Things we should be learning from Pats

beware_d-ware

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Belichick is in a league of his own as a team builder. Many have tried to emulate him, all have failed. I think a more achievable point of comparison is Howie Roseman.

He's been GM of the Eagles since 2010 (although Reid and Chip Kelly both leave questions about how much power he had, he was in the mix). In that time, they've had 9 first round picks. They've spent one on Wentz, one on Nelson Agholor, and the other 7 on trenches. '

The two hardest things in the game to find are big, athletic men who don't suck at playing football, and quarterbacks who don't suck at playing football. Both go early, and Roseman knows this, and he keeps both loaded to the freaking gills. They drafted LT Andre Dillard in the first round this year, even with two starting tackles firmly in place. Why not; he was the most talented lineman available.

Philly usually loads up on high-athleticism guys in the later rounds, which is something Dallas also does and one area where I think Dallas has it correct. You want to find mid to late round guys who have starter potential. Philly doesn't do this exclusively, there's a couple Donnell Pumphrey type role players they pick, but the focus is definitely on upside.

Then with the salary cap, they take an interesting approach that's both value-focused and maxes out the credit card. Don't know how long they will be able to keep it up, but Roseman is a GD cap wizard, so we will see. That's the part that's hardest to replace - we're a fairly smart team financially but we are not Roseman smart.

Focus on trenches, draft athleticism, value minded, aggressive in FA. I think that's more doable than New England's "get the best DC ever, get a top 5 all time QB playing below market value, and have your coach build a system of interchangeable parts at every position on the field."
 

plasticman

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Yeah, we try to copy them, but we try to copy their 2 TE sets and obsession w/ CB's. Here's some of the things that really make them successful.

1. Continuously draft OL and DL.
2. Make sure to have replacements in place for players who will want a huge salary.
3. Do the opposite of what most of the NFL is doing. This allows you to find useful players all over the draft. Belly's 3-4 wasn't everywhere, so he was getting players who fit his system all over the draft. When the NFL switched to the 3-4, Belly went back to the 4-3, so he's still finding useful players all over the draft. He was doing that 2 TE set, so when everyone started switching, he's now going for WR's and is using a pass catching RB profusely.
4. Even if they don't play more than half the time, make sure to have a huge dude for the middle, to put a stop to O's like the Rams. Stop that run up the middle, and it's going to be a bit more difficult.
5. Always have a good stout OL in place. Always.
6. Don't overpay players. It kills you pretty quick.

Anything I missed? I know, I know, it helps tremendously to have a top 5 all time HC and QB, I get that. And that's a huge part of why they win. However, there are other things that can be done.
They could have learned the majority of that from their own history. Where do you think the Patriots learned it?

Bilicek was a huge admirer of Tom Landry and the way the Cowboys went about business back then.

There is a quote from Tom Landry that pretty much sums up the whole philosophy:

"Setting a goal is not the main thing. It is deciding how you will go about achieving it and staying with that plan".

The Patriots, like the Cowboy's first 29 years, had a specific plan when it came to acquiring talent. Though there are obvious differences in the circumstances, the general rule was the same, stick with your plan.

These days, the Cowboys are as close to working with a plan than they ever had, thanks mostly to Jason Garrett. The reason for the lack of up playoff success is that they are unable to follow the plan perfectly because Jerry Jones lacks the discipline. He has made decisions that contradicts the concept of maximizing value.
 

ICP

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Yeah, we try to copy them, but we try to copy their 2 TE sets and obsession w/ CB's. Here's some of the things that really make them successful.

1. Continuously draft OL and DL.
2. Make sure to have replacements in place for players who will want a huge salary.
3. Do the opposite of what most of the NFL is doing. This allows you to find useful players all over the draft. Belly's 3-4 wasn't everywhere, so he was getting players who fit his system all over the draft. When the NFL switched to the 3-4, Belly went back to the 4-3, so he's still finding useful players all over the draft. He was doing that 2 TE set, so when everyone started switching, he's now going for WR's and is using a pass catching RB profusely.
4. Even if they don't play more than half the time, make sure to have a huge dude for the middle, to put a stop to O's like the Rams. Stop that run up the middle, and it's going to be a bit more difficult.
5. Always have a good stout OL in place. Always.
6. Don't overpay players. It kills you pretty quick.

Anything I missed? I know, I know, it helps tremendously to have a top 5 all time HC and QB, I get that. And that's a huge part of why they win. However, there are other things that can be done.
Well, as soon as Dak and Coop get paid you can throw #6 out the window
 

Cebrin

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1) Opinions
2) CZ crucifix
3) Come back 3 days from now, and try again.
 

starfan1

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Well, as soon as Dak and Coop get paid you can throw #6 out the window
Not the first time they will have overpaid a qb. The last 1 was overpaid.

Lawerence is overpaid so # 6 is definitely out the window but market dictates this. The cap will continue to rise the cowboys just need to take advantage of this while the players are at the age they are

I’m more worried about coaching staff
 

Parcells4Life

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Yeah, we try to copy them, but we try to copy their 2 TE sets and obsession w/ CB's. Here's some of the things that really make them successful.

1. Continuously draft OL and DL.
2. Make sure to have replacements in place for players who will want a huge salary.
3. Do the opposite of what most of the NFL is doing. This allows you to find useful players all over the draft. Belly's 3-4 wasn't everywhere, so he was getting players who fit his system all over the draft. When the NFL switched to the 3-4, Belly went back to the 4-3, so he's still finding useful players all over the draft. He was doing that 2 TE set, so when everyone started switching, he's now going for WR's and is using a pass catching RB profusely.
4. Even if they don't play more than half the time, make sure to have a huge dude for the middle, to put a stop to O's like the Rams. Stop that run up the middle, and it's going to be a bit more difficult.
5. Always have a good stout OL in place. Always.
6. Don't overpay players. It kills you pretty quick.

Anything I missed? I know, I know, it helps tremendously to have a top 5 all time HC and QB, I get that. And that's a huge part of why they win. However, there are other things that can be done.
They change their entire philosophy depending on opponent in a way no one else can do. They may run it 50 times one week and throw it 50 times the next. Every other team says “this is who we are”. That’s why they’re so hard to beat.
 

kskboys

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7. Have one of the greatest QB's of all time playing on a relatively low salary so you can still sign other talent to fill out your roster.
8. CHEAT.
If ya ain't cheatin', ya ain't tryin'!!!!!!!!!!
 

kskboys

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We should learn absolutely positively nothing from the Pats. There have been plenty of teams try and learn from them and have failed. All of the ex-assistants that get head coaching jobs implement the Patriots way and it fails.
Disagree. The point is that we are learning the wrong things.
 

kskboys

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"Anything I missed?"

Only a few minor details:



Have a competent GM not a glorified circus conductor
Have a real HC not a spineless jellyfish
Have discipline and accountability
Have a QB who can throw the ball effectively


You know, minor details like those
Absolutely. That's why I asked. Did you miss that?
 

kskboys

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Off topic, but I was listening to a podcast regarding man and zone coverages and is passrush more important than coverage.
The guy brought up an intresting point... The greatest football mind, his highest FA defensive expenditures have been the Top CB's of that year.
The guy also said, he thinks Billicheck drafted a rb in round 1 this year just to screw with the other teams. Patriots in no way needed to draft a rb with a 1st rounder.
You're misreading. Blount left, and Belly understands the importance of RB's. He laughs at you guys who insist they have no value, meanwhile taking them high in the draft. Just off the top of my head, in the last two years I remember two 1sts being spent on RB's, and a 3/4. He drafts them a lot. He also understands the extreme importance of a Rb who can get the tough yards, signing Hill and then spending a 1st on Michel.

No, it's quite obvious that Belly doesn't agree w/ your take on the RB position at all!!!!
 

Idgit

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Belichick is in a league of his own as a team builder. Many have tried to emulate him, all have failed. I think a more achievable point of comparison is Howie Roseman.

He's been GM of the Eagles since 2010 (although Reid and Chip Kelly both leave questions about how much power he had, he was in the mix). In that time, they've had 9 first round picks. They've spent one on Wentz, one on Nelson Agholor, and the other 7 on trenches. '

The two hardest things in the game to find are big, athletic men who don't suck at playing football, and quarterbacks who don't suck at playing football. Both go early, and Roseman knows this, and he keeps both loaded to the freaking gills. They drafted LT Andre Dillard in the first round this year, even with two starting tackles firmly in place. Why not; he was the most talented lineman available.

Philly usually loads up on high-athleticism guys in the later rounds, which is something Dallas also does and one area where I think Dallas has it correct. You want to find mid to late round guys who have starter potential. Philly doesn't do this exclusively, there's a couple Donnell Pumphrey type role players they pick, but the focus is definitely on upside.

Then with the salary cap, they take an interesting approach that's both value-focused and maxes out the credit card. Don't know how long they will be able to keep it up, but Roseman is a GD cap wizard, so we will see. That's the part that's hardest to replace - we're a fairly smart team financially but we are not Roseman smart.

Focus on trenches, draft athleticism, value minded, aggressive in FA. I think that's more doable than New England's "get the best DC ever, get a top 5 all time QB playing below market value, and have your coach build a system of interchangeable parts at every position on the field."

Roseman makes that team work, no doubt.

Apart from how he uses veteran FA better than we do (and we probably draft a little but better than they do) our organizations are comparable in a lot of ways right now. It’s fun to watch.
 

cowboyblue22

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as close as team in the nfl today are in talent its the coaching that makes the difference in the better team and the team that usually are done playing after the final game the first of January
 

Typhus

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7. Have one of the greatest QB's of all time playing on a relatively low salary so you can still sign other talent to fill out your roster.
8. CHEAT.
Ya,, when Gisele brings home more than Tom, than Tom can afford to take less to win SBs.
Wife wears the pants,,,,, "Tom.. just go put trophys up on this very expensive gold shelf I just had installed".
What else can the man do?
 

ESisback

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Yeah, we try to copy them, but we try to copy their 2 TE sets and obsession w/ CB's. Here's some of the things that really make them successful.

1. Continuously draft OL and DL.
2. Make sure to have replacements in place for players who will want a huge salary.
3. Do the opposite of what most of the NFL is doing. This allows you to find useful players all over the draft. Belly's 3-4 wasn't everywhere, so he was getting players who fit his system all over the draft. When the NFL switched to the 3-4, Belly went back to the 4-3, so he's still finding useful players all over the draft. He was doing that 2 TE set, so when everyone started switching, he's now going for WR's and is using a pass catching RB profusely.
4. Even if they don't play more than half the time, make sure to have a huge dude for the middle, to put a stop to O's like the Rams. Stop that run up the middle, and it's going to be a bit more difficult.
5. Always have a good stout OL in place. Always.
6. Don't overpay players. It kills you pretty quick.

Anything I missed? I know, I know, it helps tremendously to have a top 5 all time HC and QB, I get that. And that's a huge part of why they win. However, there are other things that can be done.

Not sure about the middle, but I think Stephen has us going in that direction on the first two and last two.
 

kskboys

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He's all about the OL and secondary, which is not the norm in the game. Many put the DL ahead of the secondary and while they do compliment each other, he's in that the secondary helps the DL pass rush more then the reverse of that.

And what makes that interesting to me, he's got the offense designed to beat that, get the ball out faster than anyone. His D practices against the best O at doing what he wants to stop.

I do think he's the mad scientist and if they looked in his basement would probably find 100 of those old electric football games, each with a different O and D alignment. And a one eyed cat on an old Barcalounger in the corner. He turns them all on and he watches the cat to see which he's watching with his one good eye.
I don't think so. I think he has the front 4 on D prioritized. What Belly realizes is that you must have a deep rotation on the DL, which is more important than an uber talented player or two. While the rest of the NFL has switched to the 3-4, he switched back to the 4-3 and is now finding quality starters in the mid rounds. Wise, Flowers, Rivers, Grissom, Valentine, Malcolm Brown, all taken in rounds 1-4 in the last 4 years. He drafts them profusely. And then he takes big dudes and puts them in the right position to succeed. He limits their snaps to around 50% or less so they're there late in the game when he really needs them to produce.

Belly drafts DB's often and early simply because he knows you can't consistently pay them. There's an exception now and then, Reavis a couple years back and now Gilmore. However, mostly he just churns them.
 

MRV52

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Boston is going down and it started last night losing the Stanley Cup. :lmao:
 

kskboys

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There is NO WAY the Cowboys can take after the Pats. They don't have Belli OR Brady. That alone allows them to run the show much different.
Yes, there is a way. However, it involves very tough decisions and saavy management, which we won't get w/ Jerry in charge.

Giants, PITT, BALT, those guys have consistently contended over the last several years w/o Brady or Belly. How? Get a decent QB, then build your D. From the inside out. That's how you contend.
 

Beats_By_Zeke

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You're misreading. Blount left, and Belly understands the importance of RB's. He laughs at you guys who insist they have no value, meanwhile taking them high in the draft. Just off the top of my head, in the last two years I remember two 1sts being spent on RB's, and a 3/4. He drafts them a lot. He also understands the extreme importance of a Rb who can get the tough yards, signing Hill and then spending a 1st on Michel.

No, it's quite obvious that Belly doesn't agree w/ your take on the RB position at all!!!!
Idk man. Billy boy has a proven track record of plug n play. Pretty sure he could of got a rb in the 3rd too do the same.
 
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