Pay Dak/lose player or pay the others and Franchise Dak

Altestic said:

Pay the others, tag and trade Prescott for a 1st and two 2nds and a 4th.

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NotForLong said:

So you are telling me Mike can't hand off and dink and dunk. Sure buddy. . . if he's as able to throw the back shoulder that's 350 more yards for Zeke easy. Can't Jam the Line. Did you watch the Tennessee game. Showed how to beat us by stopping Amari

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Haha you're delusional and that's why you aren't in an NFL front office.

NotForLong said:

None of those QB's you mentioned played with Zeke. . . So what's your point

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Zeke isn't the only reason we won 12 more games than those guys. We had a running game in 15

NotForLong said:

No I think we only win now because of Zeke.

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Because you're a fool

408Cowboy said:

How long was Romo in the league before he started making careers?

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"In the league" is a completely irrelevent argument since Romo was not given a chance to play until year 3. This was b/c b/c Parcells does not like young QBs preferring to go with veterans like Drew Bledsoe. In Romo's first full year as the starter, he threw 36 TDs passes.......Romo was a tremendoes boost for TO who had only 6 TD catches his final year in Philly. He had 13 and 15TD passess his first 2 years catching balls from Romo.

Dak is not a WR friendly QB b/c he's innacurate and will likely never reach 30TD passes in one season........ Something Romo did in 4 of his 8 seasons as a full time starter with a far inferior OL for most of it.

Irvin88_4life said:

Have you seen White play..... Dude is terrible in the pocket. We would be lucky to win one game with White at QB.

The team elevates Dak and Dak elevates the team. Without Dak this team would be terrible and picking top 5 in the draft. Stop being delusional and open your eyes.

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You to lay off the sauce bud.....

davidariust24 said:

I listen to a few shows over a period of time . I may add a link later . The argument is that Dak is an average QB while Zeke, Cooper , Jaylon, and Byron Jones are all in the top 10 at their position. You would have to take Coopers stats over 9 games and project them over the full 16 to get the gist. The question being why lose players that are elite or have the potential to be elite over an average QB? Just pay that you can first and leave enough to FRANCHISE Dak. Someone could be left out like B Jones but you'd have everyone else paid. If Dak is picked up you get 2 first round picks or you work out a deal. If Dak balls out this season of course you'd pay him a big deal.

The question is what if we get the same production this season as these first three seasons? Is his stat line worth 30+ million?

Dak is a good QB but 30+ for some more of the same?

The key is Dak needs 16 games of what he did when Cooper got here. That's what we need and that's what we expect. If he can give me 16 games of the last 9. I'm happy to pay him. If he somehow reverts back to the first 7 then I'm sorry it's time to find another QB.

The BIG question is are you confident we will get the last 9 games Dak plus an off season with Cooper and the crew or that he just isn't enough? What do you guys think?

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QB:

The problem i have with Dak is not about the money he will get. QB is the most important player on your roster. So you have to have one and you pay him regardless the amount when you are confident he is the right one.

Here comes my problem: i am still not convinced he really is the franchise QB we need to make it to and win the big game. So the question is: do you bind your franchises faith to him ?

QBs usually dont get intensive ladden contracts or ones that are build to be able to cut him after 2 years. You commit on your QB - that comes by the nature of the position and responsibility he has to handle.

Right now i am not willing to commit to him. So i would play him out his rookie contract. If he is able to show that he can get better on his flaws (which i dont want to list here, cause i did it already in other posts) then i am totally for it to give him a new contract. Be it 30 or 33 mils / year. I would not care. But if i am not satisfied with what i see from him this season i would FT him in 2020 and take the same approach for 1 more year.

RB:

I like Zeke. He is a great back. He to me is not a top 3 back right now but that has more to do with the competition right now in the NFL: I see LeBell, Gurley and Barkley in front of him. But that can change quickly: Gurleys bad knee, Barkley has only had one season, DCs didnt really game plan for him.

The problem i have is more about the position then the player. RB is a position that usually doesnt take long to adjust to the NFL. Zeke needed 2 games before he reached production for us. WRs, QBs, Lineman, 4-3 DEs, LBs usually need more time to adjust.

So from a plug and play view its way more easy to find a good RB then other players. That makes the position more easy for change. There are more reasons to not give out a second contract i just want to mention: usual lifetime (production) of a RB in the NFL, high salary of good backs 2nd contracts compared to rookies, trade value of a great back in his prime.

I would let Zeke play out his contract and always look for trade offers. If the price is ok for me (for instance the rumour about the raiders - 1 first their drafted RB and safety for Zeke) would be a welcome choice for me.

After Zekes contract i would FT him and, if he still produces FT him again. But as i saidi would always look out for possible trades. I would NOT give him a second contract. If he really wants to hold out i would play the hard game.

WR:

I think with the inbestement we made by trading for Cooper it is a given we have to sign him. Regardless i dont see any preassure to do it now. Lets see what kind of season ge will have first. If he is able to keep up his game, i would sign him earlierst midth of the season. I see Cooper not as a top 10 WR. So the contract would be in the range of the amount a ranked 12-15 player would get. In the end i see us giving him top 5 money. But that comes with the deal we made and the bound we are in thru that.

CB:

I am not convinced by all the props Jones gets. He to me is a good fit for the DBs our secondary coach is looking for. So thats a plus for him. But he also profits greatly from the way he is used in Richards scheme. He is a good CB but he is not near a shutdown corner ( but then, with the new rules and all, who is able to be one).

I would let him play out the 5th year and have a look and see next offseason. I want to see how our other CBs develope first. Richards, whom i think alot of, was IMO also brought here to be able to make the secondary cheaper. I think he is able to fit rookies in and let them play like "pro bowlers" even if they dont have the overall talent. Right now i would trust on that. But also here: lets see first how the season playa out and how he is able to bring our CBs along. I am especially eager to see how he is able to bring Jackson along.

To me Brown is a very criticised player that does deserve more props. He handles the slot very well. I could see us sign him in the offseason and have a career Scandrik had with us (able to stick around much longer then people think, getting criticed a lot, but does his job on a good level).

Awuzie is a good CB. Right now their is no question about a new contract. He has his rookie salary speaking for him.

LB:

LVE is in his second year. I dont think a lot abou5 his decond contract right now. You dont plan 4 years ahead in todays NFL IMO.

Smith is a bigger problem. He looked great last year. If he can repeat that i think i would sign him. Mayve even in the midth of the season. But he had major knee injury, that always will affect his longlivity. If he shows no sign of problems with his knee, then a 2nd contract is a given for me.

RT:

If Collins shows enough in traing camp to be able to handle a tackle spot i would suggest a switch next season. I would La'el walk and live with the compensation pick ill get. Which will be a 3rd anyways. Thats a good change for the minimal investement we had in him.


Thats it from me. Did i forgot something ?

PAPPYDOG said:

You to lay off the sauce bud.....

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You are delusional. This team was 4-12 before Dak got here and 3 of those wins were from Romo. They picked number 4 overall...... Like I said top 5 pick in the draft.

OmerV said:

A couple of factors missing from this discussion are the importance of the QB position, and the scarcity of quality players to fill the QB position. There is a big supply and demand problem at QB, and while Dak isn't elite, he is a quality NFL QB, and there aren't many to go around. And the QB position is too valuable to turn away from a quality player and just gamble that something will fall in your lap. Even if the Cowboys had a Top 10 draft pick in 2020, which is highly unlikely, the odds of getting a Blaine Gabbert or Jake Locker or Blake Bortles or Ryan Tannehill is higher than getting a Patrick Mahomes. That's why the price for QB's has sky rocketed.

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If you look at Blake Bortles and Tannehills stats at least in their best years you can see that they are very comparable to Daks. This is my point just like you say it's easy to find a Tannehill or a Bortles, would it be just as easy to find another Dak? If you look at their stats? The number of wins first goes to the team , then you have to break down the team to its engine and then parts. Dak isnt the engine on this team it's the run game. This is why the offensive line is getting paid like they do and why zeke deserves to be paid. Dak is like you say a beneficiary of high demand on QBs, so the question is HOW HARD WOULD IT BE TO FIND OR EVEN GROOM A QB TO BE ANOTHER DAK?

Altestic said:

The Eagles game was all Cooper. The Saints game; how many sacks did he take, plus you have to count all turnovers not just interceptions. A good QB (Brady for example) doesn't take many sacks despite an average at best offensive line.

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Ah, I see, when the passing game is clicking it's all the receivers, not the passer. And when it's not, it's all the passer.

Dak didn't throw an interception in the Saints game. He did lose one fumble. But there's nothing unusual about one QB turnover in a game. Yes, he took a lot of sacks; the line was a disaster in pass protection at that point and when you're throwing only 4 incompletions in 28 passes with an 8.8 YPA, it takes a heckuva lot more than a few sacks and a single turnover to get to "trying to lose the game" territory.

davidariust24 said:

If you look at Blake Bortles and Tannehills stats at least in their best years you can see that they are very comparable to Daks. This is my point just like you say it's easy to find a Tannehill or a Bortles, would it be just as easy to find another Dak? If you look at their stats? The number of wins first goes to the team , then you have to break down the team to its engine and then parts. Dak isnt the engine on this team it's the run game. This is why the offensive line is getting paid like they do and why zeke deserves to be paid. Dak is like you say a beneficiary of high demand on QBs, so the question is HOW HARD WOULD IT BE TO FIND OR EVEN GROOM A QB TO BE ANOTHER DAK?

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The franchise hasn't spent a 1st round pick on a QB since 1989. So, nobody knows how long it would take. What I do know is that Dak has been a good value and the smart thing to do would be to franchise him after next year. The average salary of the next 2 seasons would make a lot of sense. But, our window is closing. It makes no sense to keep Dak, pay him the 30+ million per year he wants, and then be cap strapped to the point where we can surround him with a ton of talent and still field a defense.

davidariust24 said:

If you look at Blake Bortles and Tannehills stats at least in their best years you can see that they are very comparable to Daks. This is my point just like you say it's easy to find a Tannehill or a Bortles, would it be just as easy to find another Dak? If you look at their stats? The number of wins first goes to the team , then you have to break down the team to its engine and then parts. Dak isnt the engine on this team it's the run game. This is why the offensive line is getting paid like they do and why zeke deserves to be paid. Dak is like you say a beneficiary of high demand on QBs, so the question is HOW HARD WOULD IT BE TO FIND OR EVEN GROOM A QB TO BE ANOTHER DAK?

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Aside from the fact that it isn't really fair to cherry pick only the best year or two of another guy for the sake of comparing them to Dak … and aside from the fact that the guys you named are several years beyond their peak years … and aside from the fact that it isn't easy for every NFL team to have even a Tannehill or Bortles level player ...

In terms of passing yardage and TD's, in their best years Bortles and Tannehill did compare to Dak, and have even exceeded Dak in a few years, but not in terms of efficiency or effectiveness.

Dak's QB rating is 96, while Tannehill's is 87 and Bortles is 80. In fact, neither have even had one year with a QB rating as high as Dak's career average so far. Bortles and Tannehill both have a higher INT%, lower TD%, lower yards per catch and lower completion % than Dak. And then there is the addition of Dak's legs. He is averaging 6 TDs a season as a runner, and gets a lot of rushing 1st downs for a QB.

And, of course, there's the leadership aspect, which can't be measured by numbers. I can't speak too much about Tannehill and Bortles on this because I obviously don't keep as close watch on their teams and the players, but Dak is highly regarded as a leader on the field and in the locker room.

davidariust24 said:

If you look at Blake Bortles and Tannehills stats at least in their best years you can see that they are very comparable to Daks. This is my point just like you say it's easy to find a Tannehill or a Bortles, would it be just as easy to find another Dak? If you look at their stats? The number of wins first goes to the team , then you have to break down the team to its engine and then parts. Dak isnt the engine on this team it's the run game. This is why the offensive line is getting paid like they do and why zeke deserves to be paid. Dak is like you say a beneficiary of high demand on QBs, so the question is HOW HARD WOULD IT BE TO FIND OR EVEN GROOM A QB TO BE ANOTHER DAK?

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Bortles and Tannehill are who in the what now? I couldn't get past your first sentence.

Bortles has never reached a 90 passer rating; that's awful in today's NFL. His completion percentage peaked at 60.3%, also bad. His Y/A peaked at 7.3; that's not terrible...but he led the league in interceptions and sacks that year. Bortles's very best season looks somewhat comparable to Dak's worst season, if you ignore rushing entirely. They're nothing alike.

Tannehill is better than Bortles, but has never managed a passer rating (or QBR) as good as Dak's two best years and isn't nearly the runner Dak is. Oh, and he was the 8th overall pick in the draft. It's not at all easy to get a Tannehill (the person you were responding to didn't say it was easy), but you're way more likely to get a Tannehill or Bortles than a Dak in the draft.

JD_KaPow said:

Bortles and Tannehill are who in the what now? I couldn't get past your first sentence.

Bortles has never reached a 90 passer rating; that's awful in today's NFL. His completion percentage peaked at 60.3%, also bad. His Y/A peaked at 7.3; that's not terrible...but he led the league in interceptions and sacks that year. Bortles's very best season looks somewhat comparable to Dak's worst season, if you ignore rushing entirely. They're nothing alike.

Tannehill is better than Bortles, but has never managed a passer rating (or QBR) as good as Dak's two best years and isn't nearly the runner Dak is. Oh, and he was the 8th overall pick in the draft. It's not at all easy to get a Tannehill (the person you were responding to didn't say it was easy), but you're way more likely to get a Tannehill or Bortles than a Dak in the draft.

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Unless you are harkening back to 2016 when nobody knew him or his tendancies, Dak has been a very average/below average QB. He's a 22-23 TD pass per year kind of QB and doesn't show much promise of improving on it. So, why pay him 30+million...... Fear of the unknown?

atlantacowboy said:

Unless you are harkening back to 2016 when nobody knew him or his tendancies, Dak has been a very average/below average QB. He's a 22-23 TD pass per year kind of QB and doesn't show much promise of improving on it. So, why pay him 30+million...... Fear of the unknown?

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So...what does this have to do with what I said? Dak >> Tannehill >> Bortles, and believing they're about the same betrays a deep lack of understanding of QB play.

JD_KaPow said:

So...what does this have to do with what I said? Dak >> Tannehill >> Bortles, and believing they're about the same betrays a deep lack of understanding of QB play.

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Bortles lead his team to the AFC title game without his best rb , a mediocre OL and wr core........i'll take bortles any day over dak.

Dak took a team built for Romo to the playoffs and should of beat GB Dak had over 300 yards and 3TDs...Dak is the most accurate QB in their 1st 3 seasons EVER, more 4th Q comebacks than ANYONE, won div 2 out of 3 years, with No #1 WR, a terrible oline due to rookies and injuries, and you want to trade him? Not pay him?...Dak is a top 10-12 QB...and with a full training camp w WRs and returning Travis & Witten w a top 5 defense..this will be his year

Altestic said:

Incorrect. Even if Dak is the 20th best QB in the NFL, he will have a market. Not every team is the Cowboys and some are struggling teams who struggle to fill the stadium. The Cowboys could go 0-16 for a decade and still fill the stadium because of their brand name. Some teams are much more desperate. Miami comes to mind, especially if they miss out on Tagovailoa for example. Look at how much average joe QBs like Cousins and Flacco, hell even bad ones with a few good games under their belt like Bradford and Glennon got paid.

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Miami currently has 2 x QBs on its roster that are probably better than Dak.

csirl said:

Miami currently has 2 x QBs on its roster that are probably better than Dak.

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Journeyman Fitztragic is worse than Prescott. I was never high on Rosen, though that book is still wide open. He seems awfully Mike White-ish, at least the preseason version of Mike White.

csirl said:

Miami currently has 2 x QBs on its roster that are probably better than Dak.

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Lmaoooooooo!!