Who Is To Blame For The Star Wars Fiasco?

timb2 said:

Because it is obvious they wanted to push an agenda instead of a good story

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Okay. So. When audiences were first introduced to Carrie Fisher's character, Princess Leia was a Rebel spy, trying to get the stolen Death Star plans into the hands of the Rebel Alliance leadership.

Pretty enormous responsibility for someone, say, roughly 20 years old, if that. Defying a Sith ruled regime. Seeing your (adopted) parents and your homeworld blown to bits fighting the cause. Helping establish and run Alliance bases on frozen worlds. Assisting sabotage raids on moons filled with Ezekiel Elliott sized head little forest folks.

100% committed to the cause? Check.

Displays and respected for leadership qualities? Check.

Discovers, say, mid-20's, that she is the offspring and brother of powerful wielders of The Force?

Check.

Skip ahead 40+ years later. The First Order's opposition is The Resistance, who are basically The Alliance rehashed. Previous Alliance leaders either grew old and died or were killed. New Resistance leaders would be needed. Special individuals with the knowledge and experience of fighting and scheming against such a powerful foe. Who would fit those qualifications?

Not Leia Organa.

Maybe some old Alliance generals would vouch for Leia's abilities as a Resistance general?

Nah. Why would Han or Lando do that?

/mini-rant

Scratch that.

I gotta find the right font to create a opening Star Wars themed animated gif lead-in entitled:
Episode XX: The Estrogen Agenda Festers

/mini-rant

Runwildboys said:

If I was a big fan of the original, rather than just a casual viewer, I'm sure I would've given the reboot more of a chance.

As for TNG, it took me a while to really go all in, but the Klingon update helped considerably. I couldn't stand Riker's character, and I was iffy about this old, bald captain, who's from France, but has a distinct British accent. It ended up being my favorite incarnation of the series....though I'm still not a Riker fan.

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I was seeking more insight into why you might automatically write off a change in a character from male to female. That is all. Thanks.

Runwildboys said:

Is the first Harry Mudd episode the one with the women who take the pills to "become beautiful"?

I have to say, I was both surprised and upset that Tasha Yar died in TNG. She was becoming one of my favorite characters.

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You were not the only one. Skin of Evil (I think that is right) is still one of a few episodes in all the different series that I will not proactively re-watch.

Until today, I never gave even a millisecond thought of seeing Leia Organa displaying any Force sensitive powers in the upcoming film. I was content seeing her do what she did in TLJ after waiting so many years after ROTJ to find out would she be trained in the ways of The Force eventually. She was and did not give it much thought.

What I waited to see for so long was exactly what some of TLJ audience did not want to see (or seemingly cannot UNsee). I must be honest and admit now hoping I will have the opportunity of seeing the character do something as equally or far more exotic in TROS.

Maybe lift the Millennium Falcon and drop it on top of her brat's head?

Perhaps disarm an entire legion of advancing First Order troops and shoot them with their own weapons?

Possibly do a Yoda, grab a light saber and bounce off 10-20 walls fighting a First Order battalion?

I do not believe I am brainstorming remotely well enough. Can anyone describe a scene that would be even more disliked than Leia flying in the vacuum of space?

DallasEast said:

I was seeking more insight into why you might automatically write off a change in a character from male to female. That is all. Thanks.

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Dirk Benedict's Starbuck was probably the second most integral character on the show, behind Lorne Greene's Commander Adama (maybe Apollo was more important than Starbuck, I don't really remember that well). His role, as you mentioned, was perfectly suited for him (as was Face, in A-Team), and it would be difficult enough to replace him, but to do so with a super serious woman (that's how her character struck me, in the little time I watched) just seemed wrong, as did the fact that the Cylons were now T-1000 quality androids, rather than the Kitt Car faced robots of the original series.

DallasEast said:

You were not the only one. Skin of Evil (I think that is right) is still one of a few episodes in all the different series that I will not proactively re-watch.

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I think you're right about the name of the episode.

Runwildboys said:

Dirk Benedict's Starbuck was probably the second most integral character on the show, behind Lorne Greene's Commander Adama (maybe Apollo was more important than Starbuck, I don't really remember that well). His role, as you mentioned, was perfectly suited for him (as was Face, in A-Team), and it would be difficult enough to replace him, but to do so with a super serious woman (that's how her character struck me, in the little time I watched) just seemed wrong, as did the fact that the Cylons were now T-1000 quality androids, rather than the Kitt Car faced robots of the original series.

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Benedict's Starbuck was easily replaced. Fluff is not hard to supercede.

DallasEast said:

Until today, I never gave even a millisecond thought of seeing Leia Organa displaying any Force sensitive powers in the upcoming film. I was content seeing her do what she did in TLJ after waiting so many years after ROTJ to find out would she be trained in the ways of The Force eventually. She was and did not give it much thought.

What I waited to see for so long was exactly what some of TLJ audience did not want to see (or seemingly cannot UNsee). I must be honest and admit now hoping I will have the opportunity of seeing the character do something as equally or far more exotic in TROS.

Maybe lift the Millennium Falcon and drop it on top of her brat's head?

Perhaps disarm an entire legion of advancing First Order troops and shoot them with their own weapons?

Possibly do a Yoda, grab a light saber and bounce off 10-20 walls fighting a First Order battalion?

I do not believe I am brainstorming remotely well enough. Can anyone describe a scene that would be even more disliked than Leia flying in the vacuum of space?

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Honestly, from what I saw in the clip, she was unconscious at first, so how she didn't immediately succumb to the vacuum of space is the only thing that bothers me about that.

Runwildboys said:

Honestly, from what I saw in the clip, she was unconscious at first, so how she didn't immediately succumb to the vacuum of space is the only thing that bothers me about that.

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The correct answer is The Force saved her. It is also the explanation that some will dislike most.

DallasEast said:

Benedict's Starbuck was easily replaced. Fluff is not hard to supercede.

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I think what it boils down to probably isn't as much that they changed to a female, but that they made the whole series much darker, especially the Starbuck character.

DallasEast said:

The correct answer is The Force saved her. It is also the explanation that some will dislike most.

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One needs to use the force though, yes? The force doesn't decide who lives and who dies on its own, does it? I know that sounds like sarcasm, but I'm actually asking.

A side question (away from the Leia using The Force discussion).

Did anyone question Kylo Ren 'freezing' a laser beam at the start of TFA?

Runwildboys said:

I think what it boils down to probably isn't as much that they changed to a female, but that they made the whole series much darker, especially the Starbuck character.

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That I can understand. I have learned 'dark' drama, which re-imagined BG is overflowing with, does not appeal to everyone as entertainment.

Runwildboys said:

One needs to use the force though, yes? The force doesn't decide who lives and who dies on its own, does it? I know that sounds like sarcasm, but I'm actually asking.

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Good question which I do not have an immediate answer. My earlier reply was too brief. In my opinion, Leia appeared unconscious but I believe she was in such deep concentration, summoning enough Force control to survive certain death, that she appeared unconscious. In other words, I do not think she ever lost consciousness.

DallasEast said:

Good question which I do not have an immediate answer. My earlier reply was too brief. In my opinion, Leia appeared unconscious but I believe she was in such deep concentration, summoning enough Force control to survive certain death, that she appeared unconscious. In other words, I do not think she ever lost consciousness.

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I'd have to see the whole scene with more context to form a definitive opinion, but the Force is definitely strong in that one.

DallasEast said:

Until today, I never gave even a millisecond thought of seeing Leia Organa displaying any Force sensitive powers in the upcoming film. I was content seeing her do what she did in TLJ after waiting so many years after ROTJ to find out would she be trained in the ways of The Force eventually. She was and did not give it much thought.

What I waited to see for so long was exactly what some of TLJ audience did not want to see (or seemingly cannot UNsee). I must be honest and admit now hoping I will have the opportunity of seeing the character do something as equally or far more exotic in TROS.

Maybe lift the Millennium Falcon and drop it on top of her brat's head?

Perhaps disarm an entire legion of advancing First Order troops and shoot them with their own weapons?

Possibly do a Yoda, grab a light saber and bounce off 10-20 walls fighting a First Order battalion?

I do not believe I am brainstorming remotely well enough. Can anyone describe a scene that would be even more disliked than Leia flying in the vacuum of space?

Click to expand...

peter parker dancing down the new york city street in spiderman 3.

worst
hollywood
moment
ever

iceberg said:

peter parker dancing down the new york city street in spiderman 3.

worst
hollywood
moment
ever

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I 100% agree but I was hoping of an example of Leia using the Force more 'outlandishly' than as Mary Poppins or Super Saiyan.

iceberg said:

peter parker dancing down the new york city street in spiderman 3.

worst
hollywood
moment
ever

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On second thought, I know a fellow member who can offer NOT ONLY a worst Hollywood moment ever that beats your suggestion (I do not think so but I only have my opinion) but also THE WORST Hollywood movie ever!

Could you, pretty please, help us out here @cml750 ?

DallasEast said:

You were not the only one. Skin of Evil (I think that is right) is still one of a few episodes in all the different series that I will not proactively re-watch.

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Just don't it entirely against the series producers that she was killed off. Denise Crosby wanted out because she wasn't getting enough to do with the character. And I think she mistakenly thought she had more options. She didn't and soon came running back to the series. She still makes money off of her Star Trek affiliation.

DallasEast said:

On second thought, I know a fellow member who can offer NOT ONLY a worst Hollywood moment ever that beats your suggestion (I do not think so but I only have my opinion) but also THE WORST Hollywood movie ever!

Could you, pretty please, help us out here @cml750 ?

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all i can say is that is a tough one to beat. it's so very painful to watch the poor dude trying hard to look sexy while looking like gomer pyle on his first drunken leave instead.