Who Is To Blame For The Star Wars Fiasco?

nobody · May 29, 2019

LittleBoyBlue said:
If you analyze the history of Star Wars... and I mean everything ever put out there.... tv shows, books, movies... there may be something greater happening.

I agreed with your opinion initially. There are soooo many good possibilities that can happen here in ep IX.
Now, do I trust the studio and specially JJ Abrams. Nope.

But there is still a chance.

I think if they do manage to make a decent movie, any "greatness" will be pulled out of their butts rather than be part of some overarching plan that makes the new trilogy some masterpiece.
There were sooo many good possibilities that could have happened in VIII, but they ignored every single one and put in a ton of garbage.
So why would I have any expectation or hope for their competence to redeem things with IX?

Nah, that ship has sailed. VII was a blatant ripoff of IV that was mostly written like bad fanfic. VIII doubled down on the bad fanfic and was a complete disaster done to promote agenda and "subvert expectations." IX? I simply don't care and won't be seeing it.

Solo was enjoyable, but not great. Rogue One was was the only one that I'd consider good.

When writing a trilogy that is supposed to be an intricately linked story, you at least need an outline of events for the story for all three. Details can change, but the core is there. The original trilogy was a fluke in that it had several parents and it worked.

Rather than have a solitary vision for a story that was modified as needed, Kathleen Kennedy tried to have different people make individual movies that were loosely related and thought it would work. Once the disaster of Last Jedi hit, Disney recognized that it erred and so they brought back Abrams for IX to try to fix his vision for the trilogy. Nevermind that his vision included a copy of Ep IV. Abrams is actually well-known for lifting ideas from other things and changing it up a little and presenting it as something new. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

They displayed a complete lack of understanding of the established rules for the story and broke them left and right.

Sadly, the main story is a lost cause.

I'm sort of interested in the trilogy that will be helmed by the showrunners of Game of Thrones, but the way they did season 8 of that show lessens my enthusiasm. Rian Johnson's planned trilogy is something I'll avoid like the plague. I might watch the Mandalorian tv series because Jon Favreau is involved in its creation.

Runwildboys · May 29, 2019

DeathMonkey said:
I think if they do manage to make a decent movie, any "greatness" will be pulled out of their butts rather than be part of some overarching plan that makes the new trilogy some masterpiece.
There were sooo many good possibilities that could have happened in VIII, but they ignored every single one and put in a ton of garbage.
So why would I have any expectation or hope for their competence to redeem things with IX?

Nah, that ship has sailed. VII was a blatant ripoff of IV that was mostly written like bad fanfic. VIII doubled down on the bad fanfic and was a complete disaster done to promote agenda and "subvert expectations." IX? I simply don't care and won't be seeing it.

Solo was enjoyable, but not great. Rogue One was was the only one that I'd consider good.

When writing a trilogy that is supposed to be an intricately linked story, you at least need an outline of events for the story for all three. Details can change, but the core is there. The original trilogy was a fluke in that it had several parents and it worked.

Rather than have a solitary vision for a story that was modified as needed, Kathleen Kennedy tried to have different people make individual movies that were loosely related and thought it would work. Once the disaster of Last Jedi hit, Disney recognized that it erred and so they brought back Abrams for IX to try to fix his vision for the trilogy. Nevermind that his vision included a copy of Ep IV. Abrams is actually well-known for lifting ideas from other things and changing it up a little and presenting it as something new. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

They displayed a complete lack of understanding of the established rules for the story and broke them left and right.

Sadly, the main story is a lost cause.

I'm sort of interested in the trilogy that will be helmed by the showrunners of Game of Thrones, but the way they did season 8 of that show lessens my enthusiasm. Rian Johnson's planned trilogy is something I'll avoid like the plague. I might watch the Mandalorian tv series because Jon Favreau is involved in its creation.

Changing the whole tone of the franchise to a bad comedy was a bad idea too. I kinda got the sense it was all gonna tank, when they changed the ending of Return of the Jedi, inserting a young Anakin's spirit instead of the redeemed Darth Vader.

Stash · May 29, 2019

DeathMonkey said:
I think if they do manage to make a decent movie, any "greatness" will be pulled out of their butts rather than be part of some overarching plan that makes the new trilogy some masterpiece.
There were sooo many good possibilities that could have happened in VIII, but they ignored every single one and put in a ton of garbage.
So why would I have any expectation or hope for their competence to redeem things with IX?

Nah, that ship has sailed. VII was a blatant ripoff of IV that was mostly written like bad fanfic. VIII doubled down on the bad fanfic and was a complete disaster done to promote agenda and "subvert expectations." IX? I simply don't care and won't be seeing it.

Solo was enjoyable, but not great. Rogue One was was the only one that I'd consider good.

When writing a trilogy that is supposed to be an intricately linked story, you at least need an outline of events for the story for all three. Details can change, but the core is there. The original trilogy was a fluke in that it had several parents and it worked.

Rather than have a solitary vision for a story that was modified as needed, Kathleen Kennedy tried to have different people make individual movies that were loosely related and thought it would work. Once the disaster of Last Jedi hit, Disney recognized that it erred and so they brought back Abrams for IX to try to fix his vision for the trilogy. Nevermind that his vision included a copy of Ep IV. Abrams is actually well-known for lifting ideas from other things and changing it up a little and presenting it as something new. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

They displayed a complete lack of understanding of the established rules for the story and broke them left and right.

Sadly, the main story is a lost cause.

I'm sort of interested in the trilogy that will be helmed by the showrunners of Game of Thrones, but the way they did season 8 of that show lessens my enthusiasm. Rian Johnson's planned trilogy is something I'll avoid like the plague. I might watch the Mandalorian tv series because Jon Favreau is involved in its creation.

This is both true, and shocking. And a large part of the problem arises from Abrams' style of storytelling and his "mystery boxes" that he sets up and sometimes has a plan form and sometime doesn't. It's what made Lost both great and terrible, because sometimes, he created boxes that he himself had nothing of substance to fill them with and they ultimately fell flat.

What shocks me if how the head of Lucasfilm (Kennedy) would allow things like this to occur! Any executive worth the job knows exactly what you said, that these things need careful and meticulous planning and not making things up as you go along.

Between the Last Jedi issues and backlash, and the problems and and the firing of those directors and overall disappointment of Solo, as well as the issues with Trevorrow and his leaving episode IX, I would have expected Kennedy to have been fired by now. I can't help but wonder if her employment was a Lucas condition for the sale to Disney? One can only hope she does the right thing and steps down after the Rise of Skywalker is released and the franchise can get a needed reshaping.

Runwildboys · May 29, 2019

stasheroo said:
This is both true, and shocking. And a large part of the problem arises from Abrams' style of storytelling and his "mystery boxes" that he sets up and sometimes has a plan form and sometime doesn't. It's what made Lost both great and terrible, because sometimes, he created boxes that he himself had nothing of substance to fill them with and they ultimately fell flat.

What shocks me if how the head of Lucasfilm (Kennedy) would allow things like this to occur! Any executive worth the job knows exactly what you said, that these things need careful and meticulous planning and not making things up as you go along.

Between the Last Jedi issues and backlash, and the problems and and the firing of those directors and overall disappointment of Solo, as well as the issues with Trevorrow and his leaving episode IX, I would have expected Kennedy to have been fired by now. I can't help but wonder if her employment was a Lucas condition for the sale to Disney? One can only hope she does the right thing and steps down after the Rise of Skywalker is released and the franchise can get a needed reshaping.

So, were none of the more recent stories books, before making the movies?

timb2 · May 30, 2019

Runwildboys said:
Well first, it should open with Rey dancing in a gentlemen's club.

Who is casted as Rey?

timb2 · May 30, 2019

Roadtrip635 said:
It worked for Jessica Alba in Sin City 2.

It worked for Salma Hayek in "Dusk til Dawn".

Stash · May 30, 2019

Runwildboys said:
So, were none of the more recent stories books, before making the movies?

No, they did have a trilogy of books that was supposed to transition from Return of the Jedi into the new trilogy - referred to as the Aftermath trilogy - but these new films weren't based on any previously written books.

LittleBoyBlue · May 30, 2019

DeathMonkey said:
I think if they do manage to make a decent movie, any "greatness" will be pulled out of their butts rather than be part of some overarching plan that makes the new trilogy some masterpiece.
There were sooo many good possibilities that could have happened in VIII, but they ignored every single one and put in a ton of garbage.
So why would I have any expectation or hope for their competence to redeem things with IX?

Nah, that ship has sailed. VII was a blatant ripoff of IV that was mostly written like bad fanfic. VIII doubled down on the bad fanfic and was a complete disaster done to promote agenda and "subvert expectations." IX? I simply don't care and won't be seeing it.

Solo was enjoyable, but not great. Rogue One was was the only one that I'd consider good.

When writing a trilogy that is supposed to be an intricately linked story, you at least need an outline of events for the story for all three. Details can change, but the core is there. The original trilogy was a fluke in that it had several parents and it worked.

Rather than have a solitary vision for a story that was modified as needed, Kathleen Kennedy tried to have different people make individual movies that were loosely related and thought it would work. Once the disaster of Last Jedi hit, Disney recognized that it erred and so they brought back Abrams for IX to try to fix his vision for the trilogy. Nevermind that his vision included a copy of Ep IV. Abrams is actually well-known for lifting ideas from other things and changing it up a little and presenting it as something new. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

They displayed a complete lack of understanding of the established rules for the story and broke them left and right.

Sadly, the main story is a lost cause.

I'm sort of interested in the trilogy that will be helmed by the showrunners of Game of Thrones, but the way they did season 8 of that show lessens my enthusiasm. Rian Johnson's planned trilogy is something I'll avoid like the plague. I might watch the Mandalorian tv series because Jon Favreau is involved in its creation.

I hope we are both wrong about them pulling great movie out of their butts vs overarching plan. I really hope for latter.

I have same concerns about GOT peeps doing SWTOR.

Color me concerned for both. But... again, hoping they get it right.

LittleBoyBlue · May 30, 2019

stasheroo said:
This is both true, and shocking. And a large part of the problem arises from Abrams' style of storytelling and his "mystery boxes" that he sets up and sometimes has a plan form and sometime doesn't. It's what made Lost both great and terrible, because sometimes, he created boxes that he himself had nothing of substance to fill them with and they ultimately fell flat.

What shocks me if how the head of Lucasfilm (Kennedy) would allow things like this to occur! Any executive worth the job knows exactly what you said, that these things need careful and meticulous planning and not making things up as you go along.

Between the Last Jedi issues and backlash, and the problems and and the firing of those directors and overall disappointment of Solo, as well as the issues with Trevorrow and his leaving episode IX, I would have expected Kennedy to have been fired by now. I can't help but wonder if her employment was a Lucas condition for the sale to Disney? One can only hope she does the right thing and steps down after the Rise of Skywalker is released and the franchise can get a needed reshaping.

Kennedy isn’t going anywhere ... prior Lucas influence or not.
$3.3+ billion for 2 parts of trilogy... thus far...

Easily $5 billion when this trilogy is done

Stash · May 30, 2019

LittleBoyBlue said:
Kennedy isn’t going anywhere ... prior Lucas influence or not.
$3.3+ billion for 2 parts of trilogy... thus far...

Easily $5 billion when this trilogy is done

Is that supposed to be a 'great accomplishment' on her part? When you take a can't miss property like Star Wars and manage to create a film that alienated a large portion of the fan base (Last Jedi) while shuffling through directors and having the first legitimate bomb in the franchise history in Solo?

Star Wars has made money DESPITE her, not because of her.

nobody · May 30, 2019

stasheroo said:
This is both true, and shocking. And a large part of the problem arises from Abrams' style of storytelling and his "mystery boxes" that he sets up and sometimes has a plan form and sometime doesn't. It's what made Lost both great and terrible, because sometimes, he created boxes that he himself had nothing of substance to fill them with and they ultimately fell flat.

What shocks me if how the head of Lucasfilm (Kennedy) would allow things like this to occur! Any executive worth the job knows exactly what you said, that these things need careful and meticulous planning and not making things up as you go along.

Between the Last Jedi issues and backlash, and the problems and and the firing of those directors and overall disappointment of Solo, as well as the issues with Trevorrow and his leaving episode IX, I would have expected Kennedy to have been fired by now. I can't help but wonder if her employment was a Lucas condition for the sale to Disney? One can only hope she does the right thing and steps down after the Rise of Skywalker is released and the franchise can get a needed reshaping.

Someone claimed that a Disney exec leaked info to them that they wanted to fire Kennedy but nobody they asked would take the job, so they were stuck with her for now. I know if I was asked, I'd say "not until she messes up IX and I get a fresh start without having to fix story someone else messed up."

Runwildboys · May 30, 2019

stasheroo said:
No, they did have a trilogy of books that was supposed to transition from Return of the Jedi into the new trilogy - referred to as the Aftermath trilogy - but these new films weren't based on any previously written books.

Brilliant. Take a time proven method and throw it out the window, then make up the story as you go along, like a third grader.

Stash · May 30, 2019

DeathMonkey said:
Someone claimed that a Disney exec leaked info to them that they wanted to fire Kennedy but nobody they asked would take the job, so they were stuck with her for now. I know if I was asked, I'd say "not until she messes up IX and I get a fresh start without having to fix story someone else messed up."

That's my guess, that she steps down (with a little shove) and "retires" and someone else takes over. And hopefully, whoever that next person is, they're better organized and less agenda driven that she was. For someone's that's sat in "the big chair" for as few years as she has, she's already had more than enough of her share of stumbles.

And again, given the reigns to the license to print money that Star Wars is, that's pretty unforgivable. Made even more glaring by the fact that Disney is having unparalleled success on the other side of the house in Marvel.

cml750 · May 30, 2019

stasheroo said:
Is that supposed to be a 'great accomplishment' on her part? When you take a can't miss property like Star Wars and manage to create a film that alienated a large portion of the fan base (Last Jedi) while shuffling through directors and having the first legitimate bomb in the franchise history in Solo?

Star Wars has made money DESPITE her, not because of her.

Stash · May 30, 2019

Runwildboys said:
Brilliant. Take a time proven method and throw it out the window, then make up the story as you go along, like a third grader.

That's essentially what they did, and their quotes in interviews even prove it. They had the loosest of storylines and plans in place and essentially allowed these "brilliant young filmmakers" to do whatever they wanted with their multi-billion dollar property.

And now, Abrams is scrambling to try to "fix it" and end up with a coherent resolution to the mess they put themselves in, him included.

Inexcusable.

And watch how much of what happened in the Last Jedi is changed and "retconned", that's always your best evidence for how badly the people working on a project have screwed it up. (See Fox's X-Men)

cml750 · May 30, 2019

stasheroo said:
That's my guess, that she steps down (with a little shove) and "retires" and someone else takes over. And hopefully, whoever that next person is, they're better organized and less agenda driven that she was. For someone's that's sat in "the big chair" for as few years as she has, she's already had more than enough of her share of stumbles.

And again, given the reigns to the license to print money that Star Wars is, that's pretty unforgivable. Made even more glaring by the fact that Disney is having unparalleled success on the other side of the house in Marvel.

I hope that happens and if it does I would hope they put someone in charge who is actually a Star Wars fan. They also need good writers and good directors who grew up as Star War fans. They need original ideas. The Force Awakens was episode IV redone. While it was not nearly as bad as The Last Jedi, why did they go in that direction and once they did why tear it all down in the Last Jedi? The blame has to lie squarely at the feet of Kennedy. She has to go!!! I will not help finance anything Star Wars with my money while she is in charge.

Stash · May 30, 2019

cml750 said:
I hope that happens and if it does I would hope they put someone in charge who is actually a Star Wars fan. They also need good writers and good directors who grew up as Star War fans. They need original ideas. The Force Awakens was episode IV redone. While it was not nearly as bad as The Last Jedi, why did they go in that direction and once they did why tear it all down in the Last Jedi? The blame has to lie squarely at the feet of Kennedy. She has to go!!! I will not help finance anything Star Wars with my money while she is in charge.

Like Truman said, "the buck stops here". The head of any organization is ultimately responsible for the results, both positive and negative. And that means Kennedy. The people at Disney can't be happy with fan backlash, diminishing returns and now an uncertain future. There's too much riding on the Star Wars intellectual property to have it underperforming.

Runwildboys · May 30, 2019

stasheroo said:
Like Truman said, "the buck stop saying here". The head of any organization is ultimately responsible for the results, both positive and negative. And that means Kennedy. The people at Disney can't be happy with fan back,ash, diminishing returns and now an uncertain future. There's too much riding on the Star Wars intellectual property to have it underperforming.

Autocorrect sucks, doesn't it?

Stash · May 30, 2019

Runwildboys said:
Autocorrect sucks, doesn't it?

Yes it does!
:banghead:

I fixed it, thanks for the heads up!
:thumbup:

iceberg · May 30, 2019

stasheroo said:
No, they did have a trilogy of books that was supposed to transition from Return of the Jedi into the new trilogy - referred to as the Aftermath trilogy - but these new films weren't based on any previously written books.

and that's why i hate the series now and am done with it.

4-6 - round 1
1-3 - round 2
7-9 - round 3

we've been waiting since what, 1977, for 7-9 and all we got was a "woke" version of 4 and a load of garbage that included a leaky alien tit.

Who Is To Blame For The Star Wars Fiasco?

nobody

Well-Known Member

Runwildboys

Confused about stuff

Stash

Runwildboys

Confused about stuff

timb2

Well-Known Member

timb2

Well-Known Member

Stash

LittleBoyBlue

Redvolution

LittleBoyBlue

Redvolution

Stash

nobody

Well-Known Member

Runwildboys

Confused about stuff

Stash

cml750

Well-Known Member

Stash

cml750

Well-Known Member

Stash

Runwildboys

Confused about stuff

Stash

iceberg

rock music matters