Donovan Wilson, hidden gem?

QuincyCarterEra · May 14, 2019

PJTHEDOORS said:
Why, stats not good enough?

24 year old box safety with poor tackling mechanics, who averaged less than 3 tackles a game and has an injury history. Other than that he's peachy.

kskboys · May 16, 2019

QuincyCarterEra said:
More likely a wasted pick than hidden gem

Anybody have the # of games he was ejected?

A 6th rounder wasted? Man, you really need to start watching the draft more closely. Most 5-7 rounders don't make the team. So, we threw a dart at a dude who should at least be a quality STer. Might even be able to play a bit. And at a need position. How in hades can you call this pick wasted? Very strange assessment.

KingintheNorth · May 16, 2019

very little risk here.

Also, some Cowboys fans are tripping over themselves to make excuses for our sub-par safety unit, which consists of Xavier Woods (2017 6th round pick), Kavon Frazier (2016 6th round pick) and Jeff Heath (2013 UDFA).

but this guy, he's a "waste" ?

QuincyCarterEra · May 16, 2019

kskboys said:
A 6th rounder wasted? Man, you really need to start watching the draft more closely. Most 5-7 rounders don't make the team. So, we threw a dart at a dude who should at least be a quality STer. Might even be able to play a bit. And at a need position. How in hades can you call this pick wasted? Very strange assessment.

You know I follow the draft very closely, even more so than you do.

Some posters are calling him a hidden gem. Guess you didnt read what I said. I'm not calling him a wasted pick, I said he was more likely to be a wasted pick than a hidden gem, which I have the right to say. Very strange response.

LACowboysFan1 · May 17, 2019

Mr_437 said:
Interesting Wilson is 10 lbs lighter than what DAL usually drafts or signs at SS...arms are long ** tho. Do they redshirt n bulk him up? Or is Richard cool with his frame?

Once a guy gets out of school and has little to do but work out, shouldn't be a problem to add a few pounds, though 10 pounds lighter than the "usual" Cowboys draftee doesn't seem like a lot...

Mr_437 · May 17, 2019

LACowboysFan1 said:
Once a guy gets out of school and has little to do but work out, shouldn't be a problem to add a few pounds, though 10 pounds lighter than the "usual" Cowboys draftee doesn't seem like a lot...

Yeah, somewhere on some roster list his weight is already at 204.

speedkilz88 · May 17, 2019

Cowboys list him as 6-0 204 (minicamp roster)

kskboys · May 17, 2019

QuincyCarterEra said:
You know I follow the draft very closely, even more so than you do.

Some posters are calling him a hidden gem. Guess you didnt read what I said. I'm not calling him a wasted pick, I said he was more likely to be a wasted pick than a hidden gem, which I have the right to say. Very strange response.

I stand by my original statement. Taking a guy w/ potential and who should be a STer in the 6th round is what you want to do. To think he's a wasted pick is silly, strange, call it what you want. He's a dart throw.

xwalker · May 20, 2019

QuincyCarterEra said:
24 year old box safety with poor tackling mechanics, who averaged less than 3 tackles a game and has an injury history. Other than that he's peachy.

Wilson played CB and Deep Safety at times during his college career.

They played mostly a split zone with 2 Safeties back which put him about half-way between a single-high Safety alignment and a Box Safety alignment.

He was overly aggressive as a hitter/tackler; however, the Cowboys will play him at SS and it's easier to tone down a big hitter than to make a passive tackler into an aggressive tackler.

I'm not saying he'll be good/great but Box Safety is NOT the correct label for him.

Mr_437 · May 25, 2019

xwalker said:
Wilson played CB and Deep Safety at times during his college career.

They played mostly a split zone with 2 Safeties back which put him about half-way between a single-high Safety alignment and a Box Safety alignment.

He was overly aggressive as a hitter/tackler; however, the Cowboys will play him at SS and it's easier to tone down a big hitter than to make a passive tackler into an aggressive tackler.

I'm not saying he'll be good/great but Box Safety is NOT the correct label for him.

Agree with your assessment. Wilson has range over the top and will make plays on the ball.

Playing Wilson in the box is good for him because he's a good blitzer, gap shooter, and he can handle the curl-to-flat responsibility. Overall, they have something to work with.

PJTHEDOORS · May 26, 2019

QuincyCarterEra said:
24 year old box safety with poor tackling mechanics, who averaged less than 3 tackles a game and has an injury history. Other than that he's peachy.

67 total tackles = 5.5 a game.
https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/donovan-wilson-2.html

speedkilz88 · Jun 4, 2019

Kris Richard told Jerry that he can fix his tackling angles issue.

Dak_Attack_09 · Jun 6, 2019

xwalker said:
Wilson played CB and Deep Safety at times during his college career.

They played mostly a split zone with 2 Safeties back which put him about half-way between a single-high Safety alignment and a Box Safety alignment.

He was overly aggressive as a hitter/tackler; however, the Cowboys will play him at SS and it's easier to tone down a big hitter than to make a passive tackler into an aggressive tackler.

I'm not saying he'll be good/great but Box Safety is NOT the correct label for him.

I think he will be great for covering RBs out of the backfield. The way the league is going you need a guy that can tackle and most importantly cover receivers in space, the roles of Safeties are changing from the norm.

xwalker · Jun 6, 2019

Dak_Attack_09 said:
I think he will be great for covering RBs out of the backfield. The way the league is going you need a guy that can tackle and most importantly cover receivers in space, the roles of Safeties are changing from the norm.

Strong Safety is an interesting position in terms of how it has and still is evolving.

As the NFL became a passing league, FS became the High Paid Safeties.

As passing evolved further with TEs and RBs increasingly in the mix, it became more important to have Strong Safeties that can cover.

Strong Safety continues to be a position where teams can "get by" with limited players because D-Coordinators can scheme around them to some extent; however, having s Strong Safety with quality run and pass defense skills has become a huge bonus for teams. While DCs can scheme around limited Strong Safeties, it makes the defense more predictable. An elite SS allows the DC to use a multitude of coverage(s) without worrying about the SS getting exposed.

Radical Example of SS evolving from a run stopper to a pass coverage player:

Jeff Heath
- Pass coverage ability kept him on the field, despite issues in run defense.
- Cowboys could have subbed in Frazier for run defense, but didn't want to be without Heath's coverage ability.

Dak_Attack_09 · Jun 6, 2019

xwalker said:
Strong Safety is an interesting position in terms of how it has and still is evolving.

As the NFL became a passing league, FS became the High Paid Safeties.

As passing evolved further with TEs and RBs increasingly in the mix, it became more important to have Strong Safeties that can cover.

Strong Safety continues to be a position where teams can "get by" with limited players because D-Coordinators can scheme around them to some extent; however, having s Strong Safety with quality run and pass defense skills has become a huge bonus for teams. While DCs can scheme around limited Strong Safeties, it makes the defense more predictable. An elite SS allows the DC to use a multitude of coverage(s) without worrying about the SS getting exposed.

Radical Example of SS evolving from a run stopper to a pass coverage player:

Jeff Heath

Pass coverage ability kept him on the field, despite issues in run defense.

Cowboys could have subbed in Frazier for run defense, but didn't want to be without Heath's coverage ability.

P.S. this is why it’s so important to get a NT like Haloti Nagata or Star Louteleli if you want a elite defense. Their ability to take on double teams allow LBs & Safeties to lineup around the field for best coverage duties.

If I was Jerry I would try to shop around for a young veteran, either trade a mid round pick or package a player and lower round picks.

xwalker · Jun 6, 2019

Dak_Attack_09 said:
P.S. this is why it’s so important to get a NT like Haloti Nagata or Star Louteleli if you want a elite defense. Their ability to take on double teams allow LBs & Safeties to lineup around the field for best coverage duties.

If I was Jerry I would try to shop around for a young veteran, either trade a mid round pick or package a player and lower round picks.

I'll have to somewhat disagree.

Discount Version of Ngata
You can't get a Ngata in his prime by trading a mid-round pick.
If you get a discount version of Ngata, then it's likely a run stopper that comes out in obvious passing situations.

Offensives have Evolved
NFL offenses have evolved and have limited the impact of DTs that require double-team blocks.

Zone Run Blocking
In the past, a discount version of Ngata was often a tub-of-lard type DT.
The Zone Running scheme made the tub-of-lard type DTs obsolete.
They can't flow down the line as required to defend Zone runs, and impede their teammates.

Get big DTs chasing
Offenses will often run away from the big/slow DTs and only use 1 blocker on them for those plays.
This will get those DTs "chasing" and they'll wear down.

Modern DTs cover a lot of ground
Most fans would be surprised by how often DTs get outside or downfield on tackles.

Very Few Massive DTs that are elite
There are very few that are both massive and can cover ground as needed in the modern NFL.

Dak_Attack_09 · Jun 6, 2019

xwalker said:
I'll have to somewhat disagree.

Discount Version of Ngata
You can't get a Ngata in his prime by trading a mid-round pick.
If you get a discount version of Ngata, then it's likely a run stopper that comes out in obvious passing situations.

Offensives have Evolved
NFL offenses have evolved and have limited the impact of DTs that require double-team blocks.

Zone Run Blocking
In the past, a discount version of Ngata was often a tub-of-lard type DT.
The Zone Running scheme made the tub-of-lard type DTs obsolete.
They can't flow down the line as required to defend Zone runs, and impede their teammates.

Get big DTs chasing
Offenses will often run away from the big/slow DTs and only use 1 blocker on them for those plays.
This will get those DTs "chasing" and they'll wear down.

Modern DTs cover a lot of ground
Most fans would be surprised by how often DTs get outside or downfield on tackles.

Very Few Massive DTs that are elite
There are very few that are both massive and can cover ground as needed in the modern NFL.

Everything you said is opposite of what happened to this defense vs the Rams and your assessment of Nagata.

P.S. I also said Star Louteleli and I woud thrown in a 2nd rounder if the CAP hit is taken by the former team.

xwalker · Jun 6, 2019

Dak_Attack_09 said:
Everything you said is opposite of what happened to this defense vs the Rams and your assessment of Nagata.

P.S. I also said Star Louteleli and I woud thrown in a 2nd founded of the CAP hit is taken by the former team.

It's Ngata and I didn't assess him.

I said if you get a discount version...

Star Lotulelei just signed a 50M contract a year ago.

Star at 315 pounds is the type of DT with both power and range.

The first play analyzed in that video is not really a good analysis. Star just did his basic job on that play. It's the missed block by the LG against the LB and the inability of the LT to "reach" block K.Short that killed that play.

CalPolyTechnique · Jun 6, 2019

PJTHEDOORS said:
67 total tackles = 5.5 a game.
https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/donovan-wilson-2.html

You found QCE’s weakness....math

speedkilz88 · Jun 7, 2019

50m contract for 17 total tackles last season? I think I prefer Woods and Covington.

Donovan Wilson, hidden gem?

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