Stephen on Dak as a franchise quarterback

buybuydandavis · Apr 10, 2019

northerncowboynation said:
whoa back there cowboy. You're throwing $28mil around like it was a fact. Some were throwing $84mil around on guaranteed money for Tank. I'm not disagreeing with you but when did anyone from the organization say $28 mil and how much is "much less" than $28 mil. All I saw was a from SJ saying the team wanted to sign Dak to a "team friendly deal".

I think they did a decent job of that with Tank and there is no reason to believe they won't with Dak. Yes, SJ did say that Tanks "biggest contract ever signed" might not be the biggest for long. Remember Amari Cooper! And $23 mil is more than $22.5 mil . We're jumping off the deep end on something we know nothing about

28, 25, 23, I just don't see Dak being worth it, particularly once we've sunk tons of money into him and will be even more reticent to run him.

stiletto · Apr 10, 2019

I think it is sad people try to minimize what Dak has done his first couple of years given the fact he was a 4th round draft pick. What he's done is very rare. He isn't perfect, sure but he is pretty stone cold and he's got more of a Winner persona than Romo ever had and I really supported Romo for a lot of years. He's going to get paid a lot of money by the Jones family and he will probably be under center for the Cowboys for a long time barring injury. People need to get over it.

5 of the 7 QB's taken before him are almost out of the league. So I think that is a stat that says something pretty good about the guy.

northerncowboynation · Apr 10, 2019

buybuydandavis said:
28, 25, 23, I just don't see Dak being worth it, particularly once we've sunk tons of money into him and will be even more reticent to run him.

Ahh, so we pay him on the cheap and expect him to throw his body around like a sack of turnips. You know what I mean, expect him to run more. Maybe and I sort of see your point but if I'm Prescott, which I'm clearly not, if you pay me on the cheap and less than I think I'm worth I'm gonna give you cheap. Cheap isn't good and good isn't cheap.

I suppose we could wait and franchise tag him but we did that with Tank and probably ended up paying more. And yeah, we tagged Tank for a "prove it again year" after the first two years of injuries. Prescott has played all 48 games and for the most part played well. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder I suppose

buybuydandavis · Apr 10, 2019

Sydla said:
If you could sign Dak for like $17-20MM, I'd be much more willing to accept that.

But the logic that you can pay him Top 3 money now because he'll be cheaper in the future is bizarre and *** backwards. That's how you end up with bad contracts eating up cap space.

He's not a Top 5 QB and therefore you shouldn't sign him to a Top 5 contract. It's just that simple.

It's not bizarre. It's standard to frontload contracts this way. He'll only be top 5 because the contract scale escalates every year but only a minority of contracts are renegotiated to that scale. As it escalates in the coming years, his contract will drop in ranking. When you frontload, you get the value contract years on the back end.

It's fair to argue with the frontloading generally. I expect that's players wanting to lock in money versus health risk. Ignoring risk, the natural contracts would scale up over the years with the projected increases in the wage scale.

buybuydandavis · Apr 10, 2019

stiletto said:
I think it is sad people try to minimize what Dak has done his first couple of years given the fact he was a 4th round draft pick. What he's done is very rare. He isn't perfect, sure but he is pretty stone cold and he's got more of a Winner persona than Romo ever had and I really supported Romo for a lot of years.

It should be a red flag to everyone that when people defend Dak's value, it's never about his *individual skills* as a QB. It's either team record or personality.

buybuydandavis · Apr 10, 2019

northerncowboynation said:
Ahh, so we pay him on the cheap and expect him to throw his body around like a sack of turnips. You know what I mean, expect him to run more. Maybe and I sort of see your point but if I'm Prescott, which I'm clearly not, if you pay me on the cheap and less than I think I'm worth I'm gonna give you cheap. Cheap isn't good and good isn't cheap.

I suppose we could wait and franchise tag him but we did that with Tank and probably ended up paying more. And yeah, we tagged Tank for a "prove it again year" after the first two years of injuries. Prescott has played all 48 games and for the most part played well. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder I suppose

No, we won't expect him to throw his body around. That's the problem. That's part of his value now, which we don't use enough, and will likely use even less once we've sunk money into him. A non-running Dak is just a poor pocket passer. Tough and durable poor pocket passer. But still a poor pocket passer.

As for Dak, someone in the NFL will pay him. Lots of average QBs get paid a lot more than they're worth. That's the market now. So that's what he should demand,

But I don't agree with the market on this. The market is overpaying average QBs. I wish the Cowboys wouldn't make the same mistake, but it looks like they're determined to.

stiletto · Apr 10, 2019

buybuydandavis said:
It should be a red flag to everyone that when people defend Dak's value, it's never about his *individual skills* as a QB. It's either team record or personality.

You mean you value the Jeff George "Skills" over the other two? I see.... Count me as valuing the other two slightly higher at the end of the day when combined...

CowboyRoy · Apr 10, 2019

Hawkeye0202 said:
Actually, it is when you consider alternate Pro Bowl selections are made by coaches and he was chosen over what 20-22 other QBs.

Made the pro bowl his rookie year as well. How many QB's have made the pro bowl two out of their first 3 years? Small list in NFL history.

Combined with his other impressive accomplishments, its quite a resume for a 3rd year QB.

silver · Apr 10, 2019

I don't understand all the hate Dak gets. The same way I didn't understand all the hate Tony got. As if you're/were paying his salary. I'm just happy we found a QB in 2016. Happy he gets to have a career here. Hopefully he'll win a Super Bowl too.

1LoyalCowboyFan · Apr 10, 2019

Second contract QBs gets second contract money. Jimmy G got 27.5 avg/year with 74 guaranteed. That’s your floor whether you like it or not. He’s not at his third contract so no Rodgers or M. Ryan money at 30. I think it’ll be right below or above Cousins at 28 avg with 84 guaranteed. Wilson will get more than Rodgers.

northerncowboynation · Apr 10, 2019

buybuydandavis said:
No, we won't expect him to throw his body around. That's the problem. That's part of his value now, which we don't use enough, and will likely use even less once we've sunk money into him. A non-running Dak is just a poor pocket passer. Tough and durable poor pocket passer. But still a poor pocket passer.

As for Dak, someone in the NFL will pay him. Lots of average QBs get paid a lot more than they're worth. That's the market now. So that's what he should demand,

But I don't agree with the market on this. The market is overpaying average QBs. I wish the Cowboys wouldn't make the same mistake, but it looks like they're determined to.

hey man, the players don't set the tag value. We're gonna pay Dak and then someone down the road may pay him more. Dak gonna be reeeeeech! More power to him I say

CowboyRoy · Apr 10, 2019

stiletto said:
I think it is sad people try to minimize what Dak has done his first couple of years given the fact he was a 4th round draft pick. What he's done is very rare. He isn't perfect, sure but he is pretty stone cold and he's got more of a Winner persona than Romo ever had and I really supported Romo for a lot of years. He's going to get paid a lot of money by the Jones family and he will probably be under center for the Cowboys for a long time barring injury. People need to get over it.

5 of the 7 QB's taken before him are almost out of the league. So I think that is a stat that says something pretty good about the guy.

There is obviously some people on here that just don't get it. To pawn Dak off as "an average qb" is a lazy and careless analysis. Not even worth discussing really.

Dak is an incredible young QB and only getting better. He will sign THIS season and be wrapped up for 5-7 years.

CowboyRoy · Apr 10, 2019

silver said:
I don't understand all the hate Dak gets. The same way I didn't understand all the hate Tony got. As if you're/were paying his salary. I'm just happy we found a QB in 2016. Happy he gets to have a career here. Hopefully he'll win a Super Bowl too.

These haters would rather tank for 3 years and hope we find a kid better than Dak. Its a pipe dream. Memory loss. They must have forgotten what it was like in between Aikman and Romo. They also forget how bad and desperate Jerry gets when trying to find one.

shabazz · Apr 10, 2019

glimmerman said:
Well D-Law isn’t the best DE and he got 20 million a year. Dak is going to get 25+ per year as a franchise QB..

He may get paid like one but he will never be one. Purely backup stock.

DuncanIso · Apr 10, 2019

Hawkeye0202 said:
This is what many of Dak's critics are struggling with. They see him as just a quarterback. The Jones see him as the Cowboys franchised quarterback.

That’s nice.

Dak still struggles throwing the football.

Could be a problem, don’t ya think?

shabazz · Apr 10, 2019

Qcard said:
Please list the 14 QBs in the NFL better than Dak?

Why don’t we just start with the 16 that finished ahead of him in QBR last year?

Now feel free to say the numbers lie and that the stats are haters.

buybuydandavis · Apr 10, 2019

northerncowboynation said:
hey man, the players don't set the tag value. We're gonna pay Dak and then someone down the road may pay him more. Dak gonna be reeeeeech! More power to him I say

I'm always for players making the most of the market. Murray, Beasley, Hitchens, it's great that they all scored. It's great when they don't score on us, and management's fault when they do, not the player's fault. It's their job to take money from the owners.

northerncowboynation · Apr 10, 2019

buybuydandavis said:
I'm always for players making the most of the market. Murray, Beasley, Hitchens, it's great that they all scored. It's great when they don't score on us, and management's fault when they do, not the player's fault. It's their job to take money from the owners.

Hey, it's a crazy short career. Nearly 20% are bankrupt within 5 years out of football. That won't be Prescott, he's a smart dude but some know nothing but the game. Wreck their knees, scrabble their brains, wreck their backs, pills to kill the pain, abusive relationships meh, have at it.

I surely don't blame the players for the escalating contracts, that's all on the owners. The owners live a long, fat life. I think we're on the same page here buybuy but I would add Prescott to Murray, Beasely and Hitchens.

Super_Kazuya · Apr 10, 2019

Hawkeye0202 said:
Actually, it is when you consider alternate Pro Bowl selections are made by coaches and he was chosen over what 20-22 other QBs.

Literally zero evidence for this. I heard that Matt Ryan had vacation plans so they called up Dak.

northerncowboynation · Apr 10, 2019

Super_Kazuya said:
Literally zero evidence for this. I heard that Matt Ryan had vacation plans so they called up Dak.

Twitter makes me happy and I believe every word of it? Tell it to Judge Judy and she'll say that's here say evidence. Better have proof when you talk to the Judge.

Stephen on Dak as a franchise quarterback

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