Why did we draft Zeke so high if RB is not needed to win a SB?

kskboys

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Stop with the miscalculation cost us a season angle.

That’s horsepoop.

2015 was a bomb because we had zero competent QBs, not because we didn’t have Murray.
That was the biggest part of it!!!! Can't disagree.
 

Idgit

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Once again, stating opinion as fact.

There are actually very few RB's who provide the chain moving short yardage stuff. Several teams have been looking for one for years. We made this miscalculation once and it cost us a season.

Special players? No. I'm against paying Zeke a huge contract. However, those tough yards RB's are much harder to find.

My opinions are just opinions. But it’s not coincidence that the facts generally support my opinions because I don’t base many opinions on just my emotional reaction to something.

Short yardage/goal line is one area where there’s an actual significant differentiation between RBs. Even then, the differentiation is not all that statistically significant. And even when you’re better than most at it, you can still get beat by it the way we did in the playoffs on 4th and 1 with the game on the line against the Rams.
 

Wood

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We drafted Zeke with a top 5 pick because we felt he could be f'ing Superman behind this offensive line. Well, we were right, Zeke has been as good as advertised on the field. If not for the suspension, he would have lead the league in rushing every single year since being drafted. Now I am just talking about on the field here, he has been everything we though he would be and then some, he is a flat out beast and the best RB in the entire NFL.

Now Zeke aint stupid and he has realized that if he is the best RB in the NFL, then he needs to be the highest paid RB in the NFL. This should not have come as a surprise to anybody, its human nature. If you are the best in your profession, then naturally you want to be compensated accordingly. Now some will say he signed a contract and that is your word of honor, but we all know contracts in the NFL are ripped up and redone all the time. Teams renegotiate contracts, ask players to take pay cuts, have players restructure, ect….so nobody should get their panties in a bunch over Zeke wanting more money before his rookie contract is up. I mean, it goes both ways, Hurns was just cut even though he still had one year left on his original contract.

So this all boils down to one thing, we did we draft a RB using a top 5 pick thinking he would be the best RB in the league if we were not prepared to make him the highest paid RB in the league? Serious question.

We seem to forget the reason Dallas uncharacteristically used such a high draft pick on a position they deem replaceable was to extend Tony Romo career. Zeke turned out to be effective NFL player but ultimately no NFL team should be this dependent on RB due to new rules that allow passing game to flourish and the short NFL careers RB have. Dallas is caught playing with a ideological mismatch who now wants to be highest paid at his position.
 

LatinMind

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We drafted Zeke with a top 5 pick because we felt he could be f'ing Superman behind this offensive line. Well, we were right, Zeke has been as good as advertised on the field. If not for the suspension, he would have lead the league in rushing every single year since being drafted. Now I am just talking about on the field here, he has been everything we though he would be and then some, he is a flat out beast and the best RB in the entire NFL.

Now Zeke aint stupid and he has realized that if he is the best RB in the NFL, then he needs to be the highest paid RB in the NFL. This should not have come as a surprise to anybody, its human nature. If you are the best in your profession, then naturally you want to be compensated accordingly. Now some will say he signed a contract and that is your word of honor, but we all know contracts in the NFL are ripped up and redone all the time. Teams renegotiate contracts, ask players to take pay cuts, have players restructure, ect….so nobody should get their panties in a bunch over Zeke wanting more money before his rookie contract is up. I mean, it goes both ways, Hurns was just cut even though he still had one year left on his original contract.

So this all boils down to one thing, we did we draft a RB using a top 5 pick thinking he would be the best RB in the league if we were not prepared to make him the highest paid RB in the league? Serious question.

The team has said over and over the will sign Elliot. SJ even said the starting point would be Gurley numbers. Elliot is burning bridges
 

JD_KaPow

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We drafted Zeke with a top 5 pick because we felt he could be f'ing Superman behind this offensive line. Well, we were right, Zeke has been as good as advertised on the field. If not for the suspension, he would have lead the league in rushing every single year since being drafted. Now I am just talking about on the field here, he has been everything we though he would be and then some, he is a flat out beast and the best RB in the entire NFL.

Now Zeke aint stupid and he has realized that if he is the best RB in the NFL, then he needs to be the highest paid RB in the NFL. This should not have come as a surprise to anybody, its human nature. If you are the best in your profession, then naturally you want to be compensated accordingly. Now some will say he signed a contract and that is your word of honor, but we all know contracts in the NFL are ripped up and redone all the time. Teams renegotiate contracts, ask players to take pay cuts, have players restructure, ect….so nobody should get their panties in a bunch over Zeke wanting more money before his rookie contract is up. I mean, it goes both ways, Hurns was just cut even though he still had one year left on his original contract.

So this all boils down to one thing, we did we draft a RB using a top 5 pick thinking he would be the best RB in the league if we were not prepared to make him the highest paid RB in the league? Serious question.
I guess I just don't see the same guy everyone else does. Zeke has one (1) 40-yard run and three (3) 30-yard runs in the last two years. He's not an exceptional receiver. He is very durable, the flip-side of which is that he's seen a ton of use. He's a very good high-volume player, and that has a ton of value, but I sure don't see "Superman" out there on the field. I don't see a guy who makes me say, "Man, I thought DeMarco Murray was good, but this guy is on another level!" He's in the mix with several other guys in the argument for best RB. But people throw around terms like Superman and "generational talent," and that's not what I see out on the field.

The other thing is that no matter what you think about him, the draft pick we used is completely irrelevant to the decisions being made now. That pick is gone. And whatever reasons were behind making that pick matter not one bit today. For the record, I think they were in win-now mode with Romo getting older and weren't worrying about the second contract.
 

kskboys

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My opinions are just opinions. But it’s not coincidence that the facts generally support my opinions because I don’t base many opinions on just my emotional reaction to something.

Short yardage/goal line is one area where there’s an actual significant differentiation between RBs. Even then, the differentiation is not all that statistically significant. And even when you’re better than most at it, you can still get beat by it the way we did in the playoffs on 4th and 1 with the game on the line against the Rams.
Your opinion in this case is not based on fact. Need to do more research. I know, I know, all the talk shows are screaming that RB's aren't important and that they're a dime a dozen and you can find good ones on the street. Problem is, none of that is true. Don't base your opinions on talk show hosts, they're paid to entertain.

You can always get beat in the playoffs no matter how good you are at something. Playoff teams have are playoff teams quite often because they have the personnel/game plan to shut down the other team's strengths. That does not compute to your strength being unimportant. That's a non sequitar.
 

kskboys

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I guess I just don't see the same guy everyone else does. Zeke has one (1) 40-yard run and three (3) 30-yard runs in the last two years. He's not an exceptional receiver. He is very durable, the flip-side of which is that he's seen a ton of use. He's a very good high-volume player, and that has a ton of value, but I sure don't see "Superman" out there on the field. I don't see a guy who makes me say, "Man, I thought DeMarco Murray was good, but this guy is on another level!" He's in the mix with several other guys in the argument for best RB. But people throw around terms like Superman and "generational talent," and that's not what I see out on the field.

The other thing is that no matter what you think about him, the draft pick we used is completely irrelevant to the decisions being made now. That pick is gone. And whatever reasons were behind making that pick matter not one bit today. For the record, I think they were in win-now mode with Romo getting older and weren't worrying about the second contract.
He is an exceptional receiver. You might want to check into this before proclaiming it. Zeke caught 77 passes this last season, which is the first season we've used him in that way. He proved that he is a very good receiver. It was already thought that he was, we simply didn't use that skillset.

Counting long runs is an extremely poor way to judge a RB's talent.
 

Toruk_Makto

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Because it was a bad decision.

You don't fix bad decisions Cy doubling down on them.
 

buybuydandavis

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Once again, stating opinion as fact.

There are actually very few RB's who provide the chain moving short yardage stuff. Several teams have been looking for one for years. We made this miscalculation once and it cost us a season.

Special players? No. I'm against paying Zeke a huge contract. However, those tough yards RB's are much harder to find.

Let me try to recap:
1) There are very few backs who provide the chain moving short yardage stuff that teams don't value enough.
2) Zeke is one of them.
3) But you don't want to pay him a huge contract.

So what's the alternative, if that's what he's demanding?

Though rare, because other teams don't value them enough, we should be able to find one cheaper than Zeke by outbidding for their services? A guy who's mainly a tough yardage back, but doesn't have some extras from Zeke, like breakaway potential?
 

kskboys

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Let me try to recap:
1) There are very few backs who provide the chain moving short yardage stuff that teams don't value enough.
2) Zeke is one of them.
3) But you don't want to pay him a huge contract.

So what's the alternative, if that's what he's demanding?

Though rare, because other teams don't value them enough, we should be able to find one cheaper than Zeke by outbidding for their services? A guy who's mainly a tough yardage back, but doesn't have some extras from Zeke, like breakaway potential?
Very tough choice. I'm afraid paying him a fortune would cost us dearly in the long run, but I'm also afraid we don't have enough w/o him. I'm not even pretending to have the answers, because I just don't know.
 

buybuydandavis

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Short yardage/goal line is one area where there’s an actual significant differentiation between RBs. Even then, the differentiation is not all that statistically significant.

Can you point to data to justify that claim?

I'd like to see that data.
 

Aerolithe_Lion

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Very tough choice. I'm afraid paying him a fortune would cost us dearly in the long run, but I'm also afraid we don't have enough w/o him. I'm not even pretending to have the answers, because I just don't know.

If you pay him and you don't win, you'll never know what was. At least you'll know one way or the other if you pay him
 

rnr_honeybadger

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Zeke was drafted to make a run for the SB with Romo. No one expected Romo to play like an idiot in that Seattle pre-season game and put himself in harms way. No one expected Dak to come in and help drive this team to an NFC East title and a berth in the playoffs.
 

JD_KaPow

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He is an exceptional receiver. You might want to check into this before proclaiming it. Zeke caught 77 passes this last season, which is the first season we've used him in that way. He proved that he is a very good receiver. It was already thought that he was, we simply didn't use that skillset.

Counting long runs is an extremely poor way to judge a RB's talent.
He's not an exceptional receiver by any stretch, or at least he hasn't shown it. And I did check into it. Yes, he had volume: we all agree that he gets plenty of volume. But his ypc was mediocre (7.4) because most of the receptions were dumpoffs, advanced metrics have him as a poor receiver, and while he had a few nice screens, the eye test doesn't support the idea that he's "exceptional" either--that is, unless you don't watch other teams enough to see the truly exceptional pass-catching backs in action.

Zeke is a very good and very durable running back. There's a ton of value in that. But aside from volume, he's simply not head-and-shoulders above the other top RBs in the league. He doesn't have (or at least show) breakaway speed, he isn't a game-changing weapon in the passing game.
 

kskboys

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He's not an exceptional receiver by any stretch, or at least he hasn't shown it. And I did check into it. Yes, he had volume: we all agree that he gets plenty of volume. But his ypc was mediocre (7.4) because most of the receptions were dumpoffs, advanced metrics have him as a poor receiver, and while he had a few nice screens, the eye test doesn't support the idea that he's "exceptional" either--that is, unless you don't watch other teams enough to see the truly exceptional pass-catching backs in action.

Zeke is a very good and very durable running back. There's a ton of value in that. But aside from volume, he's simply not head-and-shoulders above the other top RBs in the league. He doesn't have (or at least show) breakaway speed, he isn't a game-changing weapon in the passing game.
He has breakaway speed and is a game changing weapon in the passing game.

If you're using advanced metrics to make your statement, you should not then turn around and accuse someone of not watching football. I'd call that hypocrisy.

I'm not sure you're aware that the YPC of a RB is different than the YPC of a WR. McCaffrey was at 8.1. Barkley 7.9, James White 8.6, Dion Lewis 6.8. You're acting as if there's some huge monster of a difference. If it were rushing yards, that would be a bigger difference, but in passing you have to also consider what type of routes are being run and how well the O plan gets players out of the passing zone.
 

JD_KaPow

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He has breakaway speed and is a game changing weapon in the passing game.
Why doesn't he show it, then? Where are the explosive plays that would indicate breakaway speed? How does he change the game (whatever that means) in the passing game?

If you claim the team doesn't take advantage of those skills, then why would they pay a premium for things they're not going to take advantage of? You make these statements, but where's the evidence on the field?
If you're using advanced metrics to make your statement, you should not then turn around and accuse someone of not watching football. I'd call that hypocrisy.
Huh? I use both. As anyone should if they want to talk intelligently on a subject.
I'm not sure you're aware that the YPC of a RB is different than the YPC of a WR. McCaffrey was at 8.1. Barkley 7.9, James White 8.6, Dion Lewis 6.8. You're acting as if there's some huge monster of a difference. If it were rushing yards, that would be a bigger difference, but in passing you have to also consider what type of routes are being run and how well the O plan gets players out of the passing zone.
Dion Lewis hasn't been good for a while. Barkley wasn't great efficiency-wise last year. The others were over a yard oer catch better than Zeke last year. So were David Johnson and Alvin Kamara and Todd Gurley and James Conner and Melvin Gordon. Elite pass-catching backs have ypcs better than 8,5, not 7.4.

Now, Zeke was over 10 his first two years, on low volumes with a very long reception each season. The long catches, like the long runs, went away last year. Are they gone for good? I don't know, but it's a disconcerting sign.
 

Idgit

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Your opinion in this case is not based on fact. Need to do more research. I know, I know, all the talk shows are screaming that RB's aren't important and that they're a dime a dozen and you can find good ones on the street. Problem is, none of that is true. Don't base your opinions on talk show hosts, they're paid to entertain.

You can always get beat in the playoffs no matter how good you are at something. Playoff teams have are playoff teams quite often because they have the personnel/game plan to shut down the other team's strengths. That does not compute to your strength being unimportant. That's a non sequitar.

I don’t watch talk shows. But if they’re looking at how readily you can fill the RB position outside of the first round and that it makes sense to do it, they have it right.
 
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