Saquon mania vs. Ezekiel facts

Got nothing on Joseph Randle.

QuincyCarterEra said:

Did you read it Jazz?

His last sentence "this kid has to show me things before he's mentioned in the same breathe as Zeke"

Click to expand...

I did read it, but it was when 1st posted yesterday, and forgot it was in there.
My apologies.
Now have some coffee in me for the day.

jazzcat22 said:

I did read it, but it was when 1st posted yesterday, and forgot it was in there.
My apologies.
Now have some coffee in me for the day.

Click to expand...

Happens to all of us

Never has one poster done so much to matter so little and I do appreciate the amount of work put in here but only a family member would go to this length to try and make a unprovable point.

What would Barkley have done in the Cowboys offense with a vastly superior OL? That was the rap from those when NY drafted him. "He'll never make it with them, bad OL and he bumps everything to the outside". Well, so do most backs when the middle is clogged up.

I view this the same way I did when Emmitt was a Cowboy. Sanders was electrifying and Thomas was a great dual threat but I was glad we had Emmitt and his "all roundedness".

All things being equal with health, I will still take Gurley, Barkley and then either Elliott or Kamara but I wouldn't pay any of them top 5 money because RB's are just not critical to a team's success.

Barkley led the league in 20+ and 40+ but let's take that away from him since that was also what he did in college? While we're at it, let's say Elliott's 20th ranking in TD's makes him better than all the others including Gurley's 17, Kamara's 14 and Conner's and Henry's 12 while Elliott got the most carries in the league.

JBS said:

If you cant understand the importance of how good Zeke is at grinding yards, there isn't much we can do to help you..nobody in the league gets dirty yards like Zeke

Click to expand...

LMAO, dirty yards in the 22nd ranked offense in yards?

I think these 2 guys are the easily the top 2 in the league. I'll take Zeke because he is a workhorse, however, I feel like a number of folks here on this thread are trying <really> hard to tear down Barkley.

Barkley led the league in yards from scrimmage as rookie. He averaged 5 ypc. He had 91 catches. What's not to like?

It's the 90s anymore where a smash-mouth/grind it out running game where back then it was the obvious way to go. In the modern league with where the rules have overwhelming shifted to opening up the passing game, a RB (like Barkley) who a thrives outside the tackles is just a useful.

FuzzyLumpkins said:

This has been explained. When you do the same adjustment to both players it is objective apples to apples.

Click to expand...

No it’s not. Because your adjustment is intentionally handicapping Saquon’s clear talent superiority in specific areas over Zeke. So your adjustment is to avoid those so you can show where Zeke is superior only.

FuzzyLumpkins said:

It's not dopey to remove outliers.

Click to expand...

Which was the outlier?

His 78 yard rush?
His 68 yard rush?
His other 68 yard rush?
Or his three 50+ yard rushes?

At some point you have to understand they aren't outliers.

PoetTree said:

Oh, I'd love to know what doesn't make sense.




He also threw for 414 more yards than Dak and had a higher yards-per-completion. He had one fewer touchdown. Overall, Eli was a more prolific passer than Dak in 2018. Drew Brees is the most prolific passer in NFL history. You know why? Because he's passed for more yards than anyone else.

You really seem intent on complicating and even being offended by some pretty simple concepts...

Click to expand...

Let’s break down the stats difference into a 1 game performance.

It’d be 400 yards passing, -1 tds and 4 interceptions. In your opinion, that is a prolific day of passing? No, that’s god awful.

CouchCoach said:

Never has one poster done so much to matter so little and I do appreciate the amount of work put in here but only a family member would go to this length to try and make a unprovable point.

What would Barkley have done in the Cowboys offense with a vastly superior OL? That was the rap from those when NY drafted him. "He'll never make it with them, bad OL and he bumps everything to the outside". Well, so do most backs when the middle is clogged up.

I view this the same way I did when Emmitt was a Cowboy. Sanders was electrifying and Thomas was a great dual threat but I was glad we had Emmitt and his "all roundedness".

All things being equal with health, I will still take Gurley, Barkley and then either Elliott or Kamara but I wouldn't pay any of them top 5 money because RB's are just not critical to a team's success.

Barkley led the league in 20+ and 40+ but let's take that away from him since that was also what he did in college? While we're at it, let's say Elliott's 20th ranking in TD's makes him better than all the others including Gurley's 17, Kamara's 14 and Conner's and Henry's 12 while Elliott got the most carries in the league.

Click to expand...

I don't think our offensive line has been as good the last couple of seasons as some suggest - JMO

QuincyCarterEra said:

Which was the outlier?

His 78 yard rush?
His 68 yard rush?
His other 68 yard rush?
Or his three 50+ yard rushes?

At some point you have to understand they aren't outliers.

Click to expand...

That's like the rap on Sanders. Oh yeah? Well, look at all of those lost yards.

Barkley is the scariest back in the league and teams that face him are just glad he's the offense.

Streetwise said:

I don't think our offensive line has been as good the last couple of seasons as some suggest - JMO

Click to expand...

Agreed as far as pass blocking, but both PFF and football outsiders have had the teams run blocking as top 10 the last two years.

JBS said:

If you cant understand the importance of how good Zeke is at grinding yards, there isn't much we can do to help you..nobody in the league gets dirty yards like Zeke

Click to expand...

There is zero doubt that Zeke is the best RB in the league, by far, at grinding out yards.

In the 1990s, there was no better attribute for a RB.

In the modern game, so heavily tilted via rules changes to a more wide open passing game, is grinding out yards the #1 attribute of a RB? I'm not sure.

How many SB winning teams the past 10 years had a grinder?

QuincyCarterEra said:

Which was the outlier?

His 78 yard rush?
His 68 yard rush?
His other 68 yard rush?
Or his three 50+ yard rushes?

At some point you have to understand they aren't outliers.

Click to expand...

That is 6 out of 261 rushes on the year, which is 2.3% of his 2018 runs.

Statistically speaking, that is the definition of outlying.

PoetTree said:

That is 6 out of 261 rushes on the year, which is 2.3% of his 2018 runs.

Statistically speaking, that is the definition of outlying.

Click to expand...

No it isn’t. You’re clueless. And that’s not even what you did.

You removed the best run from each game, literally because you wanted to, not because it made any sense. I mean maybe it would if every game Barkley had an 80 yard run sandwiched between a dozen three yard runs. Against the Bears he managed 125 yards on 24 carries and had, among others, a 29, a 22 and a 14 yard run. Where’s the outlier? Please stop embarrassing yourself and walk away.

Whirlwin said:

Keel Elliott is not a focused football player. He always has something going on besides football he misses blocks takes wrong angles he takes himself out of the game way more than I appreciate. Although I understand why he does. I still don't like it be a decoy. Yes he's the best running back for yards after contact. That's all in my opinion kid until he gets his head back on straight. Twice he could already into the endzone last season and failed

Click to expand...

Are you talking about the same Elliott?

His focus on football with the off the field concerns is fair. But his blocking and vision? Zeke is an incredible blocker and has excellent vision.

CouchCoach said:

LMAO, dirty yards in the 22nd ranked offense in yards?

Click to expand...

We ranked 22nd in yards because our style of play (ball-control offense, bend-don't-break defense) limited our number of offensive possessions. 30 offenses had more possessions.

On a per-drive basis, the Dallas offense ranked 14th in yards in 2018. 22nd before the trade for Cooper, 7th after.

QuincyCarterEra said:

Did you read it Jazz?

His last sentence "this kid has to show me things before he's mentioned in the same breathe as Zeke"

Click to expand...

For posterity, what I meant by that was to be framed within the overarching context of the thread, which was to address people crowning Barkley as the best running back in the league --and my opinion is that Zeke is the best, most consistent, most productive back in the league; and the statistics proffered here were merely a way to demonstrate that empirically-- not to say that Barkley isn't great. In fact, I think he might be the second-best halfback in the league, much as I thought Barry Sanders was the second-best halfback in the league because he couldn't match Emmitt's inevitability. Which is not to say that Barry Sanders wasn't great.

But if the context is, 'best back in the league', then as I concluded, Barkley's got to show me some things before he's in the same breath with Zeke. Because at this point, Elliott is out-producing him handily across the far broader percentage of carries and when their respective teams need it most...

Streetwise said:

I don't think our offensive line has been as good the last couple of seasons as some suggest - JMO

Click to expand...

Hell of a lot better than the Giants had. You give Barkley some of those holes that Elliott got run down and he'd own the record in 20+ and 40+.

Elliott is the best player on the Cowboys but he's not the best RB in the NFL.

The term "generational talent' gets casually thrown around the forum but there is only one I've seen since Brady and that is Barkley. I am not a Penn St fan, although I do like their coach, and I am not usually bent toward watching a team for one player but after the first time I saw him do what looked physically impossible, I tried to catch every televised game. I have never seen any player do what he can do except Barry Sanders.

He came form the same kind of team he's on now, he was the offense. It's all about stopping him and at least keeping him bottled up. And if he can stay healthy, we haven't seen the best Barkley yet.

I do not know of any back I have ever watched that could have made that leap to score that goal line TD that he made against the Cowboys. If there's any player in the NFL that should be playing that "Superman" role, it sure as hell isn't that tool in CAR, it's Barkley. And just like Superman, he'll be Clark Kent for most of a game but then on comes the cape.

percyhoward said:

We ranked 22nd in yards because our style of play (ball-control offense, bend-don't-break defense) limited our number of offensive possessions. 30 offenses had more possessions.

On a per-drive basis, the Dallas offense ranked 14th in yards in 2018. 22nd before the trade for Cooper, 7th after.

Click to expand...

Since this team ran it's offense through the RB as much as any in the league, would not the presence of that RB account for some of that?

Are we making excuses for the RB in a RB based offense? I am not saying Elliott isn't a great back, he's just not the best or better than Barkley.