Rockport
AmberBeer
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Yet when the Cowboys lose, fans like yourself blamed Romo when he was playing and Dak now. Give me a freakin break and who the hell do you think you are fooling?
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Report: Dak Prescott counteroffer higher than Carson Wentz deal
- Thread starter America's Cowboy
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gimmesix
Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life
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There are some categories where Dak has had more success than Wentz. There are some categories where it is undeniable that Wentz has had more success than Dak.
This is the point when it comes to contract negotiations. I don't ignore his rookie year, but his rookie year was three years ago and Wentz's numbers overall have gone up since then while Dak's haven't. Dak set a higher bar, but he hasn't reached that standard since, not for a full season.
My whole point in this thread isn't that I believe Wentz is a better quarterback. The point is simply that it can be argued in negotiation that there are some areas where Wentz has been better because there are statistics that prove that. As a negotiator, I'm using that to tell Prescott he doesn't deserve more than Wentz.
Frankly, at this point, I don't know who is going to be the better quarterback in their careers, but have areas where they need to improve. Dak's main advantage, in negotiations, is that he has had no problems with his health, while Philly paid $32 million per year to a player who has had serious injuries the past two seasons.
Super_Kazuya
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At this point, the Amber Beer Troll and his ilk are just being willfully ignorant, as they continue to pretend QB Winz are actually real just to annoy people. I think they have tattooed “32-16” to their forehead for easy reference, as well as wearing a commemorative pin of Dak’s phony, 8th alternate Pro Bowl fill in job.
gimmesix
Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life
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No. I blamed who deserved to be blamed. I actually analyzed the game instead of just looking at a QB's record, which is what you just did to say that Dak is better than Wentz. I believe you just called Wentz a loser based on his won-loss record, which means as a fan you blamed Wentz instead of blaming the team.
You ignored discussing the statistics I posted showing categories where Wentz's were better than Dak, weakly tried to use won-loss records to defend your point (moving the goalposts) and now you're essentially proving how ignorant your won-loss record argument was.
However, I don't think you'll see that and I don't appreciate those who cuss when they talk with me, so I'm done here.
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Rockport
AmberBeer
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Hey I understand that the truth hurts. Just man up and deal with it and hopefully learn from it.
gimmesix
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It definitely seems that some are willing to ignore anything that shows Wentz being statistically better in any category than Dak. They see that and they seem to go into defense mode, not even looking at the fact that some of us are not claiming the Wentz is a better QB or that Dak isn't also better in some statistical categories.
I have no idea how either player is going to turn out.
Prescott had a fantastic rookie year, then didn't look good for 1 1/2 seasons before returning to that rookie year level of play (coinciding with us acquiring a top-notch receiver, which obviously affected his play). He is indecisive at times, holding the ball too long, and misses throws that he shouldn't when he doesn't stay technically sound. He's a tough and willing runner, a good leader, pretty clutch and makes plays at times that not every QB can make.
I'd like to see if he can maintain the level of play he reached as a rookie and the last half of last season for a full year before committing to him as the franchise QB. And I see that 1 1/2 seasons of questionable play bringing down his value from what it would have been if he played all three years like he did as a rookie.
America's Cowboy
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Do you deny Wince was surrounded by a Super Bowl proven team, while Dak wasn't? Not even close...
gimmesix
Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life
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So when Dak was statistically better than Wentz as a rookie, do you credit that to the team being better or to Dak?
There are a lot who say Dak only did as well as he did as a rookie because of the team we had around him. I believe that's hard to quantify. The players around a QB obviously affect his play, but how much of an effect do they have? If you start throwing out one set of numbers because one quarterback was surrounded by poorer talent, then you have to throw them all out ... because you can't say this quarterback was better because of the talent around him without looking at the talent level when your QB was better.
Frankly, this is why I think won-loss record is a terrible way of judging a quarterback. That is a statistical category that is very dependent on the talent level of the team. Other statistical categories as less dependent so they are a little easier to use ... but statistical evidence is always going to have some weaknesses because you are looking at one player while no one player plays by himself.
I think the Amari Cooper acquisition is a good example. Dak's level of play picked up when we got Cooper, so therefore there's a correlation between Prescott's play and the talent at receiver. I hope that this means, since we've still got Cooper, that Prescott will be able to continue playing at that level or even take his play up to a higher level. I want to see it before believing it, though, because there are other factors that affected Prescott's level of play as well.
Stash
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Please show me where there are in fact "on record" because I very much need to see this specific statement. I have seen an Adam Schefter report suggesting a $200 million deal in 2020, but have seen no indication whatsoever from the Chiefs organization, much less anything outright saying $40 million a year.
RustyBourneHorse
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Just to put this out there. I'm watching the CFL Game between the Winnipeg Blue Bombers and BC Lions. The RB for Winnipeg, Andrew Harris looks unbelievable.
gmoney112
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22 pages. I'm sure it's filled with reasonable, logical debate.
Hahaha.
Anyway, not too surprising. Risk has a value, in just about every contract/financing, Dak *is* less risky than Wentz.
I don't care about Jerry's money, the cap is going up every year and rollover means QBs are about to get insane contracts. The cap is fine anyway. We could pay Dak $35million (it'd actually be a smaller number first year), and still have $65 million in cap next year.
This team can win now, and I'd much rather keep the multiple premium picks it'd take, and still not be a guarantee, to get a "blue chip" QB.
This is an offense oriented league. And by that I dont mean defense isn't important, it obviously is, but there are a lot of things you can do nowadays to have an offense good enough to win, especially if you have talent which we do.
Work on redzone, be more creative on offense, we've got talent on the OL, WR, and RB, and use the premium picks on BPA and defense. We can win now, and it just takes a rather meaningless sum of the cap. That's my opinion anyway.
Hahaha.
Anyway, not too surprising. Risk has a value, in just about every contract/financing, Dak *is* less risky than Wentz.
I don't care about Jerry's money, the cap is going up every year and rollover means QBs are about to get insane contracts. The cap is fine anyway. We could pay Dak $35million (it'd actually be a smaller number first year), and still have $65 million in cap next year.
This team can win now, and I'd much rather keep the multiple premium picks it'd take, and still not be a guarantee, to get a "blue chip" QB.
This is an offense oriented league. And by that I dont mean defense isn't important, it obviously is, but there are a lot of things you can do nowadays to have an offense good enough to win, especially if you have talent which we do.
Work on redzone, be more creative on offense, we've got talent on the OL, WR, and RB, and use the premium picks on BPA and defense. We can win now, and it just takes a rather meaningless sum of the cap. That's my opinion anyway.
DandyDon52
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exactly, Tom was very lucky, similar to dak in 2016.
The thing about Tom is what he did with is lucky opportunity!
He could not have done better than what he did and has done.
Tom had a Dream of being a big time qb, and supposedly he told kraft, that picking him in 6th was going to be the best draft pick ever.
After getting the starting job, Tom just kept making all the right moves. Including marrying the woman he did.
baltcowboy
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Dan Marino says hi.
TheSkaven
Last Man Standing
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You just made my point - you claim that Wentz is superior than Dak in certain areas, but then you cite areas where Wentz is even worse!
Dak “is indecisive at times, holding the ball too long”. OK, you’re right. But do you know who also does that? Wentz, who takes on average more sacks per game and had the same number of sack/fumbles lost as Dak in 2018 - but played 5 less games!
Dak “misses throws when he shouldn’t”. Yep, all quarterbacks miss throws, but Wentz missed way more. Wentz consistently throws less completions and more INTs per game, for his career and for 2018 too.
Oh and there are some examples where Wentz just killed his team with those throws. His gunslinger mentality means he’ll pass on the wide open wheel route to force the ball into double coverage and throw a pick.
We’re a run-first ball control offense team with a great running back. Why would you want a quarterback who not only misses throws but takes unnecessary risks.
@gimmesix - the argument that they’re equal doesn’t hold water. Unless we’re using only 2017 as the data points, Dak is better in almost every category.
glimmerman
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That would be nuts..
glimmerman
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So did we sign him yet..
Gaede
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Exactly. Pay him.
Gaede
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Exactly. Draft status doesn't mean **** when you're looking for your second contract. Production, reliability, potential matters.
StuckMojo
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Salary cap be damned, let’s just overpay Dak!
CowboyRoy
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