News: Quarterback trap

Stash · May 22, 2019

dckid said:
Come on it was a different league back then.

How so exactly? What was it that was making Aikman's throw so many fewer touchdowns and so many more interceptions?

was a much better passer than Dak. Aikman had the timing offense. How many times did we see and hear Madden explain... The Ball was already out of Aikmans hands before Irvin made the cut...
Yes I do agree that having gotten over the nostalgia, Steve Young and Favre were better than Aikman.. There you go , I said it. Aikman did have the advantage of being on a better team, he didnt have the arm talent of Favre, or the mobility and playmaking of Young. You also have to remember he had the pedigree of the number 1 overall pick. All his measurables were of #1 pick quality.
Dak is not the Aikman equivalent of today's NFL.

He's his equivalent in production. Cry about "era's" to somebody else. Dan Marino was passing for 5,000 yards and 48 touchdowns 5 years before Aikman's ever entered the league. Spare me the "era" bull****.

dckid · May 22, 2019

Mr_C said:
Can’t wait for Dak to shut up these dum dums.

I would love to see Dak do that, but it wont happen.

TexasHillbilly · May 22, 2019

dckid said:
I would love to see Dak do that, but it wont happen.

Since you already know this, can you tell me who the next qb is going to be for the Cowboys? Heck of a crystal ball you got there not to mention opinion.

pansophy · May 22, 2019

stasheroo said:
You also didn't realize the absurdity of cherry picking one stat. Or comparing what one player did with 12 years NFL experience vs 3 years NFL experience.

It's clear that there's a whole lot that you "didn't realize".

Mahomes in his first year as starter managed to produce the 5th best 3rd and 8+ conversion rate, and Mayfield was 7th last year, so its not about experience. I included Romo only so people wouldn't say the scheme sucks. The scheme works with a strong passer.

This is not some random stat, but speaks directly to Dak's ability as a passer -- his primary job -- and whether he is actually worth a huge contract. He has been blah in passing situations even in his 'amazing' rookie year, and when teams realized they could clog the middle of the field he struggled a lot in year 2 and 3.

I'm hopeful that Dak is turning the corner as a passer. He and Cooper threw defenses out of shutting down the middle of the field last year and things started to open up for Jarwin and Beasley. So we'll see.

But I don't know why so many people are afraid to see Dak's flaws -- he's not a top 5 passer and may never be. He does have a lot of good-to-great qualities, but that doesn't necessarily mean that he should have a top QB contract. You asked for some stats and I gave you some, and its something I have been posting about since Dak became a starter.

pansophy · May 22, 2019

blueblood70 · May 22, 2019

dckid said:
https://bleacherreport.com/articles...om&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=editorial

Great article talking about the QB trap that the Vikings fell into last off season. Sounds a heck of a lot like the situation we are headed towards with Dak.

The Vikings flew straight into the pitcher plant with Cousins by paying a premium for a journeyman whose only hope for an MVP season comes from being surrounded by a superteam.

Just because the market says $30 million for your QB who is hitting Free agency at the right time doesn't mean he is Brees, Wilson, Rodgers, Luck.
Dak is an average starter. You can win with him, he won't kill you with a 5 turnover game. I never expect him to carry this team because I know what to expect. He has a solid floor and a low celing. Not someone I want to pay 30 million a year for.
All the Dak lovers can spin doctor this all day, but if you are actually honest with yourself. Dak is not an elite QB, and I am not insulting him. He is what he is. A good QB who should be paid fairly. To me that number is what Foles is getting in Jacksonville.

there were more problems then Cousins last year what was his numbers like 30-10 not dissimilar to Rogers , when you have a losing season with qb with numbers like that , its more then the QB..i agree overpaying for QB is bad news but its the current market trend..

these remind me of Romo Days, look at Rivers, good number son bad teams..its not always the QB, sure they close few games gambling but they feel they have too given the team around them and the coaches goin g all out air assault and the QB being depended on too much..

you can win with less QBs lie the Vikes did with CaseK but you have to be nearly dominant with the Running game, Oline, and defense and perfect coaching to do it.. so they hope a QB can offest not being perfect..

Doomsday101 · May 22, 2019

pansophy said:
Mahomes in his first year as starter managed to produce the 5th best 3rd and 8+ conversion rate, and Mayfield was 7th last year, so its not about experience. I included Romo only so people wouldn't say the scheme sucks. The scheme works with a strong passer.

This is not some random stat, but speaks directly to Dak's ability as a passer -- his primary job -- and whether he is actually worth a huge contract. He has been blah in passing situations even in his 'amazing' rookie year, and when teams realized they could clog the middle of the field he struggled a lot in year 2 and 3.

I'm hopeful that Dak is turning the corner as a passer. He and Cooper threw defenses out of shutting down the middle of the field last year and things started to open up for Jarwin and Beasley. So we'll see.

But I don't know why so many people are afraid to see Dak's flaws -- he's not a top 5 passer and may never be. He does have a lot of good-to-great qualities, but that doesn't necessarily mean that he should have a top QB contract. You asked for some stats and I gave you some, and its something I have been posting about since Dak became a starter.

I think there is still much improvement that Dak must work on and at this stage do not see him as elite. As for his contract it is hard to argue on a contract that has not been done. There are rumors about the numbers but it is just that rumors until a contract is completed.

dckid · May 22, 2019

stasheroo said:
How so exactly? What was it that was making Aikman's throw so many fewer touchdowns and so many more interceptions?
First off Aikman wasn't captain checkdown.

He's his equivalent in production. Cry about "era's" to somebody else.Dan Marino was passing for 5,000 yards and 48 touchdowns 5 years before Aikman's ever entered the league. Spare me the "era" bull****.

You need to seriously take back this era statement you just made. Please look at numbers which seem to make a big deal out of.

Yes in 1984 Marino had the best season by any QB ever. Marino was a freak of nature. How many other QB's threw for 4K yards during that time.
Maybe looking at 20 years of passing yards will give you something to ponder. Year and the number of QB's who threw for 4K yards

80- 2 QB's
81-1 QB
82-Stike
83-1 QB
84- 3 QB's
85- 1 QB
86--2 QB
87-Strike
88-1 QB
89-1 QB
90-1 QB
91-1 QB
92-1 QB
93-1 QB
94- 3 QB
95- 5 QB
96 -3- QB
97-0 QB
98 -2 QB
99 -5 QB
00 - 3 QB

Stash · May 22, 2019

pansophy said:
Mahomes in his first year as starter managed to produce the 5th best 3rd and 8+ conversion rate, and Mayfield was 7th last year, so its not about experience. I included Romo only so people wouldn't say the scheme sucks. The scheme works with a strong passer.

It's cherry picking of the worst kind. You know it, I know , everybody knows it. If that one small stat is all you've got, you've truly got nothing.

As for "strong passer", yeah I think everyone expects Dak to be a stronger passer by year 12, the way Romo was. Everybody knows you cherry picked his best year rather than actually using comparable years in their careers. You're not fooling anybody.

This is not some random stat, but speaks directly to Dak's ability as a passer -- his primary job -- and whether he is actually worth a huge contract. He has been blah in passing situations even in his 'amazing' rookie year, and when teams realized they could clog the middle of the field he struggled a lot in year 2 and 3.

Actually, it's a **** stat that means nothing to anyone other than you. If you want to bring up "clutch", we can go there. But spoiler alert, you'll look even worse.

I'm hopeful that Dak is turning the corner as a passer. He and Cooper threw defenses out of shutting down the middle of the field last year and things started to open up for Jarwin and Beasley. So we'll see.

The returns were excellent. There is still work to be done, but everyone's numbers rose dramatically.

But I don't know why so many people are afraid to see Dak's flaws -- he's not a top 5 passer and may never be. He does have a lot of good-to-great qualities, but that doesn't necessarily mean that he should have a top QB contract.

Where is this list of "top 5 passers"? It sounds like more subjective opinion, bereft of any factual support.

You asked for some stats and I gave you some, and its something I have been posting about since Dak became a starter.

You need to do better. A whole lot better. That "stat" is crap. Cherry picked, "found something!" crap.

Stash · May 22, 2019

dckid said:
You need to seriously take back this era statement you just made. Please look at numbers which seem to make a big deal out of.

Yes in 1984 Marino had the best season by any QB ever. Marino was a freak of nature. How many other QB's threw for 4K yards during that time.
Maybe looking at 20 years of passing yards will give you something to ponder. Year and the number of QB's who threw for 4K yards

80- 2 QB's
81-1 QB
82-Stike
83-1 QB
84- 3 QB's
85- 1 QB
86--2 QB
87-Strike
88-1 QB
89-1 QB
90-1 QB
91-1 QB
92-1 QB
93-1 QB
94- 3 QB
95- 5 QB
96 -3- QB
97-0 QB
98 -2 QB
99 -5 QB
00 - 3 QB

Which one is Aikman?

dckid · May 22, 2019

stasheroo said:
Which one is Aikman?

None.
I think your era argument went down the drain.

Hardline · May 22, 2019

stasheroo said:
And yet Dak's numbers blow Aikman's out of the water. Should we bring them up?

Sure If you want to bring up Super Bowls and the Hall of Fame as well

Hardline · May 22, 2019

PJTHEDOORS said:
How were those rings doing collecting dust without Emmitt (when he sat out) the beginning of 1995?

How are Emmitts rings doing without Troy Aikman as his starting QB?

dckid · May 22, 2019

Hardline said:
Sure If you want to bring up Super Bowls and the Hall of Fame as well

We have to wait and see on Dak before comparing career numbers.
We all know Aikman was not a stat sheet guy, but he also wasn't thrown the ball at guys feet and overthrowing run of the mill throws.

HungryLion · May 22, 2019

Whyjerry said:
Hard to say. Have to ask Mrs. Cousins and Dak's girlfriend to know the answer to that...

As far as football goes - Dak has those intangibles. Tough to measure whatever it is but the guy is a winner. I also think he is a better passer than many here give him credit for. He will never be Dan Marino but Dak can throw the ball. The poor OL play and scheme have held him back some in my opinion.

Lol. U got me on that.

Hardline · May 22, 2019

dckid said:
We have to wait and see on Dak before comparing career numbers.
We all know Aikman was not a stat sheet guy, but he also wasn't thrown the ball at guys feet and overthrowing run of the mill throws.

Emmitt Smith is the only reason Aikman doesn't have Dan Marino type numbers

dckid · May 22, 2019

The whole reason for this thread was for the Front office to really understand what they are getting into by signing Dak to a 30 million dollar contract. I wholeheartedly believe these large contracts are for Franchise QB's , not the 15th best QB in the league. Let some other team make that mistake.

dckid · May 22, 2019

Hardline said:
Emmitt Smith is the only reason Aikman doesn't have Dan Marino type numbers

Lol, now I cant tell if you are just trolling.

HungryLion · May 22, 2019

pansophy said:
3rd and 8+ 1st down conversion rate:
2014 Romo: 33.7% (2nd in league)
2016 Dak: 22.9% (18th in league)
2017 Dak: 20% (24th in league)
2018 Dak: 20.8% (22nd in league)

You’re right. Dak isn’t the best at picking up 3rd and long. Ideally he brings that average to above league average.

Romo was one of the best at that his whole career.

That being said, relying on converting a high percentage of 3rd and longs isn’t a recipe for overall offensive success either.

dckid · May 22, 2019

DakPresgoat said:
You’re right. Dak isn’t the best at picking up 3rd and long. Ideally he brings that average to above league average.

Romo was one of the best at that his whole career.

That being said, relying on converting a high percentage of 3rd and longs isn’t a recipe for overall offensive success either.

Let's all agree to one thing.. Its great being the QB of the Cowboys. If you have any success, you will have fame & fortune thrown at you.
Only a few really deserve it..

News: Quarterback trap

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