QB Salary

CowboyRoy · May 9, 2019

Sydla said:
If in 2-3 years Dak is playing like an average QB, his contract will most definitely not be a bargain.

That's the issue. Why rush to sign this guy to an elite contract when you don't have to?

If you think he is an average QB now, then why would you think he would still be that 3 years from now? Dont you understand anything about young QB development? Do you REALLY think a 3rd year QB is at his full development?

You QB trolls shows no understanding of the QB position at all. Its sad that you cant enjoy how lucky we are to have found this kid.

CowboyRoy · May 9, 2019

Future said:
In 3 years, $30m won't be an "elite" contract. There are a bunch of QBs who will get new contracts in that time - Mahomes, Goff, Wentz, Watson, Newton, Luck, Trubisky - and they're all going to get more than that. Plus, there's last year's draft class down the line and who knows what kind of contracts some of the older QBs, like Rivers and Roethlisberger will get on short-term deals.

In 2022, $30m might be, what, the 12th-highest per year contract? That's the bet the Cowboys are making.

Yep.......and its simple logic and simple understanding of contracts and how they work.

It was the same way with Romo. Tried to tell uneducated fans back then that he would eventually be a bargain, which he was. Although they did keep restructuring and screwing that up in the end.

Sydla · May 9, 2019

CowboyRoy said:
If you think he is an average QB now, then why would you think he would still be that 3 years from now? Dont you understand anything about young QB development? Do you REALLY think a 3rd year QB is at his full development?

You QB trolls shows no understanding of the QB position at all. Its sad that you cant enjoy how lucky we are to have found this kid.

And here we go with the stupid strawman arguments.

Are you telling me that every 3rd year QB goes on and develops into a great QB? In other words, there is zero doubt that Dak Prescott will develop into a great/elite QB? If you and the Cowboys can guarantee me that, then sure, I am onboard with signing him right now.

Here's what I know. Some QBs do improve with time. Some don't. Some just have a ceiling and never break through it. So if Dak is average now, there is the possibility that in a few years, Dak might still be a similar QB. It's quite possible Dak Prescott may never be better than a Top 12ish QB. Could he develop into a Top 5 guy? Sure.

But I want to see one more year of development before I hand him a contract that would make him a Top 3-4 paid QB. The Cowboys DON'T have to lock themselves into a big, long term contract right now. They have tools at their disposal to allow him to play one more year under his existing deal and then still keep him under their control.

I don't think my stance is that outrageous.

Roadtrip635 · May 9, 2019

Cattle_Rancher said:
As the Cowboys get ready to pay Dak I’ve been thinking. Looking at QB salaries is it possible to build a SB winner with your QB eating 15 plus percent of your cap. When Russel Wilson was on his Rookie deal the Seahawks had one of the most talented teams around should of won two rings. Besides Brady who gives his team a huge discount what veteran QBs are putting championships in the trophy case. Rogers is supposed to be the best in the game where have the Packers been lately and how long ago was that SB. Brees also one of the greats when was his SB he is lucky right now they have hit on a high percentage of picks. I think Peyton was the last big money QB to win a SB and that was cause that D but when it came time to pay the D the Broncos dropped off. I know QB is the most important position on the field but if you can’t afford to put talent around him is he worth it. Only way I see you winning with a vet is if you get lucky and hit on a high percentage of your picks. Once Dak is paid can the Cowboys afford the two LBs, BJ, EE, Cooper and to keep the O-line together? You start shipping them off you have to replace them in the draft and that’s easier said than done. I think owners have gotten carried away and can’t control themselves when it comes to QBs. Kinda reminds me of why the owners wanted a cap have to wonder if we might see a max salary coming in the next CBA to control the spending on QBs. In the current CBA are you better build a great D a strong O-line paying them and steadily drafting QBs so you always have the next man up and are never paying 15 plus percent of the cap to your QB?

Everybody focuses on the QB, yes he is the most visible and highest paid position, but it comes down to the construction of the team. When Wilson was on his rookie deal, they didn't win because of that, they made several other great picks and many of those were on rookie deals or on cheap deals too. QBs are not the only position to put a squeeze on teams, our OL has been the highest paid for a few seasons but it's been 3 seasons they have shown that worth. It's not just about being able to sign a player, it's also about can we sign another player with similar production for less money? Teams win because they do hit on impact picks and they are able to sign effective FA's, not necessarily the highest paid ones. Even if Dak took a "team friendly deal", say $24 million versus $30 million, the difference isn't even enough to pay one of the LBs, EE, BJ or Coop. The problem isn't just paying the QB, it's that everyone else wants to get paid too. Coop's next contract will be in the $18-20 million range, Zeke's gonna want to get paid etc. DLaw's didn't take a cheap deal to help keep the team together.

Don't blame Rodger's contract for not surrounding him with talent, blame their lackluster drafts and FO. Brady didn't take less earlier in his career. Brady's cap hit this season is still 4th highest. The Pats don't typically pay for big FAs or resign many of their own for big money, even with the "deal" Brady gives them. What they are very good at is evaluating players that will fit within their systems and can fit a role and they move on from players before they decline in production.

Flamma · May 9, 2019

Cattle_Rancher said:
As the Cowboys get ready to pay Dak I’ve been thinking. Looking at QB salaries is it possible to build a SB winner with your QB eating 15 plus percent of your cap. When Russel Wilson was on his Rookie deal the Seahawks had one of the most talented teams around should of won two rings. Besides Brady who gives his team a huge discount what veteran QBs are putting championships in the trophy case. Rogers is supposed to be the best in the game where have the Packers been lately and how long ago was that SB. Brees also one of the greats when was his SB he is lucky right now they have hit on a high percentage of picks. I think Peyton was the last big money QB to win a SB and that was cause that D but when it came time to pay the D the Broncos dropped off. I know QB is the most important position on the field but if you can’t afford to put talent around him is he worth it. Only way I see you winning with a vet is if you get lucky and hit on a high percentage of your picks. Once Dak is paid can the Cowboys afford the two LBs, BJ, EE, Cooper and to keep the O-line together? You start shipping them off you have to replace them in the draft and that’s easier said than done. I think owners have gotten carried away and can’t control themselves when it comes to QBs. Kinda reminds me of why the owners wanted a cap have to wonder if we might see a max salary coming in the next CBA to control the spending on QBs. In the current CBA are you better build a great D a strong O-line paying them and steadily drafting QBs so you always have the next man up and are never paying 15 plus percent of the cap to your QB?

That's the catch 22. Pay the QB and you can't field a championship team. But without him you don't have a championship team. Emmitt Smith aside, someone on these boards came up with a really good idea to address this. If a team resigns a player they drafted they get a discount on the cap. You can still pay them market value, but the entire contract won't be a cap hit. Just the portion left over after the discount. Players can still go to highest bidder. This does not give teams an unfair advantage. All it does is put more emphasis on the draft. If you draft well you'll do better. The idea is actually brilliant.

Nightman · May 9, 2019

Tom Brady Cap Hits

Year Cap Cap %
2000 $205,833 0.3%
2001 $310,833 0.5%
2002$1,087,834 1.5%
2003 $3,318,750 4.4%
2004 $5,058,750 6.3%
2005 $8,423,750 9.9%
2006 $13,823,750 13.6%
2007 $7,340,000 6.7%
2008 $14,620,000 12.6%
2009 $14,620,000 11.9%
2010 $17,420,000 no cap
2011 $13,200,000 11.0%
2012 $8,000,000 6.6%
2013 $13,800,000 11.2%
2014 $14,800,000 11.1%
2015 $14,000,000 9.8%
2016 $13,764,706 8.9%
2017 $14,000,000 8.4%
2018 $22,000,000 12.4%
2019 $27,000,000 14.2%

the greatest team friendly contract in history

Nightman · May 9, 2019

Hennessy_King said:
cuz hes old and not a pro bowl player. we did that with ty craw and look how that worked out lol

TCrawford is getting paid like a back up

superonyx · May 9, 2019

Cattle_Rancher said:
As the Cowboys get ready to pay Dak I’ve been thinking. Looking at QB salaries is it possible to build a SB winner with your QB eating 15 plus percent of your cap. When Russel Wilson was on his Rookie deal the Seahawks had one of the most talented teams around should of won two rings. Besides Brady who gives his team a huge discount what veteran QBs are putting championships in the trophy case. Rogers is supposed to be the best in the game where have the Packers been lately and how long ago was that SB. Brees also one of the greats when was his SB he is lucky right now they have hit on a high percentage of picks. I think Peyton was the last big money QB to win a SB and that was cause that D but when it came time to pay the D the Broncos dropped off. I know QB is the most important position on the field but if you can’t afford to put talent around him is he worth it. Only way I see you winning with a vet is if you get lucky and hit on a high percentage of your picks. Once Dak is paid can the Cowboys afford the two LBs, BJ, EE, Cooper and to keep the O-line together? You start shipping them off you have to replace them in the draft and that’s easier said than done. I think owners have gotten carried away and can’t control themselves when it comes to QBs. Kinda reminds me of why the owners wanted a cap have to wonder if we might see a max salary coming in the next CBA to control the spending on QBs. In the current CBA are you better build a great D a strong O-line paying them and steadily drafting QBs so you always have the next man up and are never paying 15 plus percent of the cap to your QB?

The problem with this logic is that it ignores the rest of the facts in each situation.

I think most would agree at this point that Free Agency is too expensive of a place to build a team. Taking each player you mentioning and see if you feel salary cap is the reason they have not won a SB. I can't think of all of these awesome players the packers watch walk out of the door due to Rodgers salary creating money problems. The same goes for almost every QB that is well paid.

The issue is usually coaching and drafting. Innovative coaches or football genius coaches are the guys winning the SB's. The eagles didnt win a SB because of Nick Foles. They won because Petersons system. The Rams didnt make it to the SB because of Goff. They made it because McVey is a football wizard.

So paying a QB doesnt mean a SB and it doesnt mean no SB.

The reality of this sport and this team is Coaching will be the difference either way. We are one of the most talented teams in the NFL. Player for player I can't think of another team more talented.
But this doesnt guarantee anything.

superonyx · May 9, 2019

Hennessy_King said:
Also helps when your division is a dumpster fire

Good point.
They have a guarantee home field advantage and are usually only 2 home games from the SB each post season.

CowboyRoy · May 9, 2019

Sydla said:
And here we go with the stupid strawman arguments.

Are you telling me that every 3rd year QB goes on and develops into a great QB? In other words, there is zero doubt that Dak Prescott will develop into a great/elite QB?

Did you just make all that up in your head?

Its ok that you dont get it. Really it is.

And in the true sense of the word elite, I dont think Dak will ever be an elite passer like a Brees or a Rogers. Little chance of that. But he is already elite in other important areas.

Im not one of these guys that thinks you need a top 5 QB or you throw the QB away.

Roadtrip635 · May 9, 2019

Future said:
In 3 years, $30m won't be an "elite" contract. There are a bunch of QBs who will get new contracts in that time - Mahomes, Goff, Wentz, Watson, Newton, Luck, Trubisky - and they're all going to get more than that. Plus, there's last year's draft class down the line and who knows what kind of contracts some of the older QBs, like Rivers and Roethlisberger will get on short-term deals.

In 2022, $30m might be, what, the 12th-highest per year contract? That's the bet the Cowboys are making.

Ben signed a new 2yr deal AVY $34 million

McKDaddy · May 9, 2019

America's Cowboy said:
All of the Cowboys players, coaches and ownership wholly disagree.

you mean the receivers who were openly defending themselves last year because the

Future said:
In 3 years, $30m won't be an "elite" contract. There are a bunch of QBs who will get new contracts in that time - Mahomes, Goff, Wentz, Watson, Newton, Luck, Trubisky - and they're all going to get more than that. Plus, there's last year's draft class down the line and who knows what kind of contracts some of the older QBs, like Rivers and Roethlisberger will get on short-term deals.

In 2022, $30m might be, what, the 12th-highest per year contract? That's the bet the Cowboys are making.

If the reality is that he is still less than the 12th best QB, you lost the bet. To a lot of observers, there just isn't anything he has shown in 3 full seasons upon which to believe he can ever be more than about the 12th best, ie, his ceiling. He certainly hasn't been anything more than 14-18 the last two years & truth be told for about 16 games of that period he was bottom 8.

Future · May 9, 2019

Roadtrip635 said:
Ben signed a new 2yr deal AVY $34 million

I know. And if he can still play two years from now, he might get that again.

Nightman · May 9, 2019

Sydla said:
This logic simply makes zero sense. Because if it works then apply it to all players.

I mean why not get out ahead of Robert Quinn now and sign him to a huge DE contract because hey, in a few years, it might be only the 10th highest paid DE contract and a real bargain?

His point is right though....because of the cap going up 15% of the cap means a lot less

15% of 120m in 2013 leaves you with 102m for the remaining 52 players
15% of 190m in 2019 leaves you with 162m for 52 players.... that is a big difference

Especially considering the bottom 26 guys make only 10% combined
If you can't sign a top squad with 143m for 26 guys that is bad management

Little Jr · May 9, 2019

Nightman said:
Year Cap Cap %
2000 $205,833 0.3%
2001 $310,833 0.5%
2002$1,087,834 1.5%
2003 $3,318,750 4.4%
2004 $5,058,750 6.3%
2005 $8,423,750 9.9%
2006 $13,823,750 13.6%
2007 $7,340,000 6.7%
2008 $14,620,000 12.6%
2009 $14,620,000 11.9%
2010 $17,420,000 no cap
2011 $13,200,000 11.0%
2012 $8,000,000 6.6%
2013 $13,800,000 11.2%
2014 $14,800,000 11.1%
2015 $14,000,000 9.8%
2016 $13,764,706 8.9%
2017 $14,000,000 8.4%
2018 $22,000,000 12.4%
2019 $27,000,000 14.2%

What is this from?

Sydla · May 9, 2019

CowboyRoy said:
Did you just make all that up in your head?

Its ok that you dont get it. Really it is.

And in the true sense of the word elite, I dont think Dak will ever be an elite passer like a Brees or a Rogers. Little chance of that. But he is already elite in other important areas.

Im not one of these guys that thinks you need a top 5 QB or you throw the QB away.

Nah, just using your own words here. You said, and I quote:

If you think he is an average QB now, then why would you think he would still be that 3 years from now? Dont you understand anything about young QB development? Do you REALLY think a 3rd year QB is at his full development?

The implication here is that all third year QBs continue to improve and get much better.

The reality is that not all third year QBs get noticeably better. Some have hit their ceilings. Some are held back by physical limitations.

Here's the reality that guys like you don't want to grasp - we may have seen the best of Dak. You won't even entertain the possibility that Dak might be as good as he is going to get. Conversely, I acknowledge the reality that Dak could get better, much better even. But I don't know that for certain right now so given the situation - he is under contract for one more year and the Cowboys have the protection of the tag next offseason - I would rather let him play it out, see how he does with what his owner calls a SB caliber roster and then make a contract decision after seeing his 4th season and progress.

I don't think that is such a stupid idea.

Nightman · May 9, 2019

Future said:
I know. And if he can still play two years from now, he might get that again.

Still when you add the new 68m for 2 years to the 22m he had left that is still only 30m for 3 years

Not quite as dramatic sounding.... an agents trick

Nightman · May 9, 2019

Little Jr said:
What is this from?

OTC with a little Cut and Paste adjustments

Each player has a History tab that shows some old contracts and cash paid

Little Jr · May 9, 2019

Nightman said:
OTC with a little Cut and Paste adjustments

Each player has a History tab that shows some old contracts and cash paid

Who is it though?

conner01 · May 9, 2019

Flamma said:
That's the catch 22. Pay the QB and you can't field a championship team. But without him you don't have a championship team. Emmitt Smith aside, someone on these boards came up with a really good idea to address this. If a team resigns a player they drafted they get a discount on the cap. You can still pay them market value, but the entire contract won't be a cap hit. Just the portion left over after the discount. Players can still go to highest bidder. This does not give teams an unfair advantage. All it does is put more emphasis on the draft. If you draft well you'll do better. The idea is actually brilliant.

It is but to change the cba requires players and owners to agree. That’s something that would be a hard sale to the owners because it cost them more money
It’s a great idea but may be hard to get done simple because the owners want to make as much as they can too
Hopefully the players are a whole see that it’s costing middle and lower tiered players money with present system because if one player gets 15% of the money that leaves much less to be spread around to the rest
And owners see that these QB contract are hurting their ability to build a team

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