Women's World Cup

Again, why don't you answer why a 29 year old fighter in their prime age retires after back to back disgusting losses?

The answer is because she couldn't hang and would rather try and make money in the WWE and in hollywood while she still has some name recognition. A slew of losses would have further tarnished her legacy and that is why she left. Again, there are about 5 or 6 girls now that would destroy her in the ring. That's not something you can say when you're an all-time champion.

Look at Ali for example who should have retired way earlier. Had his legacy been dictated by his end it would have been terrible, but fortunately he can hang his hat on victories in huge fights against champions like Frasier and Foreman.

Who did Rousey beat that cements her legacy? 18-7 Meisha Tate? Sorry, that won't cut it.

Let's compare Rousey and Nunes.

Rousey never beat anyone that had already won a championship. She has lost to two people who have held the belt. Tate won the belt after she lost to Rousey.

Nunes has fought and beaten everyone that ever held the belt. She has twice beaten the current flyweight champion and is considering a move to flyweight to take that belt as well. She also has the featherweight championship belt going a weight class above, both things that Rousey refused to do.

Only criticism of Nunes is that she hasn't fought Vieira, who is currently undefeated and instead decided to fight Holly Holm, who while a champion has had a string of defeats and is clearly done as a fighter.

Galian Beast said:

They're certainly the best, but they also had a world cup championship drought for 16 years.

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I really hate negative people.

Galian Beast said:

I get it, you're into media buzz. She has no legacy. She got beat up twice after beating 6 nobodies. She'll be forgotten quickly.

You think it isn't entertaining even though you aren't watching. Watch the Cyborg Nunes fight and tell me that isn't as entertaining as ANY Rousey fight. Nunes Holm was also very entertaining.

You've never heard of these people, have no idea who they are, or how good they are, but you're convinced that because Rousey was popular she was as talented as she was popular... Great argument.

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Again, you are attributing ideas and opinions to me that I have never expressed. Not once have I said in this whole discussion that I think Rousey is the best or most talented female MMA fighter. I'll leave that to the self proclaimed experts like you.

All I have ever said is pretty dam obvious. She opened the door for women in the UFC and absolutely had a huge hand in popularizing MMA in general. Her PPV numbers are on par with Connor MacGregor as among the best of all time. You want to turn that simple discussion into a debate about whether she earned the right. Its a moot point, dude. It happened already.

Rockport said:

I really hate negative people.

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How is that negative? It's a fact. They won in 1999 and they won in 2015.

Galian Beast said:

How is that negative? It's a fact. They won in 1999 and they won in 2015.

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Because all your focus was on the negative and you went out of your way to ignore the positive.

atlantacowboy said:

Again, you are attributing ideas and opinions to me that I have never expressed. Not once have ever said in this whole discussion that I think Rousey is the best or most talented female MMA fighter. I'll leave to the self proclaimed experts like you.

All I have ever said is pretty dam obvious. She opened the door for women in the UFC and absolutely had a huge hand in popularizing MMA in general. Her PPV numbers are on par with Connor MacGregor as the best of all time. You want to turn that simple discussion into a debate about whether she earned the right. Its a moot point, dude. It happened already.

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She opened the door because she was attractive, excentric, and promoted. What she earned or didn't earn is outside the point. The point is that she isn't as good as people think she was and that has played out. I think she was able to dominate a division that was forming and was aided in that by a promotion that wanted her to win and gave her opponents she could beat handily. All of which is pretty self-evident.

UFC has droughts in PPV numbers all the time. Some champions bring in viewers and others do not. That being said, Nunes is a much better champion than Rousey, and even she is ducking competition to a degree.

Rockport said:

Because all your focus was on the negative and you went out of your way to ignore the positive.

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I think you've cherry-picked, I've said they're the best in the world time and time again. Seems like you're the negative one here ignoring the positive.

Galian Beast said:

Let's compare Rousey and Nunes.

Rousey never beat anyone that had already won a championship. She has lost to two people who have held the belt. Tate won the belt after she lost to Rousey.

Nunes has fought and beaten everyone that ever held the belt. She has twice beaten the current flyweight champion and is considering a move to flyweight to take that belt as well. She also has the featherweight championship belt going a weight class above, both things that Rousey refused to do.

Only criticism of Nunes is that she hasn't fought Vieira, who is currently undefeated and instead decided to fight Holly Holm, who while a champion has had a string of defeats and is clearly done as a fighter.

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Lets compare their PPV numbers. lol

The general public has no idea who Veiera is and only know Holly Holm b/c she fought Rousey. It appears Nunez made the more lucrative fight.

Galian Beast said:

I think you've cherry-picked, I've said they're the best in the world time and time again. Seems like you're the negative one here ignoring the positive.

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Well you didn’t in that post.

Galian Beast said:

She opened the door because she was attractive, excentric, and promoted. What she earned or didn't earn is outside the point. The point is that she isn't as good as people think she was and that has played out. I think she was able to dominate a division that was forming and was aided in that by a promotion that wanted her to win and gave her opponents she could beat handily. All of which is pretty self-evident.

UFC has droughts in PPV numbers all the time. Some champions bring in viewers and others do not. That being said, Nunes is a much better champion than Rousey, and even she is ducking competition to a degree.

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UFC PPV numbers are directly proportional to the interest level in the participating fighters. Nunuz can't carry a PPV card. Thats just a fact. Maybe thats b/c she's not pretty or maybe thats b/c her fights are not that exciting.

atlantacowboy said:

Lets compare their PPV numbers. lol

The general public has no idea who Veiera is and only know Holly Holm b/c she fought Rousey. It appears Nunez made the more lucrative fight.

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I mean there is no arguing that is exactly what happened, but that is the problem with having fighters select their own fights. It's also something that holds the UFC back at least in my opinion. They haven't promoted Rousey, because she isn't as attractive as Rousey. English isn't her first language. Vieira doesn't speak english and that is the last thing the UFC wants as a champion. Undefeated, but can't catch a title shot.

Rockport said:

Well you didn’t in that post.

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It's actually literally what I posted. You might want to look again because you clearly cherry picked what you wanted to hear... It's the first thing I said in the quote you responded to...

atlantacowboy said:

Lets compare their PPV numbers. lol

The general public has no idea who Veiera is and only know Holly Holm b/c she fought Rousey. It appears Nunez made the more lucrative fight.

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There are a lot of reasons why her PPV don't do well. Again they haven't promoted her very well at all.

https://thebodylockmma.com/ufc/ufc-failed-create-female-star-since-ronda-rousey/

Galian Beast said:

She at least needs to fight Holm again before getting a title shot. She took an entire year off after a completely dominating performance. Meanwhile, others have positioned themselves for title fights only to be overlooked.

I don't think you understand the limited opportunities people get for a title fight. A champion might only fight once or twice in a year. You miss your shot and your wait could be another 18+ months as a result depending on when your next fight is scheduled as well.

Holm lost to three straight fighters after beating Rousey, showing that the division had massively moved on. Tate who beat Holm had already lost the belt immediately to Nunes. This is reformation.

And no I didn't see you have to fight everyone ranked ahead of you to get a title shot, but when you have a #1 contender who hasn't fought the champion yet. She literally climbed the ranks without fighting, which combined with her performance against Nunes, confirm she should not have been given the opportunity.

You might not know this but she fell in the rankings during her time away from UFC and miraculously was given ranking back. If she and her team weren't so cocky they would have had her take a comeback fight and maybe pick and choose her opponents again, but I think at this point they probably realized her best bet was a lucky opportunity against Nunes, she had no chance against these girls who were establishing themselves at the time of the Nunes Rousey fight.

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Says whom?

She was the #1 contender and after her first loss it was well-reasoned to think it may have been a fluke ala Tyson vs. Buster Douglas, so she was given the benefit of the doubt.

I also love how you’re now saying “A champion might only fight once or twice in a year.”

Yeah, ya don’t say?

Just a few posts earlier you were trying to criticize Rousey for only defending her title 7 times in roughly a three year span, as if that was odd. That’s a glaring contradiction.

Lastly, you don’t have any idea of the terms of the contracts these fighters sign. Rousey was a dominant champion and a PPV draw, she had leverage in her contracts just as McGregor did when he was at the peak of his powers. I’d be willing to bet she had a stipulation in her contract to get an automatic title shot if she lost her belt; that would have been Holms but she lost to Tate; it ended up being Nunez.

That’s the fight game; with winning comes priveledge.

CalPolyTechnique said:

Says whom?

She was the #1 contender and after her first loss it was well-reasoned to think it may have been a fluke ala Tyson vs. Buster Douglas, so she was given the benefit of the doubt.

I also love how you’re now saying “A champion might only fight once or twice in a year.”

Yeah, ya don’t say?

Just a few posts earlier you were trying to criticize Rousey for only defending her title 7 times in roughly a three year span, as if that was odd. That’s a glaring contradiction.

Lastly, you don’t have any idea of the terms of the contracts these fighters sign. Rousey was a dominant champion and a PPV draw, she had leverage in her contracts just as McGregor did when he was at the peak of his powers. I’d be willing to bet she had a stipulation in her contract to get an automatic title shot if she lost her belt; that would have been Holms but she lost to Tate; it ended up being Nunez.

That’s the fight game; with winning comes priveledge.

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Let me give you a point by point rebuttal:

1. She wasn't always the #1 contender, she dropped and miraculously rose without ever fighting again. She was ranked 3rd in July 2016. After Shevchenko beat Holm however, Rousey jumped to 2. Rousey climbed back to first after Tate lost to Pennington. i.e. Pennington and Schevchenko were doing work to try and climb up for a title fight. Pennington would have to wait a year and a half for a title match and Schevchenko just kept grinding. And my point is the people you credit her for beating were all beaten by these better fighters once the ranking system fleshed out a bit. You can't credit her with beating these people, but not credit these up and coming girls with doing the same, but then say they didn't deserve a title shot before her.

2. It was clear to anyone who knew what they were talking about that it wasn't a fluke. Lucky things can happen in fights, or unlucky, however, you look at it, but a truthful examination of Rousey's game shows that she had no striking ability to speak of. She should have been asked to prove she could be a striker before simply being vaunted back into a title fight. That's a pattern. She was given the title before there was even a division and then she was given a title fight when other girls had fought for it for over a year while she was licking her wounds.

3. I never criticized how many title defenses she had...

4. Look at what you've said. She was a dominant champion? What makes one a dominant champion. Fighting and winning or beating the best fighters available? She dominated fighters that weren't very good in a division that was hand crafted for her to avoid the best fighters.

5. I guarantee you she didn't have anything like that in her contract and that is a huge reach. She never thought any women could beat her and thought she could beat Mayweather in a fight. She believed the hype surrounding her and thought it was real. She didn't want to work her way back into the sport, she thought that she was who you apparently think she is, and she got in the ring with Nunes and got it worse than she did with Holm.

Maybe you just haven't watched these two fights...




This is back to back...

She beat Bethe "Won by Decision" Correia by knockout for only her 3rd career knockout and thought she was a boxer as a result. She stacked up her wins against fighters who were unlikely to knock her out and even less likely to beat her by submission.

Amanda Nunes and Holly Holm have 22 knockouts between the two of them. Averaging 11.

Rousey's six UFC competitors before the Holm fight have a combined 19 averaging 3.12.

If you don't realize that heavily shadows the outcomes in the last two fights versus the first six, you've lost the plot.

Who was she ducking? Cyborg, who has 17 knockouts... that's 17 in 24 or 70.1 percent knockout rate in her fights. Amand Nunes has 72.2 percent. Holly Holm, 47.1 percent.

Beth Correia? 13.3 percent.
Cat Zingano? 35.7 percent.
Alexis Davis? 6.9 percent.
Sara McMann? 6.25 percent.
Meisha Tate? 12 percent.
Liz Carmouche? 31.6 percent

Galian Beast said:

There are a lot of reasons why her PPV don't do well. Again they haven't promoted her very well at all.

https://thebodylockmma.com/ufc/ufc-failed-create-female-star-since-ronda-rousey/

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The premise of this article is wrong. Rousey wasn't a prop created by the UFC. She created her own menacing persona and did not win scripted fights. You discount her opponents but she still won most of those fights in exciting fashion and in under 1 round. But the biggest factor was that she was the first.

As for your other post, it was never Rousey's job to make fights. That is the job of Dana White. Rousey can't fight folks not in the promotion or who haven't earned a title shot. Cyborg did herself in with failed steroid tests. Nunez lost to Cat Zingano 2014. That set her career back maybe? Holm fought Rousey within a year of signing with the promotion. So, your ducking theory is a tad overblown.

atlantacowboy said:

The premise of this article is wrong. Rousey wasn't a prop created by the UFC. She created her own menacing persona and did not win scripted fights. You discount her opponents but she still won most of those fights in exciting fashion and in under 1 round. But the biggest factor was that she was the first.

As for your other post, it was never Rousey's job to make fights. That is the job of Dana White. Rousey can't fight folks not in the promotion or who haven't earned a title shot. Cyborg did herself in with failed steroid tests. Nunez lost to Cat Zingano 2014. That set her career back maybe? Holm fought Rousey within a year of signing with the promotion. So, your ducking theory is a tad overblown.

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There were plenty of opportunities for Cyborg to fight Rousey, Rousey wasn't having it. How do you discount Rousey saying she would fight Carano at 145 but not Cyborg after Cyborg forced Carano into retirement. That's clear as day.

After she lost to Zingano she was still ranked above Holm, yet Holm skated to a title fight. Bethe Correia was an undefeated fighter based on beating no one of note and winning most of her fights based on decisions, yet she got the fight instead of of Nunes. Like I said, they looked for people that wouldn't knock her out.