Post-draft team analysis: DL

buybuydandavis

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Starters: Robert Quinn, Maliek Collins, Antwaun Woods, DeMarcus Lawrence
Contenders: Taco Charlton, Tyrone Crawford, Christian Covington, Dorance Armstrong, Kerry Hyder, Trysten Hill, Daniel Ross, Joe Jackson, Jalen Jelks, Shakir Soto, Daniel Wise, Ricky Walker, Randy Gregory


ROSTER PREDICTION: I'd like to keep 11, but I think 10 will be the limit. We've got four clear ends (Lawrence, Quinn, Charlton and Armstrong), three hybrids (Crawford, Hyder, Jackson) and four clear defensive tackles (Woods, Collins, Covington and Hill). I believe one of Charlton, Hyder and Jackson won't make the team. If Charlton doesn't step up this preseason, we could look to trade him at the end of camp to recoup any pick we could get. Hyder isn't being paid that much, so if he doesn't recover his form or others are simply as good or better, he could be the odd man out. Jackson is a late-round draft pick, so his fate, along with Wise's, could be a season on the practice squad. If Charlton, Hyder and Jackson all look great (or if Wise does instead of one of them), it could spell the end of Crawford's time on the roster because of his high salary.

My prediction is we will end up keeping Lawrence, Quinn, Charlton, Armstrong, Crawford, Hyder, Woods, Collins, Covington and Hill, with Jackson and Wise going on the PS. My hope is that Jackson or Wise play at least equal to Charlton and Crawford and we can trade Charlton and/or Crawford for picks or players at other positions.

Taco is now a hybrid. Base DE, interior rushman depth. I don't see him getting many rush snaps at DE, particularly if Gregory returns, which seems likely.

Quinn may be the pass rushing starting DE, but I expect he's not the base RDE. Probably Crawford.
 

gimmesix

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Taco is now a hybrid. Base DE, interior rushman depth. I don't see him getting many rush snaps at DE, particularly if Gregory returns, which seems likely.

Quinn may be the pass rushing starting DE, but I expect he's not the base RDE. Probably Crawford.

It's possible that Charlton could go to being an interior pass rusher, but I really think we want to find out first if he can be a long-term DE. We have to determine if we have that guy or we have to either pay Quinn or get a replacement.

I think Quinn will play more as a base end than some may think. You prefer to have ends out there who can rush the passer when teams throw on running downs, more like what we get from Charlton. Putting Crawford out there doesn't help us much against the pass when he plays end. Quinn can do both fairly well.
 

gmoney112

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With the uncertainty of Collins, Quinn, and Covington for next year, I'd be hard pressed not to carry 11. Especially when you throw in Crawford's contract for next year and who knows about Taco.

I'd probably carry 3 TE, and one less LB, maybe 2 QB. That opens up a few spots.

All depends on how they play in camp, obviously. But I'm looking to go long at DL with the contracts situation the way it is
 

gimmesix

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When did Crawford lose his starting job?

He'll most likely be at right end on run downs and play interior on passing downs unless someone unseats him from that role. I do think Quinn could be out there more as a three-down player than some of the other right ends we've had, however, I think we've essentially got a run-down group and pass-down group.

Run downs: Crawford/Charlton, Covington, Woods, Lawrence/Armstrong

Pass downs: Quinn, Hill/Hyder, Collins/Crawford, Lawrence

Hyder could also be included with the run-downs player at DE, while as I said, Quinn could be out there on run downs some because he's a less limited player. Offensive coordinators know if we have Crawford or Charlton out there, there's not going to be as much pass pressure coming from that right side. I think our only concern with Quinn will be trying not to overuse him.
 

Typhus

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Sorry this one was so long. I might should have split it into DE and DT posts, but I wanted to keep the line together since we have several position flex players.
Its all good bro,, I for one always appreciate the info, and the effort you provide,, thank you for that.
So Im quick to the point on evaluation,, hopefully Joe Jackson can replace a bust in Hatcher.
 

gimmesix

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I think Quinn will play more as a base end than some may think. You prefer to have ends out there who can rush the passer when teams throw on running downs, more like what we get from Charlton. Putting Crawford out there doesn't help us much against the pass when he plays end. Quinn can do both fairly well.

I meant Lawrence. It's what we'd like to get from Charlton, but not what we've gotten his first two years. Lawrence is a plus player against the run and pass, which is what you'd like to have across the board.
 

xwalker

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Taco is now a hybrid. Base DE, interior rushman depth. I don't see him getting many rush snaps at DE, particularly if Gregory returns, which seems likely.

Quinn may be the pass rushing starting DE, but I expect he's not the base RDE. Probably Crawford.
It's possible that Charlton could go to being an interior pass rusher, but I really think we want to find out first if he can be a long-term DE. We have to determine if we have that guy or we have to either pay Quinn or get a replacement.

I think Quinn will play more as a base end than some may think. You prefer to have ends out there who can rush the passer when teams throw on running downs, more like what we get from Charlton. Putting Crawford out there doesn't help us much against the pass when he plays end. Quinn can do both fairly well.

They'll have Taco focus on playing DE.

They might give him snaps at DT later in training camp if they think he's going to the the 4th or 5th DE on the depth chart but their preference will be for him to step up at DE.

Quinn will start at RDE but they'll have a rotation.

For reference, DLaw averaged playing 72% of the snaps in 2018.

In 2018, Gregory was the "Pass Rushing RDE" and averaged 45% of the snaps.

Gregory is actually very good against the run but Marinelli said he didn't want to wear him down playing too much base.

Taco (7 starts) and Crawford (8 starts at DE) played more base RDE with Gregory playing more in passing situations.

Marinelli loves Crawford but I'm sure that Stephen Jones would like to replace him with less expensive players.

Can Hill/Collins win the top 2 spots at 3-tech (Can Collins stay healthy for all of training camp) ?

Is Covington an option at 3-tech or just 1-tech?

Is Hyder an option at 3-tech or just DE?

Can Taco/Hyder/Other can replace Crawford's snaps at RDE in the base defense?
 

xwalker

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For reference, here are the starts for DLinemen in 2018:

Defensive End
15 ..... Demarcus Lawrence
1 ..... Randy Gregory
7 ..... Taco Charlton
1 ..... Dorance Armstrong
8 ..... Tyrone Crawford

Defensive Tackle
7 ..... Tyrone Crawford
15 ..... Antwaun Woods
9 ..... Maliek Collins
1 ..... Caraun Reid
0 ..... David Irving
0 ..... Daniel Ross
 

xwalker

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With the uncertainty of Collins, Quinn, and Covington for next year, I'd be hard pressed not to carry 11. Especially when you throw in Crawford's contract for next year and who knows about Taco.

I'd probably carry 3 TE, and one less LB, maybe 2 QB. That opens up a few spots.

All depends on how they play in camp, obviously. But I'm looking to go long at DL with the contracts situation the way it is

They've never started or ended the season with 11 DL on the 53 man roster since they switched back to the 4-3 in 2013.

There might have been some weeks during seasons where they had 11 on the 53, but they didn't start or end seasons with 11.

I did find 1 season where the combination of suspended players plus active players got them to 11 to start the season.
 

JayFord

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I normally don’t do expectations because as soon as you expect something from this team they act like they don’t football very well

But I’m expecting pure dominance from the dline this year they have enough guys so that they should always be fresh and 12 guys rotating in and out vs 5 tired offensive lineman they have no business getting pushed around
 

kskboys

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I'm a bit surprised that you think Armstrong would lose his spot. I can understand the rest, though, as I don't think Hyder is guaranteed a spot.
I think Joe Jackson was a steal and is more talented. He was on a really bad D and needs some technique work.

So far, Hyder is a one year wonder. He had 8 sacks in 16. Not like he blew up the league. Still, he's always been disruptive, so I do like adding him to the rotation.
 

kskboys

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I normally don’t do expectations because as soon as you expect something from this team they act like they don’t football very well

But I’m expecting pure dominance from the dline this year they have enough guys so that they should always be fresh and 12 guys rotating in and out vs 5 tired offensive lineman they have no business getting pushed around
Possibly, but they might have too many JAG's and not enough studs.
 

buybuydandavis

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They'll have Taco focus on playing DE.

They might give him snaps at DT later in training camp if they think he's going to the the 4th or 5th DE on the depth chart but their preference will be for him to step up at DE.

Quinn will start at RDE but they'll have a rotation.

For reference, DLaw averaged playing 72% of the snaps in 2018.

In 2018, Gregory was the "Pass Rushing RDE" and averaged 45% of the snaps.

Gregory is actually very good against the run but Marinelli said he didn't want to wear him down playing too much base.

Taco (7 starts) and Crawford (8 starts at DE) played more base RDE with Gregory playing more in passing situations.

Marinelli loves Crawford but I'm sure that Stephen Jones would like to replace him with less expensive players.

Can Hill/Collins win the top 2 spots at 3-tech (Can Collins stay healthy for all of training camp) ?

Is Covington an option at 3-tech or just 1-tech?

Is Hyder an option at 3-tech or just DE?

Can Taco/Hyder/Other can replace Crawford's snaps at RDE in the base defense?

Gregory's snap count ramped up over the season as he got in football shape. It was high 60s the last two regular season games. Averaged 50% in the playoffs, brought down by heavy run bias by the Rams.

Taco got 9% and 27% in the playoffs. Particularly if Gregory is back, Taco is going to struggle to get snaps at RDE. He won't get it on clear pass downs. Quinn and Gregory are preferable. Crawford will probably take the bulk on run downs. Gregory will get some when they want balanced run/pass. Hyder gets some too.

I think Taco is competing with Crawford and Hyder for base RDE snaps and pass rush DT snaps. Taco is at best the 2nd ranked tweener. His age and remaining contract give him something of an edge, but those minimal playoff snaps are a hint.

Another problem for Taco at RDE. Jackson is supposed to have NFL ready power as a base DE. He's younger and cheaper. Taco has to solidly beat him out.
 

buybuydandavis

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I think Joe Jackson was a steal and is more talented. He was on a really bad D and needs some technique work.

So far, Hyder is a one year wonder. He had 8 sacks in 16. Not like he blew up the league. Still, he's always been disruptive, so I do like adding him to the rotation.

Lawrence had 5 sacks in the last 14 games.

Hyder's 8 sacks over 16 looks pretty good, particularly at the price. 2nd, 2nd, 1st, Tied for 1st, 1st for sacks for us the last 5 years.

Hyder seems like a nice tweener for us. Base RDE, DT pass rush. Maybe give us the option to move Crawford.

Jackson could really threaten Taco for base RDE snaps. Younger, cheaper, longer contract remaining. Also helps push Crawford to the bus stop.
 

buybuydandavis

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Possibly, but they might have too many JAG's and not enough studs.

I don't see enough at DT for dominance. Probably a solid rotation. I'd say better than JAGs, but no one particularly good either.

But if Gregory is back and Lawrence stays healthy, Gregory, Lawrence, and Quinn could be a great DE pass rush rotation.
 

xwalker

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I think Joe Jackson was a steal and is more talented. He was on a really bad D and needs some technique work.

So far, Hyder is a one year wonder. He had 8 sacks in 16. Not like he blew up the league. Still, he's always been disruptive, so I do like adding him to the rotation.

Yes, Hyder still has to prove himself; however, he was out injured in 2017 and the Lions switched to a 3-4 by the time he returned in 2018.

He was obviously not a good fit in a 3-4.
 
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