Dak’s improved deep ball is way more important than any play call change

jrumann59

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The improved accuracy won't matter if he is running for his life every passing play. The OL MUST do a better job in pass protection.
To a degree yes. But Dak has to improve on having consistent drops in the pocket. OL learn early on when its supposed to be 3 step drop they expect the qb to be about 3 yards deep 5 steep drop 5 yards and 7 step about 7 yards. But if the drop is consistent like 3 step can be anywhere from 2-5 it makes it harder to block the guy by directing him, pass blocking is more about directing the guy especially for tackles. So if that part of Dak's mechanics gets squared away the OL performance will improve greatly because the OL will have better feel for where they expect Dak to be.
 

gimmesix

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Kellen Moore gets all the hype but the real MVP of the offseason to me is what Kitna is doing with Daks deep ball.

Even in last years “boring offense” there were easily 7 or 8 gimme TDs there that were just missed like Beasley vs the Falcons, Olawale vs Colts and how many bombs to Gallup.

Just connect on the bombs and everything changes. Whole every offense could use some updates, Daks deep ball changes everything.

Remember the great saints averaged 19 ppg the rest of the year starting vs Dallas and the Rams were nothing like their old selves once Krupp went down.

Moore having shifts will do more for the running game IMO because it moves the LBs when Zeke can cut it back.

We only won one playoff game with Romo partly because the scheme is predictable, which means the offense can only be as good as its players and fails when matched up against a team with a better offense.

Now, our defense looks to be about as good as it has been since Garrett became coach, but our shortcomings in the postseason have been our defense not being able to stop a prolific offense (Packers, Rams) and our "boring offense" not being prolific enough to win a gunfight.

A tweak here and there like the Rams made to overwhelm our defense can make all the difference.
 

jazzcat22

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False, as so many previous have covered the reasons.

And it really is not all the often teams throw deep, as in over 30 to 40 yards.

It is what a team refers to as a deep pass.
Several years ago I read Dallas considers anything over 17 or 18 yards a deep play. But then again that could be on Linehan calling those shorter or come back routes to make it seem that way. As to not be going deep.

Other teams go with 19 or 20 yards, or longer as a deep pass. And again how often do you see teams repeatidly throwing 40 yards down field. As many fans think we should do that 10 times a game or more.
You take the higher % plays to gain yards if that is what the defense gives you.
 

CouchCoach

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One of the unknowns of this season is the overall effect of the rule change on PI on the number of deep balls called. Some seem to feel that some OC's will load up because of the effect on the DB's of the reviewable PI call. Then, the better deep ball thrower should get more.

Considering the additional time it takes to wait until a WR clears on a deep route, I would be surprised to see anything but a marginal increase for Prescott unless that OL is a wall of protection. When the pressure comes, that's when his mechanics come undone and he's throwing flat footed or worse, off his back foot.
 

ScipioCowboy

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To me, it’s more about improved red zone efficiency, which will stem from the return of Frederick and improvement at left guard.
 

erod

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Far more to it than that.

It's about recognizing zones and leverage, knowing when to throw the ball, and being able to put it in tight windows.

Deep balls are always a bit of a crapshoot, and down the sideline, he's just fine at it. It's much more about those 15-20 yard balls over the middle against zone coverages. It's more about recognizing where the blitz is coming from so he knows where the defense is compromised. And ultimately, if he sees it, can he consistently deliver the ball accurately and on time.

Dak needs the CONFIDENCE to do that first. He has held the ball too long primarily because he didn't trust what he was seeing, nor did he trust that he could get it there. He waits for guys to get wide open, which doesn't happen much in the NFL like it did in college.
 

erod

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Definitely False. When defenses know what you are going to do then it becomes much harder to achieve success especially in the red zone where the field is greatly shorten. The idea of running multiple different plays out of the same formation should be a huge plus this year.

If the defense knew what Dallas was doing all the time, then why were the Cowboys able to go up and down the field between the 20s so well?

In the red zone, space is really tight. Your QB has to be able to throw in tiny windows with velocity, or place perfect balls on fades and back shoulder passes. Nobody is wide open down there.

Teams just sat in short zones and dared him. He would pat the ball over and over, or he'd just throw the safe fade to the corner and accept the incompletion if it was off target.
 

kskboys

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It's not.

Scheme is everything. And we just had another example. Baker Mayfield. He broke out when they fired that moron HC they had.

For some reason, people have created this scenario that if we can just throw deep all will be solved. Very silly summation. There's so much more to it than that.
 

kskboys

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Far more to it than that.

It's about recognizing zones and leverage, knowing when to throw the ball, and being able to put it in tight windows.

Deep balls are always a bit of a crapshoot, and down the sideline, he's just fine at it. It's much more about those 15-20 yard balls over the middle against zone coverages. It's more about recognizing where the blitz is coming from so he knows where the defense is compromised. And ultimately, if he sees it, can he consistently deliver the ball accurately and on time.

Dak needs the CONFIDENCE to do that first. He has held the ball too long primarily because he didn't trust what he was seeing, nor did he trust that he could get it there. He waits for guys to get wide open, which doesn't happen much in the NFL like it did in college.
I agree w/ your premise, though I'm not convinced that your reasoning is sound. I think there's more to it than that. If Moore is an adequate OC, you may be proven incorrect. Gonna be interestin' for sure!!!
 

PAPPYDOG

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Kellen Moore gets all the hype but the real MVP of the offseason to me is what Kitna is doing with Daks deep ball.

Even in last years “boring offense” there were easily 7 or 8 gimme TDs there that were just missed like Beasley vs the Falcons, Olawale vs Colts and how many bombs to Gallup.

Just connect on the bombs and everything changes. Whole every offense could use some updates, Daks deep ball changes everything.

Remember the great saints averaged 19 ppg the rest of the year starting vs Dallas and the Rams were nothing like their old selves once Krupp went down.

Moore having shifts will do more for the running game IMO because it moves the LBs when Zeke can cut it back.

Unless we have a passing game that defenses FEAR its going to be the same old same old.
Now who has is responsible for this .....just ask Dak.....GL to the lad....and hold a small basket as miracles these days are rare at best!

P.S. Why wasn't the long ball a issue when Tony was our QB?
 

Super_Kazuya

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I would say false. Deep balls (at least the “go route” type) are mostly just timing and don’t require a lot of arm talent to complete. I find Dak to be acceptable at it... his success rate seems bad because most other QBs also regularly miss open guys (i.e. it’s hard).
 

Whyjerry

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To a degree yes. But Dak has to improve on having consistent drops in the pocket. OL learn early on when its supposed to be 3 step drop they expect the qb to be about 3 yards deep 5 steep drop 5 yards and 7 step about 7 yards. But if the drop is consistent like 3 step can be anywhere from 2-5 it makes it harder to block the guy by directing him, pass blocking is more about directing the guy especially for tackles. So if that part of Dak's mechanics gets squared away the OL performance will improve greatly because the OL will have better feel for where they expect Dak to be.

I also agree to a point but this OL knows Dak is capable of extending plays. Hence the clock is different for him. Clocks don’t matter when Collins is flopping around on the turf and a DE is coming free to the QB. That happened way too often last year.
 

ABQCOWBOY

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False. Aikmans weakness was the deep ball and look what he did. Also, some of those missed plays last year were due to bad route running especially by Gallup. Disguising the offense so the defense has to hesitate is much much more important.

Aikman's "Weakness" was his deep ball to the sideline but Aikman didn't have a lot of weakness' in his game to begin with and his weakest pass was still better then 80% of the other QBs in the NFL so to call it a "Weakness" might not be as accurate as presented.

If a guy is wide open and you miss him, it's not a bad route. In the 92 NFC Championship game against the 49ers, the Post to Harper for the big game with 4 minutes left was the wrong route. He was supposed to run a curl but instead, he ran the Post, caught the 49ers in a blitz and the rest is history. Was the wrong route but Troy was on the money with that football because it was wide open. It's one thing to not see a wide open WR for 6 but you don't miss wide open WRs for 6 points and then blame it on a bad route.
 

Teague31

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I just knew that someday we would get to a “Dak’s Deep Balls” thread. I love this place
 

Teague31

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Aikman's "Weakness" was his deep ball to the sideline but Aikman didn't have a lot of weakness' in his game to begin with and his weakest pass was still better then 80% of the other QBs in the NFL so to call it a "Weakness" might not be as accurate as presented.

If a guy is wide open and you miss him, it's not a bad route. In the 92 NFC Championship game against the 49ers, the Post to Harper for the big game with 4 minutes left was the wrong route. He was supposed to run a curl but instead, he ran the Post, caught the 49ers in a blitz and the rest is history. Was the wrong route but Troy was on the money with that football because it was wide open. It's one thing to not see a wide open WR for 6 but you don't miss wide open WRs for 6 points and then blame it on a bad route.

Wasn’t the wrong route as much as the wrong guy. Irvin switched spots.
 

ABQCOWBOY

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Wasn’t the wrong route as much as the wrong guy. Irvin switched spots.

Irvin also ran the wrong route but the point is, doesn't matter if it was the wrong route or not, he was wide open and Troy put it on him. If he had not seen him at all, that's one thing but Troy did and he was accurate on the throw. That's not what we are talking about with Dak. It's one thing to run the wrong route and the ball is clearly going to another area of the field, you can usually tell that. It's an entirely different thing to see a guy wide open and just miss that guy running free, which is what we saw with Dak too often. That's the point I am trying to make.
 

glimmerman

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Apparently his deep ball is doing better so we have that going for us. His 4th year and the game will slow down for him and he is adjusted to the speed of the game. Things will get easier for him and it should show.
 

Jake

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More like this, please.

dak-best-deep-throw-beasley.gif
 
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