Who Is To Blame For The Star Wars Fiasco?

Reverend Conehead · May 21, 2019

timb2 said:
The original films that had George Lucas were awesome but these new films produced by Disney and kept Lucas out of the loop are horrible. "A Force Awakens" I blame JJ Abrahams and Disney top brass like Bob Iger for the crappy casting and "The Last Jedi" for Direction and Writing was Rian Johnson.Which has to be the most awful film in the whole series to me. ....Hollywood has been putting out garbage of late and not going to get my money for "Star Wars-The Rise of Skywalker"......After "The Last Jedi" and all the garbage of political correctness and the horrible acting.I now turn to the Darkside and joined againist this crap....There is a BOYCOTT for EPISODE 9 Movement .On Star Wars Only they did a poll and the question was "Are You Going to Boycott Episode 9"? 41% say yes they would..That is over a 3rd of fans who refuse to pay for this garbage.

It seems Hollywood has been pushing female heroes more then men probably going on 15 years now....Charlie's Angels made money because guys wanted to see how sexy the women would be,but when they saw it was just a "Girl Power" fantasy then the Charlie's Angels sequel BOMBED because everyone knew what to expect.....Plenty of movies they have been pushing. "Ghost in the Shell","Underworld" "Mad Max -Fury Road"etc....Not men to be the heroes. Basically where is the New Arnold Swartzenegger? Sly Stallone? Bruce Willis? They are not there and if you have seen "The Last Jedi"it is so obvious this stuff is being pushed on everyone.This is Princess Leia's,Rey,Laura Dern's moment,not the guys.....I just wish they would let Men be Men and Women can be beautiful and sexy still and can also be heroes,but not this veiled Hate Men Crap being pushed down my throat......

Hollywood also has been hating on families for probably the last 30 years.No more TV sitcoms like "The Brady Bunch" when they made the Brady Bunch movie, they made the family into a total joke....

Talks of a female James Bond? PLEASE!!!!

For me, Hollyweird is not getting my money anymore they have lost touch with their core audience

Hollywood only gives a crap about bringing in dollars. They've ruined both Star Wars and Star Trek.

cml750 · May 21, 2019

DallasEast said:
On second thought, I know a fellow member who can offer NOT ONLY a worst Hollywood moment ever that beats your suggestion (I do not think so but I only have my opinion) but also THE WORST Hollywood movie ever!

Could you, pretty please, help us out here @cml750 ?

Man of Steel come on down!!!! You are the next contestant on the price is right!! :muttley:

DallasEast · May 21, 2019

stasheroo said:
Just don't it entirely against the series producers that she was killed off. Denise Crosby wanted out because she wasn't getting enough to do with the character. And I think she mistakenly thought she had more options. She didn't and soon came running back to the series. She still makes money off of her Star Trek affiliation.

True, Crosby is totally responsible but killing off the character was only one option. She could have transferred to a different posting, etc.

Logically, I am glad they did it. The series evolved somewhat by killing off a main character. Supporting characters, especially anyone with a red uniform, were killed routinely in TOS. However, I had become emotionally attached to the Tasha Yar character and did not, and still do not, care for the actual outcome.

Reverend Conehead · May 21, 2019

timb2 said:
Fathers are under attack by Hollyweird. Every sitcom they have the Father who is some dumb oaf who is fat and cannot connect with his familty. He is the butt of all the jokes for the show... The wife will be beautiful but stuck in this marriage and her life would be so much better without the husband.The kids are totally disrespectful of the Father and yet the Mother they won't be.....Can you tell me any family friendly TV show in the last 20 years. The Father is the hero and not the joke???

You see the same crap in commercials .Father is a fool and the Wife is perfect.

Colony. The dad is smart and fights back against a space alien occupation. It's not s sitcom though. For sitcoms you have to go way back -- Father Knows Best and Leave It To Beaver, also Andy Griffith.

DallasEast · May 21, 2019

cml750 said:
Man of Steel come on down!!!! You are the next contestant on the price is right!!

I knew you would not let me down! :laugh:

We share an old (and huge) disagreement over MoS but our differences in opinion about it never gets old! Thanks. :bow:

Runwildboys · May 21, 2019

Reverend Conehead said:
Hollywood only gives a crap about bringing in dollars. They've ruined both Star Wars and Star Trek.

I like the Star Trek movies, even with the new timeline. I think they did a fantastic job with casting...with the possible exception of Benedict Cumberbatch as Khan. He's a great actor, but I just can't buy him as a genetically enhanced human, physically.

Reverend Conehead · May 21, 2019

YosemiteSam said:
Riker's first season was rough to accept, but he came around. He is a distinct character and that is something that is always great about Star Trek. Their characters tend to be very distinct from any other types of characters from any other type of show.

Name another show that has a character like Riker? Data? Jadzia Dax? Jordie LaForge? Spock? While you can say T'Pol or Tuvok is similar to Spock. They aren't, they are just the same race. Spock is an iconic character. It's Kirk, Spock, Bones, and Scotty that created the core vision of what Star Trek became.

I learned to love Star Trek from watching the Original Series in the 80s. I actually have more difficulty watching TOS these days though. I've forgotten many of those episdoes I knew so well as a kid, but all the series since I really love and watch over and over. I've recently started watching TOS again. I'm about 5-6 episodes in. (the first Harcourt Mudd episode) I want to start watching them again and make them part of my rotation again. Once they grab you. You're done for!

Troi was the character I had problems with. There were too many scenes like this:

Alien: We will board your ship and smash all your faces into a hot waffle iron and then shove a broomstick up your nether parts and then strangle you all to DEATH and then display your ship's broken hull on our planet as a trophy. DIE HUMANS, DIE!!!!!!!!!
Picard: Counselor?
Troi: Captain, I sense great hostility.

Runwildboys · May 21, 2019

Reverend Conehead said:
Colony. The dad is smart and fights back against a space alien occupation. It's not s sitcom though. For sitcoms you have to go way back -- Father Knows Best and Leave It To Beaver, also Andy Griffith.

Last Man Standing, Cosby,.................hmm, thought it would be a little easier to name more than just a couple.

Runwildboys · May 21, 2019

Reverend Conehead said:
Troi was the character I had problems with. There were too many scenes like this:

Alien: We will board your ship and smash all your faces into a hot waffle iron and then shove a broomstick up your nether parts and then strangle you all to DEATH and then display your ship's broken hull on our planet as a trophy. DIE HUMANS, DIE!!!!!!!!!
Picard: Counselor?
Troi: Captain, I sense great hostility.

LOL..........Yeah, they definitely could've easily done without her character.

DallasEast · May 21, 2019

Reverend Conehead said:
Troi was the character I had problems with. There were too many scenes like this:

Alien: We will board your ship and smash all your faces into a hot waffle iron and then shove a broomstick up your nether parts and then strangle you all to DEATH and then display your ship's broken hull on our planet as a trophy. DIE HUMANS, DIE!!!!!!!!!
Picard: Counselor?
Troi: Captain, I sense great hostility.

Exaggeration. Name one ST:TNG episode or movie containing both non-Enterprise crew making a flamboyant threat such as that and Troi making a similar simplified empathic observation.

I will admit Troi was pretty useless in Star Trek: First Contact. Worse acting drunk job ever. :facepalm:

CouchCoach · May 21, 2019

cml750 said:
Solo was for the most part a flop because people like me who were life long die hard Star Wars fans were so utterly disgusted with the Last Jedi bullcrap they produced they stayed away from it. That was the first Star Wars flop ever. Disney paid too much for Star Wars to produce flops. They will eventually cut Kathleen Kennedy loose because the blame lays squarely at her feet. I will stay away from Star Wars until she is no longer apart of it and I know several other people like me who feel the same way. They could have easily made Rey the strong female heroin while staying out of the political bullcrap messaging in Last Jedi.

It was meant to bridge the gap between 3 and Rogue One and establish some back story and I liked it, thought it was well done. As far as being a good idea, that I don't know but when I do a Star Wars saga binge, it does fall into place.

Runwildboys · May 21, 2019

DallasEast said:
Exaggeration. Name one ST:TNG episode or movie containing both non-Enterprise crew making a flamboyant threat such as that and Troi making a similar simplified empathic observation.

I will admit Troi was pretty useless in Star Trek: First Contact. Worse acting drunk job ever.

It was a pretty funny post though...and I maintain that the show would have been just fine, if not better without her...or at least with less of her, because her mother was comedy gold.

DallasEast · May 21, 2019

Runwildboys said:
It was a pretty funny post though...and I maintain that the show would have been just fine, if not better without her...or at least with less of her, because her mother was comedy gold.

Troi's character was a smart addition to a bridge crew. In an indirect way, I am reminded of one of Q's most famous lines. He was responding to Picard's indignation of Q introducing the Federation to The Borg costing him the lives of 18 of his crew:

"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid."

I think of Q's observation while thinking of TOS. There were a number of comments made throughout the original series run of episodes referring to Starfleet crews involuntarily or intentionally engaging in conflicts resulting in poor outcomes. It is always better being safe than sorry. The dialogue is likely not thought of by a percentage of the show's audience because everyone's main episodic experience was Kirk & Co. getting into scraps, usually deadly ones, and Kirk bluffing successfully out of bad situations.

ST:TNG's creators addressed that constant with the introduction of a ship counselor of a lead ship, especially flagships. Someone who had the captain's ear. An individual who could make independent observations of unknown delicate situations and offer helpful input to enact better situational outcomes. Additionally, he or she would be a professional psychologist, who could help maintain the emotional health of large starship crews and their families.

One thing is certain. There was one thing Picard was not, as good and legendary as he was.

He was no James Tiberius Kirk. Luckily, Picard had someone like Troi at his side.

Juggernaut · May 21, 2019

iceberg said:
as for lesbians in movies - hey, that's my favorite genre. i just don't see the need to change up historical characters like this to fit a segmented fad. if you want a gay superhero, create one from the ground up and have a day.

Runwildboys said:
Okay, I get it. The fact that this Batwoman is on the CW does greatly improve the odds of her being gay, because that seems to be something that network is trying to incorporate more and more. Fortunately that doesn't bother me at all, because so far, they haven't made it seem forced, other than a few possible exceptions, none of which immediately come to mind.

Okay. However, Batwoman, Bruce Wayne's maternal cousin Katherine "Kate" Kane, and her lesbian sexual orientation was announced at the same time the character was revealed back in 2006.

Runwildboys · May 21, 2019

Juggernaut said:
Okay. However, Batwoman, Bruce Wayne's maternal cousin Katherine "Kate" Kane, and her lesbian sexual orientation was announced at the same time the character was revealed back in 2006.

Until now, I'd never even heard of Batwoman. Maybe the fact that she's already been established as gay was part of the attraction for the CW. Either way, I don't care, it's not like I had a shot with her anyway.

iceberg · May 21, 2019

Juggernaut said:
Okay. However, Batwoman, Bruce Wayne's maternal cousin Katherine "Kate" Kane, and her lesbian sexual orientation was announced at the same time the character was revealed back in 2006.

ok - i was just going by batgirl then and never really paid that much attention after that. if this is a "new" character with a similar name who's always been this way then i was wrong.

appreciate the info.

nobody · May 21, 2019

DallasEast said:
A side question (away from the Leia using The Force discussion).

Did anyone question Kylo Ren 'freezing' a laser beam at the start of TFA?

Blasters aren't lasers. They're plasma or some other mechanism, thus travel at the slow speeds we see them travel. If they were lasers, you wouldn't see them fire because of the speed at which they travel. What Kylo did was impressive as to do what he did, he had to manipulate either time or space to the point of stopping the bolt, but not stopping it's momentum so once he released it, it continued along its path. The question is, why didn't he did that in the fights against Fin and Rey?

As for your comments about Leia in space. If that were Luke in that scene instead, I'd still be saying "DEAD!" It's simple physics. The Force doesn't just arbitrarily act. It takes a will to shape it. She was unconscious and couldn't do it. I guess Kylo could have done it, since he neglected to take the shot in the first place.

nobody · May 21, 2019

DallasEast said:
True, Crosby is totally responsible but killing off the character was only one option. She could have transferred to a different posting, etc.

Logically, I am glad they did it. The series evolved somewhat by killing off a main character. Supporting characters, especially anyone with a red uniform, were killed routinely in TOS. However, I had become emotionally attached to the Tasha Yar character and did not, and still do not, care for the actual outcome.

It was vintage Star Trek the way they brought her back though.

Roadtrip635 · May 21, 2019

timb2 said:
Fathers are under attack by Hollyweird. Every sitcom they have the Father who is some dumb oaf who is fat and cannot connect with his familty. He is the butt of all the jokes for the show... The wife will be beautiful but stuck in this marriage and her life would be so much better without the husband.The kids are totally disrespectful of the Father and yet the Mother they won't be.....Can you tell me any family friendly TV show in the last 20 years. The Father is the hero and not the joke???

You see the same crap in commercials .Father is a fool and the Wife is perfect.

It can also be said that the father's were also portrayed as always being the smart, strong one in family was one sided as well. It was always the mother that was the subservient one, she didn't work, she stayed home, took care of the kids, the mother never made decisions, the father had bowling night, lodge night, poker night, the mother was lucky if she had a PTA meeting once a month or a bake sale, the mother's life was only about taking care of the kids, the father was smarter, better educated and always and the mothers played second fiddle to the men. Society and the role women play in it has changed quite a bit since those days, more mothers work outside the house and not just in the typical "woman" jobs like secretaries. The traditional family has changed quite a bit too, there's more single/divorced families, mixed race, gay, adopted children, 2 working parents etc and more accepted than they ever used to be.

I don't watch many family based sitcoms or shows, but that 70's Show, Red wasn't a fool, nor was John Goodman on Roseanne/The Conners, on Modern Family, Phil is kinda a joke but Jay isn't and everybody is the butt of a joke, just depends on the joke or topic. The shows where the men play the fool, they are also the star of those shows because why focus on the non-funny person in a sitcom? The women may ask why not make them the funny one and the star of the show, instead of a man? Why does Marge have to stay home and take care of the kids and be the responsible one, while Homer gets more of the screen time and funny situations? Peter plays the fool on Family Guy, but he gets all the best lines, while Lois plays second fiddle.

nobody · May 21, 2019

Roadtrip635 said:
It can also be said that the father's were also portrayed as always being the smart, strong one in family was one sided as well. It was always the mother that was the subservient one, she didn't work, she stayed home, took care of the kids, the mother never made decisions, the father had bowling night, lodge night, poker night, the mother was lucky if she had a PTA meeting once a month or a bake sale, the mother's life was only about taking care of the kids, the father was smarter, better educated and always and the mothers played second fiddle to the men. Society and the role women play in it has changed quite a bit since those days, more mothers work outside the house and not just in the typical "woman" jobs like secretaries. The traditional family has changed quite a bit too, there's more single/divorced families, mixed race, gay, adopted children, 2 working parents etc and more accepted than they ever used to be.

I don't watch many family based sitcoms or shows, but that 70's Show, Red wasn't a fool, nor was John Goodman on Roseanne/The Conners, on Modern Family, Phil is kinda a joke but Jay isn't and everybody is the butt of a joke, just depends on the joke or topic. The shows where the men play the fool, they are also the star of those shows because why focus on the non-funny person in a sitcom? The women may ask why not make them the funny one and the star of the show, instead of a man? Why does Marge have to stay home and take care of the kids and be the responsible one, while Homer gets more of the screen time and funny situations? Peter plays the fool on Family Guy, but he gets all the best lines, while Lois plays second fiddle.

I Love Lucy was about Lucy and she was the funny one. So the argument that women never got a shot isn't really true. There was also the Carol Burnett show. There are other examples.

Who Is To Blame For The Star Wars Fiasco?

Reverend Conehead

Well-Known Member

cml750

Well-Known Member

DallasEast

Cowboys 24/7/365

Reverend Conehead

Well-Known Member

DallasEast

Cowboys 24/7/365

Runwildboys

Confused about stuff

Reverend Conehead

Well-Known Member

Runwildboys

Confused about stuff

Runwildboys

Confused about stuff

DallasEast

Cowboys 24/7/365

CouchCoach

Runwildboys

Confused about stuff

DallasEast

Cowboys 24/7/365

Juggernaut

Well-Known Member

Runwildboys

Confused about stuff

iceberg

rock music matters

nobody

Well-Known Member

nobody

Well-Known Member

Roadtrip635

Well-Known Member

nobody

Well-Known Member