Report: Dak Prescott counteroffer higher than Carson Wentz deal

Section446 · Jun 15, 2019

Anytime they're negotiating, I try to be careful with what I believe. It almost feels weird saying it, but I have faith that the front office (Stephen) will do the right thing.

Stash · Jun 15, 2019

If the $34 million a year numbers are accurate? I'm waiting. It means that the Cowboys would be getting no discount whatsoever, and i see no reason to rush into any contract that gives me nothing for getting into it early. Right now isn't the very worst time for the Cowboys to agree to any deal. Prescott isn't on the field and is assuming no risk of injury.

Wait until the preseason or the season starts, at that point, all of the added risk and pressure will be on him and on his agent to get a deal done. Let's see if they actually have the courage and resolve to take that risk and make these sort of demands then?

I've got this season at $2 million, and at least two years of the franchise tag available at about $30 million per year. Do the math, and that's three years at about $63 million, or an average of $21 million per year. And those three years also buy me time to identify and acquire a potential replacement.

This is what I would do if these demands are accurate, but I expect that the Cowboys will end up paying him before the season starts, and the leverage shifts.

glimmerman · Jun 15, 2019

DandyDon52 said:
Well we dont know the details of the offer by jones boys, or what dak is asking for.
Usually it is the G money that is haggled over. Jones boys offer could be 80 mil G or less, we dont know.

If I was Dak and they dont sign me before Season starts, my main goal would be to just not get hurt, and not care about winning.
If Dak gets hurt bad this year with no contract then there is no future big payday, that is all gone.
And it can happen.

Especially with a running type of QB. They will be taking shots at him.

glimmerman · Jun 15, 2019

stasheroo said:
If the $34 million a year numbers are accurate? I'm waiting. It means that the Cowboys would be getting no discount whatsoever, and i see no reason to rush into any contract that gives me nothing for getting into it early. Right now isn't the very worst time for the Cowboys to agree to any deal. Prescott isn't on the field and is assuming no risk of injury.

Wait until the preseason or the season starts, at that point, all of the added risk and pressure will be on him and on his agent to get a deal done. Let's see if they actually have the courage and resolve to take that risk and make these sort of demands then?

I've got this season at $2 million, and at least two years of the franchise tag available at about $30 million per year. Do the math, and that's three years at about $63 million, or an average of $21 million per year. And those three years also buy me time to identify and acquire a potential replacement.

This is what I would do if these demands are accurate, but I expect that the Cowboys will end up paying him before the season starts, and the leverage shifts.

Would be cheaper but is he balls out then his payday will be closer to 40 million. I think JJ is sold on him being the franchise and it’s important for these players to feel secure. Your QB needs to feel secure and not worry about getting injured. Locking him down for the FO is as much about him and it is the team. IMO.

But your way saves money. They may do that with Elliot though.

And you’re right, they will pay him soon enough. They are likely finalizing details..

Stash · Jun 15, 2019

glimmerman said:
Would be cheaper but is he balls out then his payday will be closer to 40 million.

Nobody's getting $40 million, not any quarterback, not anywhere. Super Bowl winning quarterbacks aren't getting it, Dak sure as heck isn't.

I think JJ is sold on him being the franchise and it’s important for these players to feel secure. Your QB needs to feel secure and not worry about getting injured. Locking him down for the FO is as much about him and it is the team. IMO.

Being sold is one thing, grossly overpaying when you don't have to is something else. Again, the Cowboys have control for three years minimum. Use your leverage.

But your way saves money. They may do that with Elliot though.

And you’re right, they will pay him soon enough. They are likely finalizing details..

Sadly, yes, I expect them to sign him when the players leverage it at its highest and theirs at its lowest, and therefore overpay. Just so they can show everyone that they got a deal done before the season starts.

glimmerman · Jun 15, 2019

stasheroo said:
Nobody's getting $40 million, not any quarterback, not anywhere. Super Bowl winning quarterbacks aren't getting it, Dak sure as heck isn't.

Being sold is one thing, grossly overpaying when you don't have to is something else. Again, the Cowboys have control for three years minimum. Use your leverage.

Sadly, yes, I expect them to sign him when the players leverage it at its highest and theirs at its lowest, and therefore overpay. Just so they can show everyone that they got a deal done before the season starts.

I have a feeling that when mahomes gets his contract market values increase every year and ground breakers are made that drives it up. This year the standard is 34 I am guessing. We may see mahomes get close to 40. You know as well as I do even though another starting QB may not be close to as good as him that his agent is going to ask for it and not take much less.

Dak ms agent is asking 34, my guess is we get him for slightly over what wentz got. So maybe 32.5 or 33 million. I don’t think he is worth more than 30 myself and some think 25 but that isn’t going to happen. If they don’t come down off of 34 then I let him play out his rookie deal. Or try again at the bye week. If he looks good then sign him for the 34 but by then his agent will want more. A big circle of poo if you ask me. Lol.

Cowboysheelsreds053 · Jun 15, 2019

This will easily be a 100 page thread, up to 19 now.

Stash · Jun 15, 2019

glimmerman said:
I have a feeling that when mahomes gets his contract market values increase every year and ground breakers are made that drives it up. This year the standard is 34 I am guessing. We may see mahomes get close to 40. You know as well as I do even though another starting QB may not be close to as good as him that his agent is going to ask for it and not take much less.

And what year does Mahomes break the bank? He's just entering year three, and the Chiefs have a fifth year option to use as well. They don't have to pay him for at least three more years.

Dak ms agent is asking 34, my guess is we get him for slightly over what wentz got. So maybe 32.5 or 33 million. I don’t think he is worth more than 30 myself and some think 25 but that isn’t going to happen. If they don’t come down off of 34 then I let him play out his rookie deal. Or try again at the bye week. If he looks good then sign him for the 34 but by then his agent will want more. A big circle of poo if you ask me. Lol.

It's not fun, that's for sure.

Typhus · Jun 15, 2019

Corso said:
I'm getting that case of Lone Star... Maybe Pabst.

what.... no Old Milwaukee?

Montanalo · Jun 15, 2019

The whole QB salary structure and it's recent escalation would form a basis for a Harvard Business Review article.

I used to subscribe to the HBR, but haven't done so in several years. HBR has previously published articles on sports franchises, in general, "money ball" and a host other sports related articles.

The economics of the NFL and player salary structure (and, in particular, QB's salary) are interesting: Finite resource (only a very few people have the skills and wherewithal to play professional football), expanding markets, disproportional salary structure (comparable in some respects to the difference between CEO compensation and the average employee), windfall profits, etc.

I could easily argue that the current QB salaries are only tangentially related to talent and directly related to market forces. If this is the case, and I think it is, then even average QB's will Garner stupidly inflated salaries.

Where this all ends up will be interesting. The upcoming CBA's could be the most important in the NFL history.

Stash · Jun 15, 2019

ColoCowboy said:
The whole QB salary structure and it's recent escalation would form a basis for a Harvard Business Review article.

I used to subscribe to the HBR, but haven't done so in several years. HBR has previously published articles on sports franchises, in general, "money ball" and a host other sports related articles.

The economics of the NFL and player salary structure (and, in particular, QB's salary) are interesting: Finite resource (only a very few people have the skills and wherewithal to play professional football), expanding markets, disproportional salary structure (comparable in some respects to the difference between CEO compensation and the average employee), windfall profits, etc.

I could easily argue that the current QB salaries are only tangentially related to talent and directly related to market forces. If this is the case, and I think it is, then even average QB's will Garner stupidly inflated salaries.

Where this all ends up will be interesting. The upcoming CBA's could be the most important in the NFL history.

I think it's already been shown that "average quarterbacks ARE garnering stupidly inflated salaries".

Guys like Cousins, Carr, and Stafford have never won anything, and yet each is making $25 million a year or more.

Things have already gotten out of whack, and that trend is only continuing.

At some point, some team has to have a plan in place where they are confident enough in the organization overall to simply say "No".

Montanalo · Jun 15, 2019

stasheroo said:
I think it's already been shown that "average quarterbacks ARE garnering stupidly inflated salaries".

Guys like Cousins, Carr, and Stafford have never won anything, and yet each is making $25 million a year or more.

Things have already gotten out of whack, and that trend is only continuing.

At some point, some team has to have a plan in place where they are confident enough in the organization overall to simply say "No".

As long as the salary cap grows, I do not see much of a driver for change. The minute the salary levels off or grows only at the rate of inflation, or when attendance drops, we will see change.

BigStar · Jun 15, 2019

Sounds like the tag would be cheaper...you can use it for 2 years while grooming his replacement unless he becomes a top 5-10 QB. Only then pay him the going rate. We were 22nd in passing for crying out loud?

BigStar · Jun 15, 2019

ColoCowboy said:
The whole QB salary structure and it's recent escalation would form a basis for a Harvard Business Review article.

I used to subscribe to the HBR, but haven't done so in several years. HBR has previously published articles on sports franchises, in general, "money ball" and a host other sports related articles.

The economics of the NFL and player salary structure (and, in particular, QB's salary) are interesting: Finite resource (only a very few people have the skills and wherewithal to play professional football), expanding markets, disproportional salary structure (comparable in some respects to the difference between CEO compensation and the average employee), windfall profits, etc.

I could easily argue that the current QB salaries are only tangentially related to talent and directly related to market forces. If this is the case, and I think it is, then even average QB's will Garner stupidly inflated salaries.

Where this all ends up will be interesting. The upcoming CBA's could be the most important in the NFL history.

I think when teams start bailing on these "standard" overpaid deals is when the market will find some balance. You see it with Carr and Cousins already. Why feed into it when you don't have to?

Stash · Jun 15, 2019

ColoCowboy said:
As long as the salary cap grows, I do not see much of a driver for change. The minute the salary levels off or grows only at the rate of inflation, or when attendance drops, we will see change.

I'm not sure I feel the same. I think it's going to come down to a team that:

Simply doesn't have the cap room to afford to pay what continue to be growing, exorbitant salaries
One that doesn't truly believe that their current quarterback is worth it
Believes that they can identify and acquire someone better

These quarterbacks and agents are simply stepping up to the pay window and demanding huge dollars, threatening that if you don't pay us, someone else will. And currently, they're right. But teams aren't helpless, and they do have considerable leverage.

Looking at the Commanders situation, they weren't wrong not to give Cousins the huge money. He's shown that he's not worth it, and the Vikings are now cap-strapped as a result. The part where the Commanders got screwed was deciding to pay Alex Smith big money when he wasn't worth it and then him suffering a rare, career-threatening injury. That part is just bad luck that could happen to anybody.

But my point is that they weren't wrong not to pay Cousins.

yimyammer · Jun 15, 2019

stasheroo said:
If the $34 million a year numbers are accurate? I'm waiting. It means that the Cowboys would be getting no discount whatsoever, and i see no reason to rush into any contract that gives me nothing for getting into it early. Right now isn't the very worst time for the Cowboys to agree to any deal. Prescott isn't on the field and is assuming no risk of injury.

Wait until the preseason or the season starts, at that point, all of the added risk and pressure will be on him and on his agent to get a deal done. Let's see if they actually have the courage and resolve to take that risk and make these sort of demands then?

I've got this season at $2 million, and at least two years of the franchise tag available at about $30 million per year. Do the math, and that's three years at about $63 million, or an average of $21 million per year. And those three years also buy me time to identify and acquire a potential replacement.

This is what I would do if these demands are accurate, but I expect that the Cowboys will end up paying him before the season starts, and the leverage shifts.

that's what I came up with in a post I made a while back:

yimyammer said:
If I have the facts correct, then I say just leave 2019 as is and franchise him the next 2 seasons and it will cost approximately $59,790,000 total over 3 years if the % increase in the franchise tag for QBs stays close to the % increase form 2018 to 2019.

This gives the cowboys leverage imo since there's no pressure to pay him $30+ million now when they can average paying him less than $20 million per year by leaving 2019 as is and franchising him back to back in years 2020 & 2021. This gives them a 3 year look with maximum flexibility and a reasonable average cost of $20 mill/year. They could also do a contract now that guarantees the $60 million they're projected to pay under this scenario which would give Dak a nice, fat insurance check and the team a potential 4th or 5th year option added to the deal.

The only downside I see is they'll be forced to part ways or pay him big in 2022 if he turns out to be a stud because the franchise tag $$ will be so bloated, it will no longer be an option. However, if he really blossoms in 3 years, I don't think anyone will mind giving him a big deal. Seems like the CBA is up in 3 years too so it might be nice not to have too much tied up without knowing how that goes.

baltcowboy · Jun 15, 2019

Reid1boys said:
Wentz was drafted to a team that was coming off a 7-9 season. Dak came into t team that was possibly the most talented team in the league with the best Oline and a top RB. Comparing those numbers is like comparing apples to ornages IMO. Yea, we went to playoff sin 2 out of the 3 years, but we stunk in year 2, and we were stinking last year, and dak was really stinking last year when cooper arrived. Look, we can go back and forth all day.... all Im saying is I want to see Dak do something THIS year. Lead us to the playoffs and a depp playoff run this year, and Ill concede he is worth paying. Thats why I personally would not give him a new deal until this season is well uner way so we can see how he is doing.

Dallas was 4-12 the year before they drafted Dak. The best offensive line did nothing that year.

Stash · Jun 15, 2019

yimyammer said:
that's what I came up with in a post I made a while back:

That's some great work there, I completely agree with you.
:clap:

baltcowboy · Jun 15, 2019

glimmerman said:
Something tells me we are going to pay him more or about the same as wentz. It’s really got to do with the team around them also. Both QB has really had a pretty good team around them. I see them around the same. I will be happy when it’s over. Move on to how much we are going to over pay Cooper.

What do you mean we? Jerrah just paid 250 million for a yacht. If Dak sucks it won't matter one bit. He will still be paid. Dak worked hard and led the team to two division titles. Pay the man.

yimyammer · Jun 15, 2019

stasheroo said:
At some point, some team has to have a plan in place where they are confident enough in the organization overall to simply say "No".

I think this may be where an edge can be had in this league of parity. It's never been easier to play QB, they cant be hit, receivers can run free without fear of their heads being taken off, virtually all of the rules favor the offense.

A smart team will find a way to design their game plans around lesser QBs and use the huge salary cap savings on the rest of the team.

It appears to me, given the current salary trajectory for QBs that the new axiom will be:

" you can't win without a franchise QB but if you have one, you can't win because you paid him"

damned if you do, damned if you don't

maybe every team should have 1 exception for the salary cap where one salary doesnt go against the cap

Report: Dak Prescott counteroffer higher than Carson Wentz deal

Section446

Well-Known Member

Stash

glimmerman

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glimmerman

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Stash

glimmerman

Well-Known Member

Cowboysheelsreds053

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Stash

Typhus

Captain Catfish

Montanalo

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Stash

Montanalo

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BigStar

Stop chasing

BigStar

Stop chasing

Stash

yimyammer

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baltcowboy

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Stash

baltcowboy

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yimyammer

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