Trysten Hill's character issues

Kaiser

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On the Trysten Hill pick I keep thinking about his “character issues” knocking his draft stock down. Clearly the issue was overrated and both current and former coaches have said there were no real problems.

Dane Brugler described the situation as “He was late buying in to the new coaching staff, scheme and responsibilities.”

I was wondering how many top DTs had some type of issue with coaches in college so I looked it up. Out of the 8 DTs (I didn’t include Aaron Donald) with 7 or more sacks last year, 5 of the 8 had issues in college as bad or worse than Trysten Hill.


This is the list:


Fletcher Cox, DT PHI 10.5 Sacks

Suspended one game his Junior Year, then declared early for the draft


Jarran Reed, DT SEA 10.5 Sacks


From Dane Brugler 2016 Scouting report:

off-field decision-making needs investigated due to his past, including a DUI arrest (July 2014) – admitted it was a “childish mistake” and was suspended for fall camp…


Geno Atkins, DT CIN 10 Sacks


From a random draft link –

Atkins is extremely talented, but there are legitimate concerns about his work ethic. In games he can dominate his matchup for an entire series, and then disappear the next time he's on the field. He's a boom-or-bust prospect. He could develop into a starter with the right coaching, but if he lands in the wrong situation he could get buried on the depth chart.


Cameron Heyward, DT PIT 8 Sacks


From Walterfootball link –

Highly inconsistent and can take some games off (not plays - whole games) He gets dominated by inferior competition and should be more dominant on a more consistent basis when you factor in his size, strength and talent.


Sheldon Rankins, DT NO 8 Sacks

No issues


Akiem Hicks, DT CHI 7.5 Sacks

Tried to transfer from a JC to LSU but “recruiting violations” kept him from playing there, went to Canada instead of Div I before playing in the NFL.


Matt Ioannidis, DT WSH 7.5 Sacks

Former walkon with no issues


Jurrell Casey, DT TEN 7 Sacks

No issues.
 

Alexander

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People use "character" as a broad term and it does not apply precisely to everything.

Most of the examples you showed were off-the-field criminal situations where the player showed bad judgment.

The closest that sounds like Hill is Atkins. But that was Walter Football you quoted. Not what I would consider reliable.

Atkins' report from Zuerlein:
STRENGTHS
Atkins has been a productive SEC defensive tackle. He plays with great intelligence and instincts and was a good student at Georgia as well. Plays with good motor and doesn?t stop till the whistle. Displays impressive quickness off the ball and good lateral agility in pursuit. Has impressive pass rushing ability for a defensive tackle.

Vastly different.
 

Cannibal_Cowboy

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On the Trysten Hill pick I keep thinking about his “character issues” knocking his draft stock down. Clearly the issue was overrated and both current and former coaches have said there were no real problems.

Dane Brugler described the situation as “He was late buying in to the new coaching staff, scheme and responsibilities.”

I was wondering how many top DTs had some type of issue with coaches in college so I looked it up. Out of the 8 DTs (I didn’t include Aaron Donald) with 7 or more sacks last year, 5 of the 8 had issues in college as bad or worse than Trysten Hill.


This is the list:


Fletcher Cox, DT PHI 10.5 Sacks

Suspended one game his Junior Year, then declared early for the draft


Jarran Reed, DT SEA 10.5 Sacks


From Dane Brugler 2016 Scouting report:

off-field decision-making needs investigated due to his past, including a DUI arrest (July 2014) – admitted it was a “childish mistake” and was suspended for fall camp…


Geno Atkins, DT CIN 10 Sacks


From a random draft link –

Atkins is extremely talented, but there are legitimate concerns about his work ethic. In games he can dominate his matchup for an entire series, and then disappear the next time he's on the field. He's a boom-or-bust prospect. He could develop into a starter with the right coaching, but if he lands in the wrong situation he could get buried on the depth chart.


Cameron Heyward, DT PIT 8 Sacks


From Walterfootball link –

Highly inconsistent and can take some games off (not plays - whole games) He gets dominated by inferior competition and should be more dominant on a more consistent basis when you factor in his size, strength and talent.


Sheldon Rankins, DT NO 8 Sacks

No issues


Akiem Hicks, DT CHI 7.5 Sacks

Tried to transfer from a JC to LSU but “recruiting violations” kept him from playing there, went to Canada instead of Div I before playing in the NFL.


Matt Ioannidis, DT WSH 7.5 Sacks

Former walkon with no issues


Jurrell Casey, DT TEN 7 Sacks

No issues.
*Yawn*
Not another "Hill was a great pick and not a bad guy" thread...how many more of these can this forum take???

Ok, he's Rod's pick and now his baby. It's up to Rod to keep him in line and get him to play to his ability.

If not, Rod can get the ***** out of Dallas and never come back.
 

eromeopolk

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People use "character" as a broad term and it does not apply precisely to everything.

Most of the examples you showed were off-the-field criminal situations where the player showed bad judgment.

The closest that sounds like Hill is Atkins. But that was Walter Football you quoted. Not what I would consider reliable.

Atkins' report from Zuerlein:
STRENGTHS
Atkins has been a productive SEC defensive tackle. He plays with great intelligence and instincts and was a good student at Georgia as well. Plays with good motor and doesn?t stop till the whistle. Displays impressive quickness off the ball and good lateral agility in pursuit. Has impressive pass rushing ability for a defensive tackle.

Vastly different.
Every time I hear Character Issues causing indecision on drafting or signing a talented player...I yell at the person I am stating that I am right 2 words....
RANDY MOSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

DBOY3141

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Every time I hear Character Issues causing indecision on drafting or signing a talented player...I yell at the person I am stating that I am right 2 words....
RANDY MOSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The last guy we took with character issues in college where he was suspended 2 or 3 times from his team was.....DLaw. That kind of worked out. I'll be pulling for him. It's not like he is a stoner, wife beater or kid beater.
 

Macnalty

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He is not in the Randy Gregory tier but he should not be trusted until he earns a trust. Some guys are going to connect with the Rod M philosophy and coaching style lets keep our fingers crossed he is one of those that flourishes.
 

Sydla

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If we skipped him people would complain we could have taken him. Take a RKG and they want some one with a mean streak. Take hill the best DT on your board after years of most fans wanting a DT and then those same people complain.

I don't know, based on the various posts on the draft board leading up to the draft, the idea of Hill at 58 was not met with a lot of applause. In fact, when the rumors started late last week that Hill could be our target at 58, the majority of opinions seemed to be prior to the pick that they hoped Dallas wouldn't go in that direction.

Yes, people wanted the Cowboys to draft some DTs. But not just any old DT. Like if I wanted the Cowboys to spend more capital at WR and then they took a 6th round graded WR at 58, that wouldn't actually satisfy my desire, right?
 

Sydla

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It’s football. Many players are alpha-males with a character flaws of some sort.

Don’t think this will be David Irving 2.0

I’m excited for the kid. FTW!

Oh he's not David Irving.

But I worry he's Taco Charlton......... the talented kid that sometimes has some motivational issues and simply never matches the mindset needed to go with his high level talents.
 

Kaiser

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Every time I hear Character Issues causing indecision on drafting or signing a talented player...I yell at the person I am stating that I am right 2 words....
RANDY MOSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That is a good example, because Moss actually did have character issues but this production outweighed the downside.

Also in terms of the Cowboys, the draft with Moss was right after the Dallas "White House" scandal. Instead of going to a small market in Minnesota with a good support system, Moss would have gone into a meat grinder with reporters chasing him daily and digging through his trash can. Who knows what would have happened, but Dallas did have valid reasons to pass on him for a need position.
 

Alexander

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Oh he's not David Irving.

But I worry he's Taco Charlton......... the talented kid that sometimes has some motivational issues and simply never matches the mindset needed to go with his high level talents.
I actually think his potential is better than Charlton's was. Big if though.

But remember the bad attitude from Charlton popped up big time just this past year.

Should have the answer soon. If he goes games as a healthy scratch, something is up.
 

jazzcat22

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*Yawn*
Not another "Hill was a great pick and not a bad guy" thread...how many more of these can this forum take???

Ok, he's Rod's pick and now his baby. It's up to Rod to keep him in line and get him to play to his ability.

If not, Rod can get the ***** out of Dallas and never come back.

Better than another Hill / Team sucks thread.
 

jazzcat22

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People use "character" as a broad term and it does not apply precisely to everything.

Most of the examples you showed were off-the-field criminal situations where the player showed bad judgment.

The closest that sounds like Hill is Atkins. But that was Walter Football you quoted. Not what I would consider reliable.

Atkins' report from Zuerlein:
STRENGTHS
Atkins has been a productive SEC defensive tackle. He plays with great intelligence and instincts and was a good student at Georgia as well. Plays with good motor and doesn?t stop till the whistle. Displays impressive quickness off the ball and good lateral agility in pursuit. Has impressive pass rushing ability for a defensive tackle.

Vastly different.

So what makes your resource any better or more correct than another?
Not being "contrite" as Jerry would say, as I have no opinion of one site over the other.
Just asking for friend. :laugh:
 

charron

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I don't know, based on the various posts on the draft board leading up to the draft, the idea of Hill at 58 was not met with a lot of applause. In fact, when the rumors started late last week that Hill could be our target at 58, the majority of opinions seemed to be prior to the pick that they hoped Dallas wouldn't go in that direction.

Yes, people wanted the Cowboys to draft some DTs. But not just any old DT. Like if I wanted the Cowboys to spend more capital at WR and then they took a 6th round graded WR at 58, that wouldn't actually satisfy my desire, right?


Most of us also like big 1T DT too but that's not what they like and they had hill rated higher. I think most had his talent at 2-3 but didn't like his personality or whatever but rod felt comfortable. Heard even Richard said to draft him over safety. I thought for sure we grab a safety in the 3rd, or 4th at worst but clearly we are all wrong. I'm glad we took a DT, didn't think it would be hill but I trust their board over any fans.
 

G2

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I actually think his potential is better than Charlton's was. Big if though.

But remember the bad attitude from Charlton popped up big time just this past year.

Should have the answer soon. If he goes games as a healthy scratch, something is up.
You mean when he had to have shoulder surgery?
 

Shake_Tiller

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Hill plays with a high motor, according to various reports, so that is a positive sign. You'd like to think that every player adjusts well to new coaching/scheme, but that isn't the case. Hill seems to be the kind of guy you wouldn't have the opportunity to draft at 58 if there weren't some questions. And we don't know how legitimate those questions are. We'll have to see. Marinelli has gotten decent results with lesser talents. He has an opportunity here to get strong results from a gifted player. I'm cautiously optimistic.
 

MichaelWinicki

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I actually think his potential is better than Charlton's was. Big if though.

But remember the bad attitude from Charlton popped up big time just this past year.

Should have the answer soon. If he goes games as a healthy scratch, something is up.

Agreed.

I didn't think there was a lot of "wow" to Charlton's workout numbers while this kid seems a little more athletic.
 

DBOY3141

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Most of us also like big 1T DT too but that's not what they like and they had hill rated higher. I think most had his talent at 2-3 but didn't like his personality or whatever but rod felt comfortable. Heard even Richard said to draft him over safety. I thought for sure we grab a safety in the 3rd, or 4th at worst but clearly we are all wrong. I'm glad we took a DT, didn't think it would be hill but I trust their board over any fans.
they were hoping Will harris from BC would fall to 90. He and Justin Layne were the target. They both got drafted, so they went BPA and that was McGovern.
 
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