What happens if (or when) Moore and Garrett don't see eye to eye

Fire407

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It needs to be understood, these OTAs, mini-camp and training camp, Kellen Moore will be a student driver behind the wheel of a new car when it comes to calling plays. He will get much better through experience so don't be so hard on him during the preseason games. By the time the regular season gets here, he should be a fully licensed driver behind the wheel. Until then Garrett is overseeing this thing and making sure Kellen stays on the road.
Well first of all everybody knows that in training camp and preseason the offense of every team is pretty vanilla. Nobody wants to show what they might really be doing in the regular season. I think Jerry has faith in Moore to run the offense now and the during the regular season. Why would Moore need Garrett to teach him anything about running vanilla offenses?
 

JoeKing

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Well first of all everybody knows that in training camp and preseason the offense of every team is pretty vanilla. Nobody wants to show what they might really be doing in the regular season. I think Jerry has faith in Moore to run the offense now and the during the regular season. Why would Moore need Garrett to teach him anything about running vanilla offenses?
They practice the not vanilla stuff too, I was more talking about that. But yes, when the network cameras are on in the preseason, the vanilla stuff with the 2nd and 3rd string guys get the bulk of the game time.
 

Buzzbait

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So many so defiant to acknowledge Moore's true status by virtue of and reaffirmation of what Garrett just told you (above).

What Garrett stated in reference to Kellen Moore was.... and I quote: "He has a good feel for what we want to do."
Note Garrett didn't say it's Moore's offense and he has a free hand to do as he pleases, he said "for what WE WANT TO DO."
Garrett's not giving up control.
 

OmerV

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What Garrett stated in reference to Kellen Moore was.... and I quote: "He has a good feel for what we want to do."
Note Garrett didn't say it's Moore's offense and he has a free hand to do as he pleases, he said "for what WE WANT TO DO."
Garrett's not giving up control.
The team always sets the parameters and determines the general style of play they want. Coordinators are not completely autonomous with nobody to answer to or coordinate with on any team.
 

_sturt_

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The team always sets the parameters and determines the general style of play they want. Coordinators are not completely autonomous with nobody to answer to or coordinate with on any team.

True. But you leave out that some OCs have more control than others. (And you know that's true, so why not acknowledge that?)

While it's true that Linehan was hired because he and Garrett shared offensive philosophy, the point remains that Linehan was given practically complete control over the offense. I'm sure he and Garrett compared notes, I'm sure Garrett still had input, just as you suggest. I'm also confident that Garrett never spoke about the need for Linehan to collaborate with his offensive coaches. It was ubiquitously understood in these parts that Linehan was large and in charge in the same way that Marinelli was.

That's changed. That's different now.

1) Kellen Moore probably has already gotten to put on the table for Garrett's review the first draft of the playbook, based on what Garrett has told him is important to keep in it and probably should be discarded... and which, then probably mostly met with Garrett's approval.

That, as opposed to Linehan, who probably handed to Garrett a playbook that mostly got rubber-stamped.

2) And during the season, Moore will probably incrementally move from having a lot of Nussmeier/Garrett interaction in formulating each week's game plan, to perhaps having gained so much confidence from his supervisor that he mostly formulates it all on his own.

Linehan, it was widely understood, always had charge to formulate game plans on his own... again, b/c he long ago formed a bond/trust with Garrett, so that's just reasonable.

3) For now, there is no indication that Garrett is going to go back to calling plays like opposing HCs in LA and NO do, and rather, every indication that Moore will be the in-game play caller. But the degree of helicopter parenting that Moore is likely to experience pre-game, in-game, and post-game is almost certainly going to be significant, especially at the beginning of the season. Like the game planning, that should reduce incrementally, but pragmatically we can be sure that that will be dictated by the W/L record.


Then, here's what I submit hasn't changed.

1) Moore, like Linehan, clearly gets to set the agenda for O coaches meetings. We know this much.

2) In training camp, Moore probably will interact with the offensive coaches much like Linehan did... observing what seems to work, what doesn't seem to work, which players seem to be best deployed for which plays, etc.

3) He probably will have essentially the same voice that Linehan did when it comes to making offensive cuts, though, he might be ever-so-slightly less influential than Linehan would have been if there is a debate about a certain player with one of the position coaches.


Where am I wrong, and why?
 

OmerV

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True. But you leave out that some OCs have more control than others. (And you know that's true, so why not acknowledge that?)

While it's true that Linehan was hired because he and Garrett shared offensive philosophy, the point remains that Linehan was given practically complete control over the offense. I'm sure he and Garrett compared notes, I'm sure Garrett still had input, just as you suggest. I'm also confident that Garrett never spoke about the need for Linehan to collaborate with his offensive coaches. It was ubiquitously understood in these parts that Linehan was large and in charge in the same way that Marinelli was.

That's changed. That's different now.

1) Kellen Moore probably has already gotten to put on the table for Garrett's review the first draft of the playbook, based on what Garrett has told him is important to keep in it and probably should be discarded... and which, then probably mostly met with Garrett's approval.

That, as opposed to Linehan, who probably handed to Garrett a playbook that mostly got rubber-stamped.

2) And during the season, Moore will probably incrementally move from having a lot of Nussmeier/Garrett interaction in formulating each week's game plan, to perhaps having gained so much confidence from his supervisor that he mostly formulates it all on his own.

Linehan, it was widely understood, always had charge to formulate game plans on his own... again, b/c he long ago formed a bond/trust with Garrett, so that's just reasonable.

3) For now, there is no indication that Garrett is going to go back to calling plays like opposing HCs in LA and NO do, and rather, every indication that Moore will be the in-game play caller. But the degree of helicopter parenting that Moore is likely to experience pre-game, in-game, and post-game is almost certainly going to be significant, especially at the beginning of the season. Like the game planning, that should reduce incrementally, but pragmatically we can be sure that that will be dictated by the W/L record.


Then, here's what I submit hasn't changed.

1) Moore, like Linehan, clearly gets to set the agenda for O coaches meetings. We know this much.

2) In training camp, Moore probably will interact with the offensive coaches much like Linehan did... observing what seems to work, what doesn't seem to work, which players seem to be best deployed for which plays, etc.

3) He probably will have essentially the same voice that Linehan did when it comes to making offensive cuts, though, he might be ever-so-slightly less influential than Linehan would have been if there is a debate about a certain player with one of the position coaches.


Where am I wrong, and why?

Without a doubt some OCs have more control than others, but it remains to be seen with Moore. I think at the end of the day they simply realize that no matter how highly they regard Moore, he is still in his first year as OC and only his second year of coaching. I would imagine that if he has success he will have more and more control.
 

TwoDeep3

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As the season progresses and it gets to a point that Moore and Garrett don't see eye to eye on the plays or game plan in general? Will Moore have the say so on game and halftime adjustments or will Garrett try to retain that power?

Garrett has ti stand on a foot stool?
 

calicowboy54

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As the season progresses and it gets to a point that Moore and Garrett don't see eye to eye on the plays or game plan in general? Will Moore have the say so on game and halftime adjustments or will Garrett try to retain that power?

i would love for this to happen but, because he's a 1st time OC he's not going to butt heads with Jason as they have said 100x that the week to week game plan is going to be a collaborative effort between Moore, Kitna, Nussmire-SP? and Garrett...
 

cowboy_ron

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i would love for this to happen but, because he's a 1st time OC he's not going to butt heads with Jason as they have said 100x that the week to week game plan is going to be a collaborative effort between Moore, Kitna, Nussmire-SP? and Garrett...
Then expect the status quo...............Garrett is the common denominator in failed offenses........Linehane basically the same offense when Garrett was playing OC........there's a reason why Garrett was removed from play calling.
 

Fire407

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Garrett has never had the ability to adjust during a game or at halftime. Hopefully Jerry will trust Moore to see what is or isn't working and adjust.
 

Bleu Star

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As the season progresses and it gets to a point that Moore and Garrett don't see eye to eye on the plays or game plan in general? Will Moore have the say so on game and halftime adjustments or will Garrett try to retain that power?
That will be the time Richard replaces puppet. (& Lord only knows I can't wait...)
 

cowboy_ron

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That will be the time Richard replaces puppet. (& Lord only knows I can't wait...)
If our incompetent FO is actually dumb enough to put Garrett back in control of this offense after proving for nearly a decade that he's incapable of success then I hope this team doesn't win in spite of him.......THAT is how much I want him gone.................another year of wasted talent and possibly careers.
 

_sturt_

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Without a doubt some OCs have more control than others, but it remains to be seen with Moore. I think at the end of the day they simply realize that no matter how highly they regard Moore, he is still in his first year as OC and only his second year of coaching. I would imagine that if he has success he will have more and more control.


If you read what I wrote, then you know we basically agree on all of that.

That is, with the caveat that "success" is defined both in terms of (a) offensive performance and (b) demonstration that he (KM) is assimilating well in how Garrett wants things done.
 

Buzzbait

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Well first of all everybody knows that in training camp and preseason the offense of every team is pretty vanilla. Nobody wants to show what they might really be doing in the regular season. I think Jerry has faith in Moore to run the offense now and the during the regular season.
Why would Moore need Garrett to teach him anything about running vanilla offenses?

Who better to teach him the intricacies of mediocrity that Garrett? Garrett is the master of mediocrity. :laugh:
 

OmerV

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If you read what I wrote, then you know we basically agree on all of that.

That is, with the caveat that "success" is defined both in terms of (a) offensive performance and (b) demonstration that he (KM) is assimilating well in how Garrett wants things done.

Admittedly, because I am often doing things during the day and just squeezing in time on this site in between, I can occasionally be guilty of skimming a little when reading longer posts. Looking back I do see that we basically agree.

I disagree that Linehan handed Garrett a playbook that got rubber stamped because Linehan's background was not as a running coach. He had always been a very pass heavy coach in the past. Accordingly, I suspect he was either given Garrett's playbook as a foundation/template, and asked to make adjustments from there, or he was asked to create a new playbook that was different from what he had used in the past, in which case I imagine Garrett would have wanted to review it and discuss it at great lengths before giving it his approval.
 

OmerV

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I don't know, apparently he let Linehan do or call whatever he wanted.

He let Linnehan call what he wanted within the bounds of an approved game plan, and Garrett could always give more imput into if he felt things weren't going the right way. I don't know how much Garrett exercised that right with Linehan, but there were reports that Linehan was essentially neutered the latter part of last season and that game plans became less his domain and more based on input from Garrett and Moore. I don't want to say that is true, because I can't know, but some claimed that was the case. I don't know what their source of that info was.
 
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