Woods nearly a top-five FS, numbers show

buybuydandavis

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*pulls up alongside and rolls down window*

Hi there,

Defense had their moments, but really they were about a notch higher than league average, outside the top 10. Points, yards, touchdowns, drive success rate, were all outside the top 10 per drive.

They stepped it up in the Redzone though, like #7-8 in points allowed in the Redzone. So, if people want to make the argument that made them a top 10 defense, I wouldn't necessarily argue.

The offense was #2 in the NFL in time of possession, so their "totals" are skewed. Yeah, if you're a coach and you're looking at a high level "hey we finished top 10", that's one thing. If you're someone using rankings, which are by nature a relative comparison, and trying to actually figure **** out, totals include offensive time which affects number of possessions, number of snaps, etc so half of it is just throwing noise into the equation.

If you, or anyone else, is actually interested in looking at more accurate data for any reason at all (even FUN!), FootballOutsiders has rankings for both offense and defense on a "per drive" basis, which helps filter out the noise. I mean, if you want to be good you still need to take into account *why* the numbers are what they are, but it's a lot more accurate if actually want to see how good your defense/offense is vs other teams.

*peels out*

:clap:
*Per drive* stats. Our team's defensive rankings based on yardage totals have been distorted for years by the ball control offense that limits drives per game.
 

BigCatMonaco

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So are you basing it off of the 1 stat provided which was passer rating against?

If so, you realize most of his success was as a slot CB and not a FS right?

IIRC he started as more a slot corner but ended the last 13 games of the year taking 95% of the snaps at FS and our defenses points allowed per game went down while the league as a whole averaged a 1.5 point per game increase too
 

ScipioCowboy

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*pulls up alongside and rolls down window*

Hi there,

Defense had their moments, but really they were about a notch higher than league average, outside the top 10. Points, yards, touchdowns, drive success rate, were all outside the top 10 per drive.

They stepped it up in the Redzone though, like #7-8 in points allowed in the Redzone. So, if people want to make the argument that made them a top 10 defense, I wouldn't necessarily argue.

The offense was #2 in the NFL in time of possession, so their "totals" are skewed. Yeah, if you're a coach and you're looking at a high level "hey we finished top 10", that's one thing. If you're someone using rankings, which are by nature a relative comparison, and trying to actually figure **** out, totals include offensive time which affects number of possessions, number of snaps, etc so half of it is just throwing noise into the equation.

If you, or anyone else, is actually interested in looking at more accurate data for any reason at all (even FUN!), FootballOutsiders has rankings for both offense and defense on a "per drive" basis, which helps filter out the noise. I mean, if you want to be good you still need to take into account *why* the numbers are what they are, but it's a lot more accurate if actually want to see how good your defense/offense is vs other teams.

*peels out*

Offense and defense were fairly even in per drive stats. Now, once you adjust the stats for SOS and situation, they likely change a bit.

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/drivestats
 

beware_d-ware

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Got watching some Cowboys game rewinds yesterday and what struck me most about Woods is he misses a bunch of tackles. It's tough to judge his coverage because he's never on the TV most of the time, but he turned some 10 yard plays into 20 yard plays with whiffs and bad angles.
 

TheSkaven

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Defense had their moments, but really they were about a notch higher than league average, outside the top 10. Points, yards, touchdowns, drive success rate, were all outside the top 10 per drive.

They stepped it up in the Redzone though, like #7-8 in points allowed in the Redzone. So, if people want to make the argument that made them a top 10 defense, I wouldn't necessarily argue.

The offense was #2 in the NFL in time of possession, so their "totals" are skewed. Yeah, if you're a coach and you're looking at a high level "hey we finished top 10", that's one thing. If you're someone using rankings, which are by nature a relative comparison, and trying to actually figure **** out, totals include offensive time which affects number of possessions, number of snaps, etc so half of it is just throwing noise into the equation.

If you, or anyone else, is actually interested in looking at more accurate data for any reason at all (even FUN!), FootballOutsiders has rankings for both offense and defense on a "per drive" basis, which helps filter out the noise. I mean, if you want to be good you still need to take into account *why* the numbers are what they are, but it's a lot more accurate if actually want to see how good your defense/offense is vs other teams.

These are some very good points. The time of possession is absolutely a big deal - it’s one reason why I love this offense even though it’s not as sexy as other offenses in the league.

I’ll look at Football Insiders, but I still maintain that the most important stat for this defense is turnovers. Dallas ranked 26th in interceptions. And that was my original point - our GM believes it’s more important to address DT and DE than safety in order to put more pressure on the QB and generate those interceptions.
 

Mr_437

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Got watching some Cowboys game rewinds yesterday and what struck me most about Woods is he misses a bunch of tackles. It's tough to judge his coverage because he's never on the TV most of the time, but he turned some 10 yard plays into 20 yard plays with whiffs and bad angles.
I watched some games again too, and I agree...Woods needs to wrap up or do something different to secure more tackles. I like Woods but he may be about to get over hyped.
 

cnuball21

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IIRC he started as more a slot corner but ended the last 13 games of the year taking 95% of the snaps at FS and our defenses points allowed per game went down while the league as a whole averaged a 1.5 point per game increase too

Interesting...do you have a link showing snap count by position? I've love to know bc I feel like he spent more time in the nickel/dime as a clot CB.
 

cnuball21

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Huh? There are two links with various stats. The landryhat blog that used passer rating against was cited as 2018 where he very obviously started at FS.

Are you trying to say that his success was only when he came up and single covered as if that somehow mitigates his effectiveness?

I'm only seeing passer rating against. What am I missing?

I'm not saying that at all, I'm just saying I feel like he did that quite a bit which I loved...because I think one of his strengths is zone coverage using his short area quickness.
 

cnuball21

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I watched some games again too, and I agree...Woods needs to wrap up or do something different to secure more tackles. I like Woods but he may be about to get over hyped.

Biggest weakness IMO is tackling.

I absolutely love him as a 3rd safety and someone that can play nickel/dime slot CB.

If he's our guy at FS, anxious to see how he does full time. A little concerned about his lack of length and sideline to sideline speed but would absolutely love to be proved wrong.
 

FuzzyLumpkins

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I'm only seeing passer rating against. What am I missing?

I'm not saying that at all, I'm just saying I feel like he did that quite a bit which I loved...because I think one of his strengths is zone coverage using his short area quickness.

The OP has two links, mang. Try the other one.
 

ondaedg

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Both played good enough, this was a top 10 defense (#7) last year. What these stats don't show is the lack of turnovers, which is what this defense needs to climb to be a top 3 defense. Your free safety needs to intercept more than two balls. Look at the top defenses and they find ways to create turnovers from the FS spot.

But regardless, I like the way this team is approaching the situation. You make your safeties better when you create more pressure on the quarterback and force bad decisions. They're focusing on the defensive line, which is the key to building a championship team. Pressure creates turnovers and turnovers create short fields to score points.

We were an OK defense with some good stretches. 9 INTs is awfulllll. Even worse is we allowed 67% completion rates. Our offense was horrible for half the season allowing teams to play conservative on offense which made our D look better than it may have been. Some flashes of brilliance in there for sure though.
 

cnuball21

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The OP has two links, mang. Try the other one.

Ahhhh got it missed the first link.

Solid. What I’m trying to say is he spent quite a bit of time playing slot and wasn’t primarily being a deep CF.

I’d bet half if not more of his PBUs are playing slot vs FS.
 

Cannibal_Cowboy

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Just came across this......confirms what I said in another thread that once ET deal fell through, Woods became our 2019 starting FS. Didn't realize he started 10 games last year and actually played pretty damn good. Just my take but it also confirms maybe they weren't as high on Thornhill as we were led to believe.

BTW.....I'm guessing Richard saw more instinct ( critical for FS) in Woods with 10 starts than Byron Jones showed over three years.
Xavier Woods nearly a top five NFL free safety, numbers show
ByPATRIK WALKER Dec 3, 2018

https://247sports.com/nfl/dallas-co...-five-NFL-free-safety-numbers-show-125814766/
Pour some hot chocolate, pull up a chair and let's talk about Xavier Woods.

Arguably one of the most overlooked young players on the Dallas Cowboys' roster, the majority of the football world shoved him into a closet this past offseason as talks of a potential move for All-Pro safety Earl Thomas dominated the headlines -- for months on end -- all the way up to Sept. 30, when he broke his leg against the Arizona Cardinals. That ended Thomas' season and any further speculation of a trade, which was exceedingly unlikely to occur anyway, because the Seattle Seahawks proved they weren't going to send him home to North Texas when they stiff-armed a third-round pick offer and then one for a second-rounder -- with reports having surfaced things were being finalized to send him to the Kansas City Chiefs for the latter.


https://thelandryhat.com/2019/03/27/dallas-cowboys-xavier-woods-star-2019/
Oh Lawd :rolleyes:
Nearly is such a brain dead argument.
Either you are, or you're not.

Hey anyone remember when we nearly beat the Steelers in the '79 Super Bowl?
:facepalm:
 

CowboysFaninHouston

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Who ever said anything about X Woods. That's how stupid this staff is that they think in 2019 you don't need 2 safeties that can tackle and cover effectively.
so you are saying Richard is stupid? I thought many thought of him as this God of defense....
 

FuzzyLumpkins

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Ahhhh got it missed the first link.

Solid. What I’m trying to say is he spent quite a bit of time playing slot and wasn’t primarily being a deep CF.

I’d bet half if not more of his PBUs are playing slot vs FS.

I recall that 2 years ago but last year he was clearly a S. He would be asked to pick up TE and slot WR in various man coverages particularly out of base looks last season but I only see that as a good thing. That is what great S like Earl thomas and Darren Woodson did/do when they played S. It's how you disguise coverage.
 

Hennessy_King

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so you are saying Richard is stupid? I thought many thought of him as this God of defense....
Yes, Richard has Jourdan lewis on the bench whos played better than chido and anthony brown. He was smart enough to make byron a corner though. TBH after that rams game if every defensive coach got blown out I would have been ok with it. I think that game cost Richard a head coaching job.
 

SackMaster

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Both played good enough, this was a top 10 defense (#7) last year. What these stats don't show is the lack of turnovers, which is what this defense needs to climb to be a top 3 defense. Your free safety needs to intercept more than two balls. Look at the top defenses and they find ways to create turnovers from the FS spot.

But regardless, I like the way this team is approaching the situation. You make your safeties better when you create more pressure on the quarterback and force bad decisions. They're focusing on the defensive line, which is the key to building a championship team. Pressure creates turnovers and turnovers create short fields to score points.
Challenge accepted. Here are the results for the FS (according the NFL.com) of the Top 10 team defenses in 2018:
  1. Baltimore
    • FS Eric Weddle - 16 GS
    • Interceptions = 0 (3 PDs)
    • Forced Fumbles = 0
  2. Buffalo
    • FS Jordan Poyer - 16 GS
    • Interceptions = 4 (6 PDs)
    • Forced Fumbles = 1
  3. Chicago
    • FS Eddie Jackson - 14 GS
    • Interceptions = 6 (15 PDs)
    • Forced Fumbles = 1
  4. Minnesota
    • FS Harrison Smith - 16 GS
    • Interceptions = 3 (6 PDs)
    • Forced Fumbles = 1
  5. Jacksonville
    • FS Tashaun Gibson - 16 GS
    • Interceptions = 1 (7 PDs)
    • Forced Fumbles = 0
  6. Pittsburgh
    • FS Sean Davis - 15 GS
    • Interceptions = 1 (7 PDs)
    • Forced Fumbles = 0
  7. Dallas
    • FS Xavier Woods - 14 GS
    • Interceptions = 2 (9 PDs)
    • Forced Fumbles = 1
  8. Tennessee
    • FS Kevin Byard - 16 GS
    • Interceptions = 4 (8 PDs)
    • Forced Fumbles = 0
  9. Los Angeles Chargers
    • FS Derwin James - 16 GS
    • Interceptions = 3 (13 PDs)
    • Forced Fumbles = 0
  10. Detroit
    • FS Glover Quin - 16 GS
    • Interceptions = 0 (3 PDs)
    • Forced Fumbles = 0
So the TOP DEFENSE in the NFL did not have a single turnover by their FS. Not only that, but he had only 3 PDs as well. Hell, 3 defenses above Dallas had less than 2 interceptions by their FS. This just reiterates that football is a TEAM game.

Then looking at the top 10 defenses' Free Safeties, Xavier is
  • 6th in interceptions
  • 3rd in passes defensed
  • T-1st in Forced Fumbles
Look, I'm not suggesting Woods is as good as a Harrison Smith, Derwin James or even a Eddie Jackson. What I am saying Woods had a pretty good year last year and it takes more than a "ball hawking" FS to create a dominate defense. It helps, but is in no way a requirement to field a dominate defense. IMO, the only "requirements" needed by a FS to field a dominate defense is for the FS not to get beat deep often (which Xavier did very well last year) and to be a good tackler (again, something Xavier is good at). Anything else is just bonus.

Like you said, maybe creating pressure and forcing QBs into bad decisions will help Woods, and the whole defense, out in 2019. And I, for one, am happy Xavier EARNED the opportunity to prove himself again in 2019.
 

cnuball21

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I recall that 2 years ago but last year he was clearly a S. He would be asked to pick up TE and slot WR in various man coverages particularly out of base looks last season but I only see that as a good thing. That is what great S like Earl thomas and Darren Woodson did/do when they played S. It's how you disguise coverage.

I would just love to know his percentage of time with slot duty vs actually playing FS and where those numbers are aligned before I label him a “top 5 FS” in the NFL.
 

FuzzyLumpkins

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I would just love to know his percentage of time with slot duty vs actually playing FS and where those numbers are aligned before I label him a “top 5 FS” in the NFL.

He's certainly not there yet. He can cover similar to those two but he doesn't have the instincts nor ball skills of ET or the tackling nor pursuit of Woody.

At this point I would take solid starter.
 
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