Taco in an alternate universe

Kage

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America's Cowboy said:
Oh really?

Let's see...

In their first 2 years as NFL players: QB sacks

1) Lawrence Taylor: 0 sacks (1981) & 7.5 sacks (1982). Total: 7.5 sacks
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/T/TaylLa00.htm

2) Charles Haley: 12 sacks (1986) & 6.5 sacks (1987). Total: 18.5 sacks
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/H/HaleCh00.htm

3) Demarcus Ware: 8 sacks (2005) & 11.5 sacks (2006). Total: 19.5 sacks
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WareDe99.htm

** TJ Watt: 7 sacks (2017) & 13 sacks (2018). Total: 20 sacks
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WattT.00.htm

As you can see, for their first 2 career years totals in sacks comparisons, TJ Watt is definitely in the same mold of a sack artist as the greats in Lawrence Taylor, Charles Haley and Demarcus Ware. TJ actually has a higher sack total than all 3 for their first 2 career years. The key for TJ Watt will be if he can keep it up and stay healthy. Time will tell.

On the other hand, it is soft Taco who definitely is not the same caliber of a player as those above. Not even close.
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America's Cowboy said:
You're not being fair if you truly want to compare. You have to go by what currently is available, not what you prefer it to be or not be. Sorry but currently, TJ is much more comparable during his first 2 years in the league, with them sack artists greats than soft Taco. That's just a fact. What hurts is that the front office dropped the ball again and made the wrong choice.
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So anyone who gets more than 0 sacks in the first year should be compared to LT?

Anyone with 8+ sacks combined in the first two years should be compared to LT?


Our very own Dorance Armstrong had .5 sacks last year. NEXT COMING OF LT!
 
dsturgeon

dsturgeon

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When they drafted taco, dlaw was not what he is today and dealing with injury, and Gregory had his issues. Their first round pick was not in the top 10, they drafted where they did. They had to address it, and they got who they thought was the best player available for their system.

Now dlaw has stepped up, they have Quinn, and maybe Gregory. Taco has not had to carry the load so far. He didn't beat out his competition.

He has been training, learning moves, growing into his body, and he is a valuable rotational guy. We can not go back in time. Learn to appreciate that we should have one of the top DE rotations in the league.
 
LACowboysFan1

LACowboysFan1

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America's Cowboy said:
Some people are slow to accept this fact. It's easier to limit a player's abilities, even though there is film to prove a player can play in more than one scheme and with a hand in the ground or standing up.
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Ware was a DE in college, but in the NFL he went to OLB.

Watt is listed at 6-4 and 252 lbs. Taco is listed at 6-6 and 275 lbs.

Yes players can play in different schemes but only if you put them in a scheme that suits their physical abilities. Just because you have talent doesn't mean they would succeed any place you put them. Darren Woodson played a lot of linebacker in college, but at Dallas he had to go to safety, at 219 lbs he was too light for an NFL linebacker.

If Watt was put at DE in the NFL he'd not be as successful as he's been at OLB, imo..
 

Trendnet

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Kage said:
So anyone who gets more than 0 sacks in the first year should be compared to LT?

Anyone with 8+ sacks combined in the first two years should be compared to LT?


Our very own Dorance Armstrong had .5 sacks last year. NEXT COMING OF LT!
Click to expand...


Taco Charlton had 3 sacks his rookie season. Seems like @America's Cowboy is arguing that Taco > LT.

Strange stance to take early in a player's career.
 
blueblood70

blueblood70

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JoeKing said:
Sounds like you are just in clinical denial that Taco was a 1st rd pick and to justify your denial you have invented excuses that explain why Taco hasn't earned his way on the starting lineup yet.
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stating facts is not making excuses..its all facts..theres time and when hes finally had his last chance and nothings improved we can revisit but right now , jury is still out.. no need to talk about some JSAG we already replaced with Quinn, Armstrong , and we have Crawford, all rotational alongside Tank..he can wither improve his attitude earn more quality snaps or play garbage time and get cut next off season..his choice
 
boysfaninMI

boysfaninMI

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Taco NO bueno. Quite the opposite actually. Simply put: He sucks.

Sure hope 'Alexander' is right and he's gone by Sunday night at the latest. Crappy pick from the get go. Dump him for a 5th or 6th if need be and free up the cap space.
 
America's Cowboy

America's Cowboy

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LACowboysFan1 said:
Ware was a DE in college, but in the NFL he went to OLB.

Watt is listed at 6-4 and 252 lbs. Taco is listed at 6-6 and 275 lbs.

Yes players can play in different schemes but only if you put them in a scheme that suits their physical abilities. Just because you have talent doesn't mean they would succeed any place you put them. Darren Woodson played a lot of linebacker in college, but at Dallas he had to go to safety, at 219 lbs he was too light for an NFL linebacker.

If Watt was put at DE in the NFL he'd not be as successful as he's been at OLB, imo..
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Have you watched film on Watt the past two years? He's been lined up as a DE on a 4 man base a majority of the time while sticking his hand in the ground half of that time.

Demarcus Ware was 6'4" and played at 260 pounds, only 8 pounds heavier than TJ Watt currently is. Charles Haley played at 255 pounds. Lawrence Taylor actually played at 240 pounds. All 3 played both DEs and Edge rushing OLB depending on scheme used. They had no problem with their weight or which scheme to play in. TJ Watt is proving he can do both. I would have rather had Watt who can play both schemes, than be severely limited to a one-scheme no-good-for-nothing costly 1st round bust in Taco. With the talented hybrid player, you can change defensive alignments at will to your advantage and be successful at it like Pittsburgh is now doing.
 
LACowboysFan1

LACowboysFan1

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America's Cowboy said:
Have you watched film on Watt the past two years? He's been lined up as a DE on a 4 man base a majority of the time while sticking his hand in the ground half of that time.

Demarcus Ware was 6'4" and played at 260 pounds, only 8 pounds heavier than TJ Watt currently is. Charles Haley played at 255 pounds. Lawrence Taylor actually played at 240 pounds. All 3 played both DEs and Edge rushing OLB depending on scheme used. They had no problem with their weight or which scheme to play in. TJ Watt is proving he can do both. I would have rather had Watt who can play both schemes, than be severely limited to a one-scheme no-good-for-nothing costly 1st round bust in Taco. With the talented hybrid player, you can change defensive alignments at will to your advantage and be successful at it like Pittsburgh is now doing.
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Taylor was a LB in the NFL. Ware played at OLB until his last year at Dallas, and when he went to Denver they put him back at LB. Just because a player has his "hand in the dirt" doesn't mean he's playing the prototypical DE position, with the hybrid defenses in the NFL these days guys often line up as a DE then drop off to play LB.

And playing DE all the time, taking on 300 lb OTs, will cause problems, they can't hold up at 252 lbs.

Not saying Watt can't play DE occasionally, but in a 4-3 the DE is greatly responsible for sealing the edge on run plays, and no way is a 252 lb guy going to be able to handle 300-plus pound OTs and pulling guards, he'll get blasted off the line.

If the Cowboys had Watt he'd be an OLB the vast majority of the time...
 
silvrNblue

silvrNblue

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Well, just wait and watch... ole Taco in my mind, will become a draft day casualty......we can only hope, hell another 3rd for him would be great this year without a 1st...
 
silvrNblue

silvrNblue

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LACowboysFan1 said:
Taylor was a LB in the NFL. Ware played at OLB until his last year at Dallas, and when he went to Denver they put him back at LB. Just because a player has his "hand in the dirt" doesn't mean he's playing the prototypical DE position, with the hybrid defenses in the NFL these days guys often line up as a DE then drop off to play LB.

And playing DE all the time, taking on 300 lb OTs, will cause problems, they can't hold up at 252 lbs.

Not saying Watt can't play DE occasionally, but in a 4-3 the DE is greatly responsible for sealing the edge on run plays, and no way is a 252 lb guy going to be able to handle 300-plus pound OTs and pulling guards, he'll get blasted off the line.

If the Cowboys had Watt he'd be an OLB the vast majority of the time...
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Aaaand that would STILL be better then the soft, half filled Taco we have ATM....
 
LACowboysFan1

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silvrNblue said:
Well, just wait and watch... ole Taco in my mind, will become a draft day casualty......we can only hope, hell another 3rd for him would be great this year without a 1st...
Click to expand...

The usual mantra is it takes 3 years to judge a draft choice, this is Taco's 3rd year, let's keep our fingers crossed that this is the year he "blossoms"...
 
silvrNblue

silvrNblue

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LACowboysFan1 said:
The usual mantra is it takes 3 years to judge a draft choice, this is Taco's 3rd year, let's keep our fingers crossed that this is the year he "blossoms"...
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He's a 1st round pick, in my mind, were he going to "blossom", that would have happened sooner, not later. I agree tho, you like to hope to hell they finally "get" it, but in that same mind set, I just don't think he will ever get past the kinks that where on him coming out of college, that being he's got the talent/skillz but is to lazy and lacadazial to go at 100% 4 qtrs.
 
eromeopolk

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People forget that Demarcus Lawrence did not have double digit sacks until his 4th season. He was injured and suspended 2 of his first 3 seasons. Remember the Landry/Parcells 3 year rule.
 
LACowboysFan1

LACowboysFan1

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silvrNblue said:
He's a 1st round pick, in my mind, were he going to "blossom", that would have happened sooner, not later. I agree tho, you like to hope to hell they finally "get" it, but in that same mind set, I just don't think he will ever get past the kinks that where on him coming out of college, that being he's got the talent/skillz but is to lazy and lacadazial to go at 100% 4 qtrs.
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As a first round pick he's expected to be more of a "star" than a later pick, sure, but many times the 3 year rule still applies. I agree that he should have done better, though...
 
America's Cowboy

America's Cowboy

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eromeopolk said:
People forget that Demarcus Lawrence did not have double digit sacks until his 4th season. He was injured and suspended 2 of his first 3 seasons. Remember the Landry/Parcells 3 year rule.
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Sorry but Taco is no D-Law . He for sure is no D-Ware . Not even in the same discussion .
 
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