GM doesn't allow that. A good GM makes decisions that help the HC and the team get better regardless. That's the GMs job IMO. I realize this is somewhat circular but I just see it this way. Like many, I've watched this team the entire time Jerry has owned it and I've had a lot of opportunity to see how things work. This is not proof that I am correct but it does mean that I've studied this entire process for a long time, like many of us have.

That's just what I've witnessed and what I believe

ABQCOWBOY · Feb 22, 2019

superonyx said:
Thats why I said educate yourself. Its not my job to educate you.
People typically are not open to changing their minds. They form their initial opinion and then prefer to fight to defend why they are right over being objective and open to the scary idea that they are wrong.

Haha..... This guy is still here.

ABQCOWBOY · Feb 22, 2019

Future said:
Well yes, I agree that Jerry doesn't care about winning as much as money - every owner is like that.

My point is just that there's no correlation between attendance and coaching changes. Jerry has always changed coaches when the team was bad...or the coach quit lol. So there's no reason to think that attendance does or doesn't make JG's job safer.

That's not the point Future. The point is that other organizations do not run the way the Cowboys do. Not winning means less profitability, which means changes in coaching. Because the Cowboys do not suffer from this same situations, they are not forced to run under the same set of rules, so to speak. None of this would fly with other teams, IMO.

DandyDon1722 · Feb 22, 2019

Cowboys22 said:
I stopped when they gave Romo $100 million after losing 3 straight lose and go home games. I love Romo but thought it was time to move on instead of giving him a big deal.

Yeah he couldn't cover a pass to save his life, he just never looked back at the ball, he was a little better at safety, but that's not saying much, then remember how he got abused at right guard, and don't even get me started on his pass rush, he absolutely sucked. He could not get us off the field when we needed stops.

Hard to argue, no way did he deserve a big contract after losing three straight lose and go home games.

Look - I know you like him. I'm sure, like all of us you were emotional in those years. Now having perspective, his position is most important but it is the ultimate team game and the games Tony won made 4-12 teams 8-8. We were never any better than that, especially on defense.

As Jerry said, his biggest regret as the owner of the team was not giving him the help he needed.

LatinMind · Feb 22, 2019

ABQCOWBOY said:
I would agree that Jerry has gotten better, I mean, it's been 25 years of on the job training so I would hope that he gets better but still, if he were truly serious about winning, he would hire a real GM. A real GM would have ended this experiment with Garrett long ago and brought in a better coaching staff. This is the real downfall to me. I get that we have not had the best cast of supporting staff in place but think about this now, great coaches don't need to bring in great talent around them, per say. Great coaches teach guys to be great coaches in their own right and then those coaches move on to make names for themselves. Great coaches create a tree. Does Garrett have any kind of history along those lines? Also, think about it this way, Linehan was Garrett's guy. Jerry and Steven wanted to fire him last year and again this year but Garrett wanted him, or so the story goes. This is an example of the problem, to me. I never liked Linehan, going back to his days in Detroit. I saw what he did to that team offensively. But, because Jerry is the GM, he got the job and because Jerry is the GM, he was kept because Jerry wanted to keep Garrett happy. A good GM doesn't allow that. A good GM makes decisions that help the HC and the team get better regardless. That's the GMs job IMO. I realize this is somewhat circular but I just see it this way. Like many, I've watched this team the entire time Jerry has owned it and I've had a lot of opportunity to see how things work. This is not proof that I am correct but it does mean that I've studied this entire process for a long time, like many of us have.

That's just what I've witnessed and what I believe

Agree with this. But there have been time that Jerry has put together winners, players just didn’t get it done. IMO 2007 and 2014, 2016 had legit shots at a Super Bowl. 2007 the players just laid a egg. 2014 a lot of people say the dez non catch, but there was still 5 mins on the clock. 2016 the refs robbed them plain and simple with the non call on Irving. That play literally won the game for the packers.

So there have been chances to get another super bowl.

With how this team finished the the yr on offense, if they can get a healthy ol back in 2019 and either another wr or te for the offense and either a improved 3tech or a stud safety. I think this puts the pressure squarely on the coaching staff to get this done or they’re gone.

ABQCOWBOY · Feb 22, 2019

DandyDon1722 said:
As Jerry said, his biggest regret as the owner of the team was not giving him the help he needed.

That's interesting. Not that anybody asked me Don, but to me, his answer should have been, that he never brought in a GM who could have made the necessary changes needed and provided Tony and the rest of the team with the help needed.

LatinMind · Feb 22, 2019

Future · Feb 22, 2019

ABQCOWBOY said:
That's not the point Future. The point is that other organizations do not run the way the Cowboys do. Not winning means less profitability, which means changes in coaching. Because the Cowboys do not suffer from this same situations, they are not forced to run under the same set of rules, so to speak. None of this would fly with other teams, IMO.

There's just no correlation between winning and profit, especially as it relates to coaching. All organizations run like the Cowboys - profit first, with profit not dependent on ticket sales.

Ticket sales, the primary item impacted by a team's success, aren't a driver of profitability. The TV revenue for the league is over $7b, giving each team ~$226m. If a team averages 75,000 fans at $120 a ticket 10 times, that's only $72m, which is extremely high at over 30% of TV revenue. It's more likely that a team averages 65,000 fans at $110, for 8 games, for $57m. That extra $15m doesn't influence coaching changes, as it's only a small percentage of operating budget. Average ticket sales as a % of revenue is less than 20% and steadily dropping.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/193364/percentage-of-ticketing-revenue-in-the-nfl-since-2006/

Dallas actually ranked 27th in terms of capacity, this year. So it's not like they're maximizing ticket profits anyways. Jerry doesn't care about the revenue from the additional 9% attendance, nor would any other NFL owner.
http://www.espn.com/nfl/attendance/_/sort/homePct

ABQCOWBOY · Feb 22, 2019

LatinMind said:
Agree with this. But there have been time that Jerry has put together winners, players just didn’t get it done. IMO 2007 and 2014, 2016 had legit shots at a Super Bowl. 2007 the players just laid a egg. 2014 a lot of people say the dez non catch, but there was still 5 mins on the clock. 2016 the refs robbed them plain and simple with the non call on Irving. That play literally won the game for the packers.

So there have been chances to get another super bowl.

With how this team finished the the yr on offense, if they can get a healthy ol back in 2019 and either another we or te for the offense and either a improved 3tech or a stud safety. I think this puts the pressure squarely on the coaching staff to get this done or they’re gone.

Perhaps, but think about this, 2007 under Wade Phillips, two playoff seasons and one 9-7 season and Jerry fired him mid season of the next year. 2013, we got screwed but I don't know if we would have won that game regardless. I like to think we would have but I can't say we were good enough. Heck, I don't even think that call was why we lost. 2016, we had the game and we couldn't stop Rodgers on a 4th and forever. I mean, I can't really say we were good enough if we could stop GB on that 4th down. Doesn't really matter I suppose. I understand you point but I look at Jerry and what he did with Phillips and then I look at what he's done with Garrett and it's really hard for me to reconcile those two situations.

ABQCOWBOY · Feb 22, 2019

Future said:
There's just no correlation between winning and profit, especially as it relates to coaching. All organizations run like the Cowboys - profit first, with profit not dependent on ticket sales.

Ticket sales, the primary item impacted by a team's success, aren't a driver of profitability. The TV revenue for the league is over $7b, giving each team ~$226m. If a team averages 75,000 fans at $120 a ticket 10 times, that's only $72m, which is extremely high at over 30% of TV revenue. It's more likely that a team averages 65,000 fans at $110, for 8 games, for $57m. That extra $15m doesn't influence coaching changes, as it's only a small percentage of operating budget. Average ticket sales as a % of revenue is less than 20% and steadily dropping.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/193364/percentage-of-ticketing-revenue-in-the-nfl-since-2006/

Dallas actually ranked 27th in terms of capacity, this year. So it's not like they're maximizing ticket profits anyways. Jerry doesn't care about the revenue from the additional 9% attendance, nor would any other NFL owner.
http://www.espn.com/nfl/attendance/_/sort/homePct

I think you are putting words in my mouth here. I never said that ticket sales, alone, were the reason. I actually articulated the fact that profitability was made of up TV revenue, ticket sales and merchandise sales. Those also drive audience. When people stop tuning in to watch teams play, that's a problem and that drives coaching changes.

We just don't agree here.

Future · Feb 22, 2019

ABQCOWBOY said:
I think you are putting words in my mouth here. I never said that ticket sales, alone, were the reason. I actually articulated the fact that profitability was made of up TV revenue, ticket sales and merchandise sales. Those also drive audience. When people stop tuning in to watch teams play, that's a problem and that drives coaching changes.

We just don't agree here.

The first post I responded to was about attendance.

My point is that fans don't do anything differently - other than go to the games or not - because a team is winning or losing. We all watch the Cowboys when they suck, we all watch them when they're good. We all buy jerseys when they suck, we all buy jerseys when they're good. It's the same for every NFL team. Going 4-12 or 12-4 doesn't influence the bottom line enough to cause any changes.

Bobhaze · Feb 22, 2019

I look forward to the day when attendance, jersey sales and “most valuable sports franchise” are no longer the yearly talking points for our accomplishments. I look forward to the day when playoff wins lead the discussion.

ABQCOWBOY · Feb 22, 2019

Future said:
The first post I responded to was about attendance.

My point is that fans don't do anything differently - other than go to the games or not - because a team is winning or losing. We all watch the Cowboys when they suck, we all watch them when they're good. We all buy jerseys when they suck, we all buy jerseys when they're good. It's the same for every NFL team. Going 4-12 or 12-4 doesn't influence the bottom line enough to cause any changes.

I can not speak for what post you responded to first. I can only explain the posts I've made in this thread. Your entire point of fan participation is not accurate. I've seen when teams stop buying and stop watching and stop going to games. That does happen. There is a reason that L.A. has lost multiple teams over the last several years. I think it's a mistake to think that fan bases will care no matter what but if that's your opinion, that's fine with me. I don't agree with it though.

LatinMind · Feb 22, 2019

ABQCOWBOY said:
Perhaps, but think about this, 2007 under Wade Phillips, two playoff seasons and one 9-7 season and Jerry fired him mid season of the next year. 2013, we got screwed but I don't know if we would have won that game regardless. I like to think we would have but I can't say we were good enough. Heck, I don't even think that call was why we lost. 2016, we had the game and we couldn't stop Rodgers on a 4th and forever. I mean, I can't really say we were good enough if we could stop GB on that 4th down. Doesn't really matter I suppose. I understand you point but I look at Jerry and what he did with Phillips and then I look at what he's done with Garrett and it's really hard for me to reconcile those two situations.

Irving was held by 2 gb players. Right in front of a ref. It was already 4th and forever. 10 yards back I don’t think they have the time to make that throw with refs looking for a hold. Atl coach made the refs look at it the following week by putting it in the news. Rogers was running for his life in the NFCCgame.

ABQCOWBOY · Feb 22, 2019

Bobhaze said:
I look forward to the day when attendance, jersey sales and “most valuable sports franchise” are no longer the yearly talking points for our accomplishments. I look forward to the day when playoff wins lead the discussion.

Well said.

ABQCOWBOY · Feb 22, 2019

LatinMind said:
Irving was held by 2 gb players. Right in front of a ref. It was already 4th and forever. 10 yards back I don’t think they have the time to make that throw with refs looking for a hold. Atl coach made the refs look at it the following week by putting it in the news. Rogers was running for his life in the NFCCgame.

I don't understand the point of this post.

LatinMind · Feb 22, 2019

ABQCOWBOY said:
I don't understand the point of this post.

Ur reference to 2016 vs the packers.

Cowboys obliterated other teams in 2018 attendance

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