2018: 23 years old; 4 years; 60 Million; 45 GTD

Hardline

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gimmesix said:
Investing in players is reflective of drafting. Ideally, you'd love to continually draft players who can be ready to step into the starter's shoes so you don't have to pay what it takes to retain the starter when he reaches free agency. For example, ideally Pollard would show that we don't need to invest in Elliott. Unfortunately, it doesn't happen that way. The draft is hit and miss, so you weigh your options. If you want to field a competitive team, you don't downgrade the talent just because of injury risk, etc. You try to put the best team you can out there while minding how you spread your cap dollar, what you value most, etc.

I think it's silly to make a blanket statement that RB is the most wasteful position to invest heavily in, because there are lots of factors that can affect that, most dealing with the running back you have compared to what you have to replace him with. There comes a point where the investment is not worth the return (see DeMarco Murray), but it can sometimes be difficult to determine when you've reached that point, especially if your efforts to find a suitable replacement have failed, which statistically is a pretty good possibility.

This is from https://www.arrowheadpride.com/2015...e-statistics-tell-us-about-the-draft-by-round in 2015:

Running Backs
The position has been devalued over the years but the statistics still show that it is better to draft early if you are looking for a starter.

  • Of the 207 players drafted 33 have become starters for half their careers. This gives an indication that there is a lot of Running Back By Committee (RBBC).
  • There is a very high bust rate for RBs. The first round gives you a 58% chance of finding a starter followed by 25% in the second, 16% in the third, 11% in the fourth, 9% in the fifth, 6% in the sixth and 0% in the 7th.
  • If you rank the rounds by the total RBs drafted you find that the greatest number are drafted in the 7th, followed by the 4th, 6th, 2nd, 3rd, 1st, and 5th.
If you want a stud RB, they are likely to come from the first round. If you are looking for depth, the fourth round seems to be the place to go. This year Todd Gurley and Melvin Gordon have the first round grades based on statistics it seems likely that one of the two will be a bust. However, this could be like 2007 when AP and Beastmode went in the first round. For the Chiefs, since 2007 they have taken a RB every draft except 2010. Both Charles and Davis were the highest drafted both coming in the 3rd round.
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Thank you
 

dckid

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OmerV said:
Tell me what WR or DE or any other player at any position besides QB can lead his team to the Super Bowl. What an elite RB can do is give the offense another way to be highly effective even in games where the passing offense sputters. The Cowboys best coaches (Landry and Jimmy) both believed that the more weapons the opposing defense had to worry about, the more effective the offense would be. I think that still holds true. It's hard to stop an offense when a defense can't focus it's efforts on either the run or passing game of the opponent for fear that they other will take advantage.
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You make a solid point but the crux of my point is, can you get close to player X's production at a fraction of the cost. That is what the current CBA formula is. Just go back and look past 20 SB winners, it is hard to find a team that was RB centric.
Maybe the Hawks in 2012, one of the New England years with Corey Dillon and that is me grasping over that time period.
It's mostly Brady, Manning, Big Ben, Rodgers, Wilson
Then the lighting strikes ( Eli, Nick Foles, Brad Johnson)

The league has changed, and having a RB that can complement your offense is the formula vs give the RB the ball 30 times and slow roll the game and win a defensive battle. Those days are done. The quicker we realize it the better.
 

QuincyCarterEra

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Hardline said:
Quick. Let's see those Hall of Fame RBs.
The game is still fundamentally the same. It doesn't matter if it's the 90s or now.
Zero correlation in your theory.
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That's exactly what I thought. You know that zero substance thing I was talking about?

Bobby Mitchell, Leroy Kelly, and Tony Canadeo all in the HOF. Arian Foster probably gets in too. Now your turn. Bo Jackson Terrell Davis, and Larry Brown were all late rounders as well.

You don't think football has fundamentally changed since the mid 90's..... holy hell dig yourself deeper.

Zero correlation to RBs being replaceable by trying to list the RBs that weren't adequately replaced by their stand ins? Nevermind you can't even compete in a debate, this isn't a fair fight. You aren't capable of original thought which has been proven as naseum.
 
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CowboyRoy

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CowboyRoy said:
RB by committee. Draft them in rounds 3 and lower, use em up, draft em, use em up, don't pay em, repeat.
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Now if your going to have an average Oline and not spend the money there, them maybe you find a stud and pay him.

But since your ENTIRE offense relies on your Oline, I would spend the money there, like the Cowboys have done.

Remember 7 years ago when Jones was telling us that "with a QB like Romo, you can go cheep on the Oline". Thank goodness he woke up there.
 
OmerV

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dckid said:
You make a solid point but the crux of my point is, can you get close to player X's production at a fraction of the cost. That is what the current CBA formula is. Just go back and look past 20 SB winners, it is hard to find a team that was RB centric.
Maybe the Hawks in 2012, one of the New England years with Corey Dillon and that is me grasping over that time period.
It's mostly Brady, Manning, Big Ben, Rodgers, Wilson
Then the lighting strikes ( Eli, Nick Foles, Brad Johnson)

The league has changed, and having a RB that can complement your offense is the formula vs give the RB the ball 30 times and slow roll the game and win a defensive battle. Those days are done. The quicker we realize it the better.
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I don't disagree that at times you can get something at least in the general ballpark of the same production at a fraction of the cost (although Zeke has the potential for 1,600 - 1,800 rushing yards, which is unlikely to be found at a fraction of the cost), but that's true of other positions, and there has to be a point where a team decides to go with the best player at some positions and not the just the cheaper, poor man's facsimile thereof. If they don't the team will end up perpetually a mid to lower level team.
 
CowboyRoy

CowboyRoy

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Hardline said:
Only if you don't have an elite RB do you take that approach
Tony Dorsett and Emmitt Smith didn't have RB by committee for a very good reason
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This all goes in line with the theory that you DONT take a RB high or especially with the 4th pick in the draft. Because then you are more apt to have to resign him to make that investment work.

We don't HAVE to pay Zeke for another two years. He has 2 years left. Then you can franchise him for two years. See where we are in two years. Could be a big difference from now. Run him into the ground until then.
 

dckid

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CowboyRoy said:
This all goes in line with the theory that you DONT take a RB high or especially with the 4th pick in the draft. Because then you are more apt to have to resign him to make that investment work.

We don't HAVE to pay Zeke for another two years. He has 2 years left. Then you can franchise him for two years. See where we are in two years. Could be a big difference from now. Run him into the ground until then.
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You and I like that but Zeke would be crazy to no hold out after this year. Just look at the Bell situation. These players want to get paid, it's just the nature of the league.
 
jazzcat22

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QuincyCarterEra said:
Jazz, how would you list of most easily replaceable positions go? 1-3 or 1-5 or whatever.
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It depends on the team, what makes that team go.

Actually some fans would say the QB if they do not like the QB.
This team tried the RBBC thing, and it did not work, even with the OL they had. We seen how the running game was effected as well without a good QB when Romo was injured as well.
We seen that WRBC did not work either. We seen with no Zeke, how it effected the team, even though Tyron was out a few games also.

Go back to the 90's. Dallas won without Aikman, and without Irvin. But remove Emmitt, and they lost or struggled to win.
so you really can't say one position is more replaceable over another, as it is different for each team.

Steelers seemed to replaced Bell last year with Conner, or whatever his name is. But yet they missed the playoffs without Bell.
I know it is not all just the RB as it is a dream sport. But if fans on here think it is about a plug and play RB, the it is open game to say the RB mattered in that case and others.

If not for Barkley in NY getting 10,000 touches a game, they may not have won 1 game last year. He was their offense as Zeke is here for the most part.
So I can't answer your question truly. But if I had to, I will say if you have 3 strong DL or 4 strong OL, those would be on my top of the list, then maybe CB. Then WR. Why, because you can have depth there, as opposed to 1 or 2 RB's on the roster.
 
America's Cowboy

America's Cowboy

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Todd Gurley is not built as thick or as strong as Zeke. Big mistake paying top dollar to those smaller/thinner/more fragile RBs. You pay the thicker/stronger/durable ones like Zeke.
 

tyke1doe

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Gurley came into the league with knee issues. Zeke didn't (although we have to be concerned about his stupidity off the field).
Had Gurley not had knee issues, he likely would have been a top 5 pick. So it doesn't surprise me that he's having troubles now, especially with the load the Rams put on him.
 
eromeopolk

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Toruk_Makto said:
That is what the Rams signed up for this time last year.

And now....



The point?

RB is the most wasteful position to invest heavily in. Period.

The Rams are 1 year into a new deal for Gurley and in their heart of hearts they're counting down the days until 2022 when they can get out from under the it.
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So you were the guys advising Jerry not to pay Emmitt Smith in 1993. How did that work out?

Cowboys have showed you what the offense they like to run looks like without a great RB...12-4 with Demarco Murray, 4-12 without Demarco Murray, 13-3 with Zeke Elliott, 3-3 without Zeke Elliott finishing 9-7, and 10-6 with Zeke Elliott.

They will sign Dak after mid year if producing a playoff season, they will sign Cooper after franchise tag, and if he is still putting up 1500 yds, with 50 catches, they will sign Elliott after/during the 2020 .
 
Seven

Seven

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ClappingCarrot said:
I tend to agree most of the time. After all, we've had 3rd and 4th round running backs make Pro Bowl/All Pro very recently in Demarco Murray and Marion Barber III.

However. Zeke has generational type talent. We'd be out of our mind to not keep him until he's 27-28 years old.
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Zeke is a special player, teammate and locker room guy...……..generational player, indeed. I couldn't agree more.
 
Rockport

Rockport

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Toruk_Makto said:
That is what the Rams signed up for this time last year.

And now....



The point?

RB is the most wasteful position to invest heavily in. Period.

The Rams are 1 year into a new deal for Gurley and in their heart of hearts they're counting down the days until 2022 when they can get out from under the it.
Click to expand...

Apples and oranges. Maybe you're too young to remember Emmitt Smith.
 
BigCatMonaco

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He was injured in college and has arthritis.


This isn’t a zeke comparison at all.

But, for the record, gurley has 40 rushing and receiving TDS over the last 2 seasons too.
 
Screw The Hall

Screw The Hall

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It’s true, no position goes from 200 mph to a blown engine overnight quite like RB does. Happens all the time.
 
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